Liverpool FC Forum

[Emerald Red]

Clutching at straws there, saint. These games "should" be winnable, but the question is will we? It just seems when the chips are down in the league and we need to stand up and be counted, we always seem to fall flat. Realistically, we need to go on a run like we did last season at this time and win at least 10 or more on the trot to have any real chance or even be thinking of winning it. I can't honestly see that happening.

surely we can't. Teams like Man City, Everton, Pompey, Villa, Spurs ,West Ham have become even tougher to beat than before. 10 wins on the trot...............no chance.

Good to see people upbeat and ready for the new year.

Come on you reds

It's not about being upbeat, mate. It's about being realistic and simply accepting that we're out of it. It would take Arsenal and United to both hit a really bad patch and have a few losses and draws and for us to do as I said above and win about 10 in a row. We've dropped too many points in games where we should be winning. This is not title winning form no matter what perspective you look at it from. I'm sorry, but this is just how it is. We've been given chances and we're squandering them. That's not deserving of the title.

Putting the result to one side for a minute, I am a lot happier with our form today than I was against Derby.

We arn't out of it yet Emerald, I understand how disappointed you are mate but we are still in with a decent chance. We have played all of our dodgy away games except the "6 pointers" against the top 3. We just need to get something out of those. A tall order I know, but we CAN do it.

In the back of my mind, I'm quietly optimistic. But my pessimism outweighs it when gathering up the odds.

On a really positive note, I really feel strongly that we are now progressing to where we want and need to be. We are not far short off the final article that Rafa wants. I think you are right about needing this creative second striker now, and it's plainly obvious that we do. Rafa knows this. he's admitted as much recently when he spoke of match winners. When we find one or more of these, then we win the title. I'm certain of it. I feel our goal this season is to at least be no more than 6 points off the top. This will be the progress that we have all been crying out for when we were seemingly taking a step backwards in the league under Rafa after last season.

[Red Dotty]

Clutching at straws there, saint. These games "should" be winnable, but the question is will we? It just seems when the chips are down in the league and we need to stand up and be counted, we always seem to fall flat. Realistically, we need to go on a run like we did last season at this time and win at least 10 or more on the trot to have any real chance or even be thinking of winning it. I can't honestly see that happening.

surely we can't. Teams like Man City, Everton, Pompey, Villa, Spurs ,West Ham have become even tougher to beat than before. 10 wins on the trot...............no chance.

Good to see people upbeat and ready for the new year.

Come on you reds

It's not about being upbeat, mate. It's about being realistic and simply accepting that we're out of it. It would take Arsenal and United to both hit a really bad patch and have a few losses and draws and for us to do as I said above and win about 10 in a row. We've dropped too many points in games where we should be winning. This is not title winning form no matter what perspective you look at it from. I'm sorry, but this is just how it is. We've been given chances and we're squandering them. That's not deserving of the title.

Putting the result to one side for a minute, I am a lot happier with our form today than I was against Derby.

We arn't out of it yet Emerald, I understand how disappointed you are mate but we are still in with a decent chance. We have played all of our dodgy away games except the "6 pointers" against the top 3. We just need to get something out of those. A tall order I know, but we CAN do it.

In the back of my mind, I'm quietly optimistic. But my pessimism outweighs it when gathering up the odds.

On a really positive note, I really feel strongly that we are now progressing to where we want and need to be. We are not far short off the final article that Rafa wants. I think you are right about needing this creative second striker now, and it's plainly obvious that we do. Rafa knows this. he's admitted as much recently when he spoke of match winners. When we find one or more of these, then we win the title. I'm certain of it. I feel our goal this season is to at least be no more than 6 points off the top. This will be the progress that we have all been crying out for when we were seemingly taking a step backwards in the league under Rafa after last season.

