Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

anyway back on topic , all this talk of kuyt loosing possession and giving ball away and stopping attacks flowing doesnt seem to ring true , having watched him a bit more closely during the last number of games starting with manc game i have failed to see all this constant loosing the ball , sure he has had the odd bad touches and little flicks and passes he has tried havent come off but that is no more than anyone else , seen him most of the time either hold the ball up then pass it to either gerrard or xabi or back to right back or out to keane or torres . He seems to look to go forward when gets the ball and if nothing there just plays it simple and keeps possession , yeah he doesnt take the players on much but he knows he doesnt have the skill to do so , so just plays it simple or looks to play a ball that keeps possession . On the odd occasion he has taken someone on and sometimes gets past them and sometimes doesnt . He always seems to fill gaps when needed and the space he creates for torres and keane to run into are very good indeed as torres mentioned the other day . Yeah his lack of pace and skill let him down out there on the right but he isnt playing as a winger . He seems to be moving around and swapping with both keane and torres and that movement helped create that second goal on wed and i think thats what kuyt has over pennant . Where pennant has the pace he seems to me to lack that movement that i think rafa wants , the ability to interchange with torres and keane . As well as the fact the majority of pennants crosses seem to go high in the air which to me would be not much use to two strikers who like to attack the ball played in front of them .

[bigmick]

[Grow up.

You've had an apology ,what more do you want. Now leave it at that.[/quote]
James Igor is one of the good guys around here mate. Accept both the apology and the fact that the pair of you got off on the wrong foot and give it time, I'm sure you'll get on just fine.

Jeez when two good posters start falling out with each other that really does bring the discussion down.  Figuratively shake on it guys and give us more of the benefit of your insight, that's much more interesting.

[Leonmc0708]

[Grow up.

You've had an apology ,what more do you want. Now leave it at that.

James Igor is one of the good guys around here mate. Accept both the apology and the fact that the pair of you got off on the wrong foot and give it time, I'm sure you'll get on just fine.

Jeez when two good posters start falling out with each other that really does bring the discussion down.  Figuratively shake on it guys and give us more of the benefit of your insight, that's much more interesting.[/quote]
Shurrup yer Divvy

[Jimmy the Weasel]

[Grow up.

You've had an apology ,what more do you want. Now leave it at that.

James Igor is one of the good guys around here mate. Accept both the apology and the fact that the pair of you got off on the wrong foot and give it time, I'm sure you'll get on just fine.

Jeez when two good posters start falling out with each other that really does bring the discussion down.  Figuratively shake on it guys and give us more of the benefit of your insight, that's much more interesting.[/quote]
We've exchanged messages off the board, I had no intention of causing anyone problems and have posted 99.9% football since being on here, I felt I simply replied in kind.

Popes underpants.

(no hard feelings)

[bigmick]

[Grow up.

You've had an apology ,what more do you want. Now leave it at that.

James Igor is one of the good guys around here mate. Accept both the apology and the fact that the pair of you got off on the wrong foot and give it time, I'm sure you'll get on just fine.

Jeez when two good posters start falling out with each other that really does bring the discussion down.  Figuratively shake on it guys and give us more of the benefit of your insight, that's much more interesting.

Shurrup yer Divvy[/quote]
A bit too up me erse for me own good that time eh? 


S'fair enough, just occasionally I'm just a wee bit full of it, thanks for the heads up   

[account deleted by request]

That's good mate, Igor is a top bloke on here , one of the best and no one wants to be a Mr Grumpy except maybe Leon 

[Fo Dne]

Its simple mate, he loses possession to much. In games this season I've watched him lose the ball about 60%-70% of the time he's had it.

His passing is woeful and thats the most important thing at this level. If you can pass a ball and have a decent touch you can get away with it. Finnan did for years, but Kuyt really can't. His passing is woeful and it hinders the team, the fluidity and chances of other players receiving the ball in places where they can do damage.

But with players like Finnan and Hamann its simple. Its a simple pass, Finnan under pressure booted the ball forward, Hamann didnt, he really was class and coolness itself under pressure. Alonso also has given the ball away a lot. So has Gerrard. It seems to me that whatever Kuyt does its wrong. I dont dismiss your opinion at all, there are times when I watch Kuyt and think, why is he on the pitch? but there are times when I admire the guy for not giving up, bad performance or not, he still works. And I cant say the same for anyone else in the team, ANYONE. We all watch the same matches, we all see the same performances but you dont see Kuyt seeing his backside because the crowd dont love him, you dont see Kuyt seeing his backside because hes missed an easy chance, you dont see Kuyt seeing his backside because the team are not winning. What you do see is Kuyt working his backside off to make something happen, and in that, I respect the guy and would have him in my side everytime.

Look, I'm never going to sit here and say Kuyt is anything less than 100% committed to the cause. I'm never going to sit here and say that he doesn't cover an immense amount of gound and I'd never sit here and question the fact that even when its not going his way he doesn't hide one bit. He still gives it everything, but its not enough. Granted if every other player had his attitude we'd be unbeatable, but his attitude isn't enough alone. He's a decent player at best and its only due to the things above that make him decent rather than poor.

You say Gerrard and Xabi lose the ball, am sorry lad but thats rubbish. Every player loses the ball at some point but Kuyt does it a hell of a lot more than anyone else with maybe the exception of Arbeloa and its not good enough, no matter how hard he tries to win it back, if he didn't lose it in the first place he wouldn't have to go running around like a headless chicken. I was sitting there the other week with a mate watching the game and my mate says "I wonder what Kuyt's pass completion rate is" then it had me thinking, when does he ever complete a forward pass and how many times does he actually lose the ball before trying to make the pass? Its rediculous. Against Liege (not a great side) I actually counted 6 times in a row he completely lost the ball, the first four were due to bad touches and taking to long (IE dilly dallying on the ball like Murphy used to get called alsorts for) and the last two were hospital balls, one of which was dangerous.

Its not an uncommon thing where he's concerned either. Its not like, oh its just a one off. You don't sit there thinking, I don't mind him doing that once or twice because its very unusual. (In the same way even though Torres missed a sitter the other night you know he'd normally bury that chance) which is why he didn't get critisism.

Kuyt is very average in alot of area's of the game, very good in very few area's and excellent in only a couple. He's never in a million years good enough to be in this side every week if we are to seriously challenge for the league title. If he is to play every week (which he shouldn't) it should be ahead of Keane if Rafa is that desperate to include him.

[Fo Dne]

1. anyway back on topic , all this talk of kuyt loosing possession and giving ball away and stopping attacks flowing doesnt seem to ring true ,

2. As well as the fact the majority of pennants crosses seem to go high in the air which to me would be not much use to two strikers who like to attack the ball played in front of them .

1. You're seriously having a laugh?

2. Torres and Keane like to attack crosses? What are you on about now lad? They both like the ball into feet and in behind if anything, neither of them are what I'd even call very good at attacking crosses.

Also, to pick faults with  Pennant crossing of the ball is complete and utter . He's probably one of the best in the league. The area's he puts the ball into are crying out for the ball to be attacked but as seen as we don't have those kind of strikers its a catch 22. It used to really me off over the last few seasons watch him beat a man, swing a great ball in, only to watch Kuyt, Bellamy and the likes standing on the edge of the box looking puzzled as to what they are meant to do when a wingers throwing in a cross that's got on the ball "touch me and I have goal writtin all over it".

[Leonmc0708]

1. anyway back on topic , all this talk of kuyt loosing possession and giving ball away and stopping attacks flowing doesnt seem to ring true ,

2. As well as the fact the majority of pennants crosses seem to go high in the air which to me would be not much use to two strikers who like to attack the ball played in front of them .

1. You're seriously having a laugh?

2. Torres and Keane like to attack crosses? What are you on about now lad? They both like the ball into feet and in behind if anything, neither of them are what I'd even call very good at attacking crosses.

Also, to pick faults with  Pennant crossing of the ball is complete and utter . He's probably one of the best in the league. The area's he puts the ball into are crying out for the ball to be attacked but as seen as we don't have those kind of strikers its a catch 22. It used to really me off over the last few seasons watch him beat a man, swing a great ball in, only to watch Kuyt, Bellamy and the likes standing on the edge of the box looking puzzled as to what they are meant to do when a wingers throwing in a cross that's got on the ball "touch me and I have goal writtin all over it".

Your wrong stu mate.

His crosses are woeful.

At Birmingham he looked decent as they had big strapping lads who went in high or late at the bakc post.

As you said yourself our players like it to feet or in front of the defender to un on, NOT in the air.

Pennant crosses are always in the air, more often than not over every fuc.ker.

[GYBS]

pennant one of the best crossers around ? ! Now your just on a wind up ? His crossing for the majority of the time is woeful and most of the time he doesnt think and just lumps it into the box . And as for watching pennant beat a man and swing a decent cross in ? When the hell did that happen on a consistent basis ? I never saw it and i bet you not many other people saw it . And yes keane and torres do like ball to feet weather that is a short ball or a ball played across the box from out wide along the ground ie just like keanes goal on wed and a couple of torress goals last season namely two in one of his hat tricks . Pennant never showed the game intelligence to play the variety of balls into the box , they were mainly either overhit , straight at the keeper or hitting the first man .seen kuyt and torres and keane all put in better crosses than pennant can do .

[Fo Dne]

pennant one of the best crossers around ? ! Now your just on a wind up ? His crossing for the majority of the time is woeful and most of the time he doesnt think and just lumps it into the box . And as for watching pennant beat a man and swing a decent cross in ? When the hell did that happen on a consistent basis ? I never saw it and i bet you not many other people saw it . And yes keane and torres do like ball to feet weather that is a short ball or a ball played across the box from out wide along the ground ie just like keanes goal on wed and a couple of torress goals last season namely two in one of his hat tricks . Pennant never showed the game intelligence to play the variety of balls into the box , they were mainly either overhit , straight at the keeper or hitting the first man .seen kuyt and torres and keane all put in better crosses than pennant can do .

Dirk Kuyt... He works hard!

[GYBS]

well debated fodne nice to see you ignore the points again - but must say you have managed to post a few posts without insults so well done you

[Fo Dne]

1. anyway back on topic , all this talk of kuyt loosing possession and giving ball away and stopping attacks flowing doesnt seem to ring true ,

2. As well as the fact the majority of pennants crosses seem to go high in the air which to me would be not much use to two strikers who like to attack the ball played in front of them .

1. You're seriously having a laugh?

2. Torres and Keane like to attack crosses? What are you on about now lad? They both like the ball into feet and in behind if anything, neither of them are what I'd even call very good at attacking crosses.

Also, to pick faults with  Pennant crossing of the ball is complete and utter . He's probably one of the best in the league. The area's he puts the ball into are crying out for the ball to be attacked but as seen as we don't have those kind of strikers its a catch 22. It used to really me off over the last few seasons watch him beat a man, swing a great ball in, only to watch Kuyt, Bellamy and the likes standing on the edge of the box looking puzzled as to what they are meant to do when a wingers throwing in a cross that's got on the ball "touch me and I have goal writtin all over it".

Your wrong stu mate.

His crosses are woeful.

At Birmingham he looked decent as they had big strapping lads who went in high or late at the bakc post.

As you said yourself our players like it to feet or in front of the defender to un on, NOT in the air.

Pennant crosses are always in the air, more often than not over every fuc.ker.

You're wrong Leon.

His crosses are good.

When he played with Fowler and Crouch you seen the quality of his crosses as they were attacked.

Pennant supplies width, something Kuyt doesn't do.

Pennant's crosses are usually into an area, which Kuyt and Bellamy completely failed to attack.

[Fo Dne]

well debated fodne nice to see you ignore the points again - but must say you have managed to post a few posts without insults so well done you

Dirk Kuyt... He works hard.

[GYBS]

you must be on about a totally different pennant than what we have for liverpool . yeah his crosses are into an area - area 51 most of the time .