Liverpool FC Forum

[Bad Bob]

Also, I think they are (would be) fearful of doing such a thing because of the potential backlash from the fans.

I dont think so. I think although a lot of fans are supporting rafa, as for now he is Liverpools manager, I also think many would say yes, time for a change. The booing when Torres went off. Its surprised me how this hasnt been taken into consideration. The booing was directly at the manager, and the reactions of Torres and Gerrard spoke volumes.

No I dont think the rafa leaving would be so much a problem, the big problem could be the replacement.

In fairness, most of the booing seemed to be coming from the Brum fans and it was directed at Ngog--the pantomime villain for that lot after his dive for the penalty at Anfield which robbed them of a victory in December.  With that said, it makes Rafa's decision even dafter.  The kid's green enough as it is.  How do you expect him to keep his composure and stick the ball in the net when most of the stadium jumps all over him every time he touches the ball.

[Benny The Noon]

It's also interesting how not a single one of you is yet to name a viable suitor that is up to the task of running this rat infested ship; one that will require little to no funds to land the title, or even to usurp the current top four, not to mention the likes of City who will be intent on spending at least another 100 million come the summer.

Emerald it's just as interesting to me how not one of you (hate to use pro/anti terminology) seems to EVER be willing to acknowledge any of the mistakes (see below) Rafa has made over the course of this season. It's like you (and a few others) are happy to gloss over them NO MATTER WHAT. Yesterday's substitution of Torres is a prime example. Depsite the exasperation on the faces of our two best players, despite the fact we drew a game we desperately needed to win and despite the fact it was Torres's replacement (Ngog) who missed three golden chances, I still have to read how 'we played much better once the sub was made', and 'Torres body language was all wrong from the start'.

Forget the owners and the money and the other stuff you would normally shift the debate towards for a moment. I'm not belittling them but I'd love it if you (and Benny, Lando + anyone else who still feels Rafa is the man for the job) would please address the following areas in debate. To be honest I think the failure to even acknowledge Rafa's failings in terms of selection of personnel (based on what he has), tactics on match days, substitutions and perhaps most of all, our depressing style of football this season by some of the posters on this board is as much to blame for the arguments that go on as anything else you could point your finger at.

1/ Rafa's substitutions. Always so late in the game, often he has failed to use them all in matches this season despite the fact we have desperately needed to win them. How many times has he brought on a skill player with 6-7 minutes left in a game we need to win? I mean what's the point? It's nonsensical at times.

2/ Sticking with players who are so clearly struggling for form. Usual suspects Lucas, Insua and Kuyt spring to mind but Ngog played a long stretch this season as an impotent replacement for Torres while Babel sat on the bench chewing his finger nails.

3/ A complete reluctance to try something different. We've plodded on ALL SEASON with the same ideas. The two defensive midfielders, playing Gerrard in the hole despite the fact it only seems to work for him there when TORRES IS PLAYING AHEAD OF HIM. Playing one up front 95% of the time when we are struggling to score goals, unwilling to give a youngster like Pachecho a game when all else seems to be failing.

4/ Injuries - This one does my head in the most. Please comment on the injury problems suffered by our rivals this season. The mancs played a Champions League game earlier this season with no centre-halves (they won the game 3-0), they have lost Vidic and Ferdinand for much pretty much a whole season between them, Hargreaves hasn't played, Rafael has struggled and Owen is lost for the season + Van De Sar has missed chunks. Arsenal have just lost Gallas and Fabregas (who has been in and out all year), Van Persie has missed most of the year, Eduardo has been out, Rosicky has missed time, same goes Almunia and there only fit forward for a few weeks was Arshavin, they have been so desperate Sol Campbell has been playing centre-half! Chelsea have lost Essien for the season, had the African Nations Cup to contend with, Carvallho has missed time, Ashley Cole is out and Joe Cole hasn't been on it all year. TELL ME OUR SITUATION HAS BEEN ANY WORSE THAN ANYBODY ELSE'S. IT HASN'T.

5/ Last point. Aquilani. Need I say anymore.

Scott this is a brilliant post mate, and you are absolutely on the money with your assertion that the refusal of some parties to accept even the glaringly obvious has destroyed the board as a decent way to spend a few minutes. Not only will some of them not accept what is as plain as the nose on their face, but they abuse people while they're denying it.

All your points are salient, but I definately wouldn't hold your breath on getting any answers or any concessions. I sense some frustration in your posts. You'll get used to it are the only words of comfort I can offer  .

It was a very good post but you destroyed it by accusing the people who support Rafa of destroying the board - i think maybe you should take a look in the mirror on the odd occasions and have a little look at yourself and the way you post towards people as a pointer towards why things havent been great on here lately .

Your being as bad as the people your accusing

Oh behave yourself Benny, what are you talking about lad? I don't at any stage of this post 'accuse people who support Rafa of destroying the board'. There seems to be a perception on here the ant's (or whatever you wanna call em) are responsible for this place being miserable, argumentative, inflammatory etc. I only said that the failure to acknowledge/address some of the many problems we have had this season by posters (who are still 100% behind the manager) "is as much to blame for the arguments that go on as anything else you could point your finger at". The point I was making is this failure to acknowledge Rafa's mistakes this season gets other posters (generally those who want the manager out) goats up. Was all I was saying.

As for my behaviour/tone recently? i'm not sure what you're talking about mate. I might call Big Niall a miserable tosspot from time to time (sorry Niall but you're a miserable bugger!) but that aside, I don't know what you're getting at?

All said and done I'd love to hear any comments on the 5 areas i've listed dude.

The post was aimed at Mick not yourself Scott and will reply to your inital post when i am at home .

