bigmick wrote:The problem is essentially that everyone thinks they themselves behave in a reasonable way, when in actual fact everyone (except me obviously) is equally to blame. I must confess I do find some of the behaviour of sections of the forum a bit OTT at times, not only do they choose to disagree they choose to abuse as well and there isn't any need for it.
As for this thing about people chewing their bottom lip if others don't agree with them, I couldn't agree more. I personally couldn't care less, not one jot whether anybody agrees with me or not. When I say that the owners love having Rafa as manager and apparantly "flush any credibility I've got left down the toilet"
(I didn't know I had any anyway) I care not one iota. Nobody sees it the way I do, just like nobody saw