There you go you are know full of Chrimbo spirit.

you will soon have us down to win the league buddy

YNWA

[mart]

For this week, we got 4 points, arsenal got 4 points, and utd got 3.

no worse than either, arsenal will slip up more, just hope man utd get stupid again

You can't depend on what these teams do. At the end of the day, it's all about what we do. We drew another game, that on paper, we should have won. United slipped up, so we needed to close the gap a little. We never. It's been the same old shyte for as long as I remember. We WON'T win the league when we do this. This is fact. A win today, with our game in hand, and it would have taken us withing 5 points of Arsenal. That puts pressure on them with us and United so close and breathing down their neck.

Arsenal may not even have a team in january

So thats the end of them

Only united to worry about really and we are only several points behind them with our game in hand

happy days

When Henry left, apparently they didn't have much of a team either. The African Nations lasts what - a month? How many league games can be played in a month? About 4 or 5 at most, right? So that's 4 or 5 games which they just have to dig out results. Arsenal have enough talent to do this. They can replace Adebayor with Eduardo, who looks as capable of any of getting goals for them. People are expecting some sort of dip in form from them because some of their players will go and play in this competition. It's not going to happen. In any case, it really doesn't matter. We have to just concentrate on our form, and at the moment we don't seem to have that killer instinct and that bit of luck required. For a start, we have to play United, Arsenal and Chelsea all away from home. If we manage to get maximum points in those three, then it will be a first and I will be extremely surprised. Alas, I can't ever see that happening when it is paramount that we do.

I dont think Adebayor will go to the African nations cup.
Its just Toure and Eboue that will go i think. That will give them some problems in defense as their backup is not great in defense. But its not like its a complete disaster for Arsenal.

[bigmick]

It's actually quite a good result given their home record but the simple fact of the matter is that quite good results really aren't good enough for us at the moment. Had we have beaten Birmingham, Blackburn, Reading etc etc then this would have been OK, but we didn't and it isn't. If the rols had been reversed and Man Utd were ten points behind or so and one of their rivals had lost out of the blue, would they have gone to Man City and won? You can't be certain of course, but my feeling is that they probably would have. The one thing you cna be absolutely certain of is that they would have risked losing in order to win the game. They would have had three up top for the last twenty minutes, would probably have pushed a centre half into midfield and allowed their attacking midfielder to bomb on and generally done whatever it took to win it. It was a win or bust game for me, and although we've got what appears to be a good result and were by all accounts a bit unlucky, it's still disappointing.

[Red Dotty]

It's actually quite a good result given their home record but the simple fact of the matter is that quite good results really aren't good enough for us at the moment. Had we have beaten Birmingham, Blackburn, Reading etc etc then this would have been OK, but we didn't and it isn't. If the rols had been reversed and Man Utd were ten points behind or so and one of their rivals had lost out of the blue, would they have gone to Man City and won? You can't be certain of course, but my feeling is that they probably would have. The one thing you cna be absolutely certain of is that they would have risked losing in order to win the game. They would have had three up top for the last twenty minutes, would probably have pushed a centre half into midfield and allowed their attacking midfielder to bomb on and generally done whatever it took to win it. It was a win or bust game for me, and although we've got what appears to be a good result and were by all accounts a bit unlucky, it's still disappointing.

So are you saying thats good or bad

[metalhead]

It's actually quite a good result given their home record but the simple fact of the matter is that quite good results really aren't good enough for us at the moment. Had we have beaten Birmingham, Blackburn, Reading etc etc then this would have been OK, but we didn't and it isn't. If the rols had been reversed and Man Utd were ten points behind or so and one of their rivals had lost out of the blue, would they have gone to Man City and won? You can't be certain of course, but my feeling is that they probably would have. The one thing you cna be absolutely certain of is that they would have risked losing in order to win the game. They would have had three up top for the last twenty minutes, would probably have pushed a centre half into midfield and allowed their attacking midfielder to bomb on and generally done whatever it took to win it. It was a win or bust game for me, and although we've got what appears to be a good result and were by all accounts a bit unlucky, it's still disappointing.