[Sir Roger]

Rafa is dead man walking
I dont think it matters what happens this season. The damage is done and his gamble hasnt paid off.
The knives are out and its just a matter of time

[shawnk]

He did promise us at least fourth place this season some time ago and seems like he cant keep his promise. Wasn't actually surprised the way it turns out as we were consistently playing badly. Only himself didn't notice that.

Actually glad he said that as I expected it to turn out this way as he's very predictable and rigid, unfortunately. Last nail in the coffin for himself. He should do the honorable thing unlike the owners.

[lakes10]

Rafa has only ever been a few games away from getting sacked all year.
some of the stuff he has said in the press about his contract i was shocked the did not sack him then.
this is what happens when the owners live overseas and dont even know the results the team id having.

[Igor Zidane]

Oh i get it now , those who support the manager and the manager himself are the ones destroying LFC . Talk about re-writing history . Get over yourselves and get your priorities right ffs . Yeh it was never down to the owners at all ,they had feck all to do with it .It's all Rafa's fault . get yer fecking heads out of the sand . Get of the internet forums and get behind the protests ffs.

[Igor Zidane]

Ok i've read this thread from start to finish . I would hope that some of our respected posters would do the same . Then come back to me and tell me that OUR MANAGER deserves abit more respect for what he has done for our club . Come back and tell me that it was a feckin fluke and it was Houlllier and his team that desreves the feckin credit .  Shame on you ?

[Greavesie]

christ I've just seen a bit of his conference today, has anyone got a video of it? or a written script?

[account deleted by request]

Ok i thread this thread    from start to finish . I would hope that some of our respected posters would do the same . Then come back to me and tell me that OUR MANAGER deserves abit more respect for what he has done for our club . Come back and tell me that it was a feckin fluke and it was Houlllier and his team that desreves the feckin credit .  Shame on you ?

Not sure if that was aimed in my direction Igor, but I never said it was a fluke, just that the players he was left were a lot better than they have been given credit for. You don't win the CL with a bad manager..... OR bad players.

Like Rafa ,Houllier had built up a team with some glaring deficiencies, but with some top quality players too. The last season under Houllier those players had not played their hearts out because imo they had lost belief in the manager, JUST AS IMO OUR PLAYERS HAVE NOW.

Similarly now with Rafa we have a choice, bring in six or seven new faces to revitalise the team, or change manager and accomplish the same thing. As we won't probably have the money to buy six or seven top class players, its easier cheaper and much more effective in the long run to change manager.

Just as Rafa will deserve credit for the good players he has brought to the club, Houllier deserves credit for the likes of Hyypia, Hamann, Gerrard,Carra, Riise, Finnan, Kewell(I liked him), Biscan (just for you )etc etc that helped us win the CL and FA cup.

The simple fact is that since those players have left (excluding Gerrard and Carra), we have won nothing mate, even though we have spent a fortune on replacements. 4 years without a trophy is too long for a club like Liverpool and after the money we have spent to be in 6th place and 16 points behind the THIRD best team in England is a fecking disgrace.

[Benny The Noon]

Ok i've read this thread from start to finish . I would hope that some of our respected posters would do the same . Then come back to me and tell me that OUR MANAGER deserves abit more respect for what he has done for our club . Come back and tell me that it was a feckin fluke and it was Houlllier and his team that desreves the feckin credit .  Shame on you ?

Thanks for that thread Igor - being in the stadium that night was the greatest night of my life

[account deleted by request]

christ I've just seen a bit of his conference today, has anyone got a video of it? or a written script?

Best I could find at the moment mate :-

Benitez: Liverpool needs new investment
07/04/2010 - 15:59:33

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez agrees with star striker Fernando Torres' frank assessment of his team's failings.

Torres has claimed that a spate of summer departures meant "everything got messed up" for the Reds this season.

Having begun the campaign among the favourites for the Barclays Premier League title, Liverpool are looking increasingly unlikely to even finish fourth.

A draw at Birmingham on Sunday has left them sixth, four points adrift of that all-important Champions League-qualifying position, having played a game more than both Manchester City in fourth and Tottenham in fifth.

Benitez concedes his squad need major investment this summer to force its way back among the title contenders.

The Spaniard said: "I agree with Fernando about a lot of things. He talks about it being a pity we finished with 86 points last year and we couldn't progress.

"We need to sign some players, we need to bring some money. We need an investor and then we can challenge in a better way.

"The players are working so hard and they feel they can do more.

"Fernando the other day (at Birmingham), he was feeling really tired. He was trying and the other players were trying but while we don't have the investor it will be difficult to go one step forward."

Benitez was speaking ahead of tomorrow's Europa League quarter-final second leg against Benfica at Anfield.

Liverpool trail 2-1 from the first meeting in Lisbon but the competition looks like their best hope of salvaging something from the season.

"We will try to do our best tomorrow to win," Benitez said.

"Hopefully we can balance the books this year.

"We need now to perform on the pitch and create a better situation for the new investors."

When asked whether he could elaborate on whether owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks have offered any indication that new investment might be imminent, Benitez avoided the question in familiar style.

He said: "I understand the players, we have to stick together and prepare for a Europa League game."

Liverpool lost just twice last season in finishing runners-up in the Premier League to Manchester United.

They hoped to build on that to win a first title in 20 years but they have lacked consistency throughout the campaign.

[account deleted by request]

Rafa's press conference video

[Greavesie]

cheers for that Saint

[tonyeh]

More Bollocks talk.

[Dundalk]

'We need now to perform on the pitch and create a better situation for the new investors'


Does he mean investors that are here already OR possible investors?