Liverpool FC Forum

[maypaxvobiscum]

Pelligrino, Itandje, Paletta, Morientes, Bellamy, Sissoko, Aurellio, Baragan, Kuyt, Fowler, Voronin, Kromkamp, Josemi, Nunez, Leto, Pennant (in many peoples opinion) Padelli, Zenden, Gonzalez. What's it prove?

to be fair, some of those were brought in on a free transfer. Some were subsequently sold for a profit (eg Bellamy, Sissoko)

Free transfer? Don't these players get wages then? Surely we have to pay to keep them so their not free. Alls it means is we didn't give any money to their previous club and if sides aren't prepared to offer a 26 year old (just coming into his prime) a new contract then he surely isn't good enough. Fowler and Zenden were frees and both past it so why on earth did we waste wages on them?

I was chuffed to see Fowler back, but I didn't see the sense in it unless he was going to be playing every game or given a four year deal. Neither happened so it was just a waste of wages.

fowler played a massive role thats why he earned another contract after his first. you cant deny that fowler played his role well man come on he scored many important goals and was a huge figure in the dressing room

Fowler played his role, no doubt. But that was 10 years ago.

Fowler had no place in the squad second time round.

you do not know what ur talking about.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

it's a personal opinion LFC2007.... you think Benitez is a great manager. It's an opinion, that's all, and because it's an opinion it's personal therefore not everyone is going to agree.

[LFC2007]

Now you know why I think you're clueless 

[RedBlood]

Pelligrino, Itandje, Paletta, Morientes, Bellamy, Sissoko, Aurellio, Baragan, Kuyt, Fowler, Voronin, Kromkamp, Josemi, Nunez, Leto, Pennant (in many peoples opinion) Padelli, Zenden, Gonzalez. What's it prove?

i wouldnt put sissoko in there he was very good for us and we got a profit when we sold him, plus pennant is a good player not great but he has his uses, auerillo is a good player and will show that if he can stay fit
the thing is benitez never over spends he always makes sure he can make the money back if a player does not succed

Sissoko was a waste of time IMO (after his eye injury granted) his passing and confidence faded completely and whether we make a profit or not doesn't matter. We made a profit on Michael Owen yet people complain about it, again it doesn't work both ways.

I like Pennant, I simplely put him in the list because most on here don't rate the lad.

Aurellio, I've seen one good game from him in nearly two years. Arsenal at home last March, Crouch's hattrick. Other than that nothing. One good goal against Bolton isn't up to it considering the amount of free kicks and shots he has, and especially not for the "so called" ability and technique he has.

But I wasn't looking to single people out, I was simpely countering those who wanted to list Houllier's bad signings. People seem rather keen to slaughter Cisse yet then talk about Aurellio being injured. Was it only me who noticed Cisse suffer a broken leg then? Must of been. Again I wouldn't class Ziege or Barmby as bad buys (maybe not world stars but I wouldn't class them as bad) but I didn't mention it (until now) because I wasn't going to start talking about indiuivals from the "houllier bad signing list"

but auerillo was bought on a free and ciise was bought as a record signing and hailed as the missing link by houllier so to compare the two is a bit silly mate

[redtrader74]

Pelligrino, Itandje, Paletta, Morientes, Bellamy, Sissoko, Aurellio, Baragan, Kuyt, Fowler, Voronin, Kromkamp, Josemi, Nunez, Leto, Pennant (in many peoples opinion) Padelli, Zenden, Gonzalez. What's it prove?

Sissoko was not a failure, he did a job for us, the team out grew him, then was sold on for a profit.

Aurelio doing well in the current run, and far too early for anyone to dismiss, especially considering his injuries.

Fowler?? the reason for buying him was not solely football related, its well documented.

Bellamy again, did a job for a year nothing spectacular but no disaster, he was all we could afford at the time, and was sold on for a profit.

Pennant? you've shown your love for him in another thread, so why list him amongst failures, now you're using other peoples opinions that you don't agree with to beat RAfa with ffs 

Personally i don't get this comparing Houllier/Rafa rubbish every other week, GH had his successes, and kept us afloat on the trophy front but the facts are he didn't win us a big one. The dynamics of the league have changed massively since those days, as has our standing in the transfer market, and as has the price inflation of players, 11m for a player 6years ago (DiouF) is probably in todays money nearer 18-19m (Torres).

[bigmick]

I've been one of Rafa's staunchest critics, but I honestly can't beleive people compare him to Houllier. FFS the Spaniard is in a different league, even when he's Rafa styling!! If Rafa left tomorrow, whoever took over could use the bunch of players he's been left with and have us right up there next season. Houllier on the other hand left Rafa with a heap of dross. Absolutely no comparison in my book, the only really poor signing the manager has made is Kuyt, and even then at least the's a trier and is doing a job for the team on the right.

When you compare him to the likes of Diouf and Diao, he looks like the bargain of the century.

[laza]

What manager hasnt bought a lemon, Ferguson has one of best records in recent time and his list of lemons are mile long, probably got a whole of team of dud goalkeepers on the books, such is the game

I say one of Rafa's biggest failures was Morientes but who would have thought that considering his pedigree on continent. On other side of coin im sure no one would have thought Torres would have been such a huge success straight up

The difference between Rafa and Houllier though for me  he proven to offload his poor signings as quickly as possible

[holylamb2006]

When you compare him to the likes of Diouf and Diao, he looks like the bargain of the century

Never really thought about it but yer Rafa has bought better players than Houllier by a fair bit .

[LFC2007]

FFS the Spaniard is in a different league, even when he's Rafa styling!!

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I've been one of Rafa's staunchest critics, but I honestly can't beleive people compare him to Houllier. FFS the Spaniard is in a different league, even when he's Rafa styling!! If Rafa left tomorrow, whoever took over could use the bunch of players he's been left with and have us right up there next season. Houllier on the other hand left Rafa with a heap of dross. Absolutely no comparison in my book, the only really poor signing the manager has made is Kuyt, and even then at least the's a trier and is doing a job for the team on the right.

When you compare him to the likes of Diouf and Diao, he looks like the bargain of the century.

Alright mick so you're saying that whoever takes over tommorrow won't have dross? Intandje, Aurellio, Kuyt, Voronin, Kewell (houllier's signing) to name a few.

Benitez has brought just as much (if not more) dross to this club. Some people seem to hold seem to think we can't criticise his transfers for bringing Torres and Mascheranho just like certain people think he can't be criticised because he won us the European Cup. That's bollox. He deserves criticism whenever he up and far to often he's up in transfers.

Next to the fella who said Houllier never won us a big one...Houllier's first four years he'd won us 4 major trophies...UEFA Cup, FA Cup and two league cups. I don't care how you try and decorate it, four trophies are better than two when they're all cup competitions. Also people say it was harder to win the European Cup, well that's total bollox as well. The only trophy we were playing for in the last couple of months of the 05 season was the European Cup. Houllier was still fighting for the FA Cup as well as the UEFA and managed to win both. People complain about Benitez having to put up with Houllier's dross what about the dross Houllier started out with...James, Babb, Harkness, Staunton, an unfit Redknapp, a McManaman who couldn't wait to off (similar to Owen under Benitez which is always raved about) Paul Ince trying to run the club and a few other players. Sticking with Houllier's first four seasons he managed to get us eight points behind the winners of the league, Benitez has only managed nine.

Houllier loves this club a sight lot more than Benitez does and far to many people on here forget what Houllier went through for this club and what he achieved while he was here. Well you lot continue to forget that it was down to Houllier why we were in the Champions League giving Benitez the chance to win it in 05. You lot continue to forget that it was Houllier who signed Hyypia, Smicer and Cisse (the penalty goalscorers in Istanbul) You lot continue to forget that it was Houllier who signed Dudek (the man who saved two penalities in Istanbul allowing us to win) You lot continue to forget that it was Houllier who gave Gerrard his debut. You lot continue to forget that it was Houllier who had a heart opportation because of how much time and effort he put into this club. You forget, I won't. This club has alot to be thankful for from Houllier. He may of up along the way, more times than he should of, but so has this man you now all class as a genius and how many of you laughed at the UEFA Cup success in 2001 eh. Not one of you I bet, you were all over the moon because we'd won it now it's not important. Well Mr Shankly as well eh, he only managed an UEFA Cup, how Mr Bill Shankly must of been eh folks Disgraceful some of you are, trying to constantly belittle Houllier's achievements for this club.

[LFC2007]

I don't care how you try and decorate it, four trophies are better than two when they're all cup competitions.

We may aswell trade a European cup for five Johnstone's Paint trophies then 

[VamosRafa]

Interesting comparison. I think the best way to judge would be to look at the squads they inherited, and the problems they solved. Houllier basically sured up Evans' shaky defence with Henchoz, Babbel, and Hypia, and later on with Riise and Finnnan. He bought us a great holding midfielder in Didi, he was gifted stevie G, astutely signed Mcallister, and had Owen,Fowler and Carra from the youth ranks.

Unfortunately Rafa has had no youngsters who have come and established themselves in the first team. He inherited Houlliers solid defense (Carra, Finnan, Riise, Hypia) which he has added to with Agger and Arbeloa and has only cemented the central midfield with purchases such as Alonso, Masha etc who have filled Didi's shoes. Torres (after 3 seasons of waiting under Rafa) has finally filled Owen's role as the top class striker, but we still have no quality signings who have cemented their place as a 2nd striker or winger. Cisse, Baros, Smicer, Barmby, Diouf, Pongolle have been replaced with Kuyt Benayoun, Pennant, Voronin, Bellamy, Garcia, Crouch, non of whom are good enough to start week in week out for us:(

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I don't care how you try and decorate it, four trophies are better than two when they're all cup competitions.

We may aswell trade a European cup for five Johnstone's Paint trophies then 

it'd help if we were in the contention to win that trophy. If we were then I'd want us to win it, and certainly wouldn't laugh it off a few years down the line.

[LFC2007]

I've been one of Rafa's staunchest critics, but I honestly can't beleive people compare him to Houllier. FFS the Spaniard is in a different league, even when he's Rafa styling!! If Rafa left tomorrow, whoever took over could use the bunch of players he's been left with and have us right up there next season. Houllier on the other hand left Rafa with a heap of dross. Absolutely no comparison in my book, the only really poor signing the manager has made is Kuyt, and even then at least the's a trier and is doing a job for the team on the right.

When you compare him to the likes of Diouf and Diao, he looks like the bargain of the century.

Houllier loves this club a sight lot more than Benitez does
and far to many people on here forget what Houllier went through for this club and what he achieved while he was here. Well you lot continue to forget that it was down to Houllier why we were in the Champions League giving Benitez the chance to win it in 05. You lot continue to forget that it was Houllier who signed Hyypia, Smicer and Cisse (the penalty goalscorers in Istanbul) You lot continue to forget that it was Houllier who signed Dudek (the man who saved two penalities in Istanbul allowing us to win) You lot continue to forget that it was Houllier who gave Gerrard his debut. You lot continue to forget that it was Houllier who had a heart opportation because of how much time and effort he put into this club.

That's why Rafa stayed with his team at the time of his father's death.

[Kharhaz]

Disgraceful some of you are, trying to constantly belittle Houllier's achievements for this club.

Thats not the case at all, your trying to prove that Houllier is on a comparison with Rafa. He isnt. For many reasons, be it transfers, tactics whatever. The fact is Houllier, had the security and financial muscle to build a team, rafa hasnt. He has had to make do with wheeling and dealing, bringing in the free transfers, signing top players while accepting a wage drop. Your arguments are failing. Rafa has been at a major disadvantage compared to houllier and you seem intent on proving otherwise.