Agreed mick, I thought we played well, unlucky not to score, but bearing in mind we are playing against a side who hasn't lost yet at home so it was always going to be tough.

Its dissapointing to win the game, but 0-0 against Man city is a good result (who are fighting for top 4 too!).

Aurelio needs to stay fit, he was brilliant in the first half, better than Riise.

[Emerald Red]

It's actually quite a good result given their home record but the simple fact of the matter is that quite good results really aren't good enough for us at the moment. Had we have beaten Birmingham, Blackburn, Reading etc etc then this would have been OK, but we didn't and it isn't. If the rols had been reversed and Man Utd were ten points behind or so and one of their rivals had lost out of the blue, would they have gone to Man City and won? You can't be certain of course, but my feeling is that they probably would have. The one thing you cna be absolutely certain of is that they would have risked losing in order to win the game. They would have had three up top for the last twenty minutes, would probably have pushed a centre half into midfield and allowed their attacking midfielder to bomb on and generally done whatever it took to win it. It was a win or bust game for me, and although we've got what appears to be a good result and were by all accounts a bit unlucky, it's still disappointing.

So are you saying thats good or bad

It's neither good nor bad. It's just not what was required.

[lakes10]

I dont see the point of having 3 good sub and only use one with 10 mins left, when we all could see the sub needed to be on at around 60 mins.

[Red Dotty]

Just got this of LFC site

RAFA ON CITY AND TRANSFERS
Lee Brown 30 December 2007 
  Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez was happy with his side's performance against Manchester City, but was left frustrated that they didn't win despite creating 17 chances to score. 
The Reds became the first side to stop City scoring here in the league this season, but they were thwarted at the other end by some fine defending from Richard Dunne in particular.
 
"We are a little bit frustrated," said Rafa. "The players worked really hard, we had plenty of possession, controlled the game and had 17 attempts at goal.
 
"We played to win and we deserved to win against a team that has the best home record in the Premier League.
 
"I prefer to take the positives from this game and as a team we are playing really well."
 
A draw here leaves Liverpool ten points behind league leaders Arsenal, but Benitez says he isn't paying too much attention to the table at the moment.
 
"Three games ago people were saying it was impossible for us, but it's different now and we still have a lot of games to play," said Rafa.
 
"If we play like we did today we will win a lot of games so let's see what happens in the next few months."
 
A lack of cover at centre half meant that Alvaro Arbeloa had to partner Jamie Carragher there today and Rafa gave an indication that the Reds may be looking to bring in reinforcements during the January transfer window.
 
"We are working hard to find some solutions," Rafa explained. "I think we are close to some players, but until they sign you don't know.
 
"We are looking for players that will be good for us now and in the future."

[account deleted by request]

It's actually quite a good result given their home record but the simple fact of the matter is that quite good results really aren't good enough for us at the moment. Had we have beaten Birmingham, Blackburn, Reading etc etc then this would have been OK, but we didn't and it isn't. If the rols had been reversed and Man Utd were ten points behind or so and one of their rivals had lost out of the blue, would they have gone to Man City and won? You can't be certain of course, but my feeling is that they probably would have. The one thing you cna be absolutely certain of is that they would have risked losing in order to win the game. They would have had three up top for the last twenty minutes, would probably have pushed a centre half into midfield and allowed their attacking midfielder to bomb on and generally done whatever it took to win it. It was a win or bust game for me, and although we've got what appears to be a good result and were by all accounts a bit unlucky, it's still disappointing.

I think Rafa is too slow with his subs, everyone could see we needed fresh legs and fresh ideas if we were going to break City down. Yet he leaves it late and then only makes the one sub. Even Sven who we all know leaves it late with his subs used all three to try to change things.

To be fair to Rafa I don't think Alonso or Voronin would have made much difference, but maybe he could have stuck Babel up front instead of Kuyt or Torres, brought Riise on instead of Kewell and moved Aurelio up to left midfield.

I was surprised he left Finnan on as he looked absolutely knackered for the last 20mins, but unless we went three at the back or something I suppose he had to stay on.

If we had gambled and lost I think we could forget the league, at least with a draw it keeps faint hopes alive.

[Leonmc0708]

I dont see the point of having 3 good sub and only use one with 10 mins left, when we all could see the sub needed to be on at around 60 mins.

We could ?

We bossed the game, restricted City to one break and should have scored five but its Rafa's fault for not bringing a sub on ?

[account deleted by request]

Mancs fixtures

01/01/2008 - Manchester United v Birmingham City
12/01/2008 - Manchester United v Newcastle United
19/01/2008 - Reading v Manchester United
30/01/2008 - Manchester United v Portsmouth
02/02/2008 - Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester United
10/02/2008 - Manchester United v Manchester City
23/02/2008 - Newcastle United v Manchester United
01/03/2008 - Fulham v Manchester United
08/03/2008 - Manchester United v Bolton Wanderers
15/03/2008 - Derby County v Manchester United
22/03/2008 - Manchester United v Liverpool
29/03/2008 - Manchester United v Aston Villa
05/04/2008 - Middlesbrough v Manchester United
12/04/2008 - Manchester United v Arsenal
19/04/2008 - Blackburn Rovers v Manchester United
26/04/2008 - Chelsea v Manchester United
03/05/2008 - Manchester United v West Ham United
11/05/2008 - Wigan Athletic v Manchester United

They have still got some very difficult games and I think they will have one eye on the CL so you NEVER KNOW 

[account deleted by request]

I dont see the point of having 3 good sub and only use one with 10 mins left, when we all could see the sub needed to be on at around 60 mins.

We could ?

We bossed the game, restricted City to one break and should have scored five but its Rafa's fault for not bringing a sub on ?

Yes, I think most of us could see we needed fresh legs and a change Leon.

Nothing to do with blame it on Rafa, just using our options to the best advantage.

s@int
LFC Elite Member




Group: LFC Premium Members
Posts: 8267
Joined: April 2006  Posted: Dec. 30 2007,17:24   




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We need to make a change

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Just to show I am not just being "clever" after the event.

[JC_81]

I dont see the point of having 3 good sub and only use one with 10 mins left, when we all could see the sub needed to be on at around 60 mins.

We could ?

We bossed the game, restricted City to one break and should have scored five but its Rafa's fault for not bringing a sub on ?

Yes, I think most of us could see we needed fresh legs and a change Leon.

Nothing to do with blame it on Rafa, just using our options to the best advantage.

I take Leon's point.  We were doing everything right apart from put the ball in the net.  It just looked a matter of time before we'd score and for that reason I think Benitez was right not to make any changes until around the 70 minute mark.  By that time Kewell was clearly struggling and Babel was probably the right change.  But to be honest I'd probably have changed Kuyt around then too - either for Alonso and push Gerrard forward, or even for Voronin for something different.

But hey, we're all great managers in hindsight, it just wasn't to be.

[Leonmc0708]

I dont see the point of having 3 good sub and only use one with 10 mins left, when we all could see the sub needed to be on at around 60 mins.

We could ?

We bossed the game, restricted City to one break and should have scored five but its Rafa's fault for not bringing a sub on ?

Yes, I think most of us could see we needed fresh legs and a change Leon.

Nothing to do with blame it on Rafa, just using our options to the best advantage.

s@int
LFC Elite Member




Group: LFC Premium Members
Posts: 8267
Joined: April 2006  Posted: Dec. 30 2007,17:24   




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We need to make a change

---------------------------

Just to show I am not just being "clever" after the event.

Fairy muff.

I didnt see it though, from where I was stood it was right to keep the same people doing hte same things, which was everything BUT score.

I thought Torres looked tired for the record, wasnt his usual sharp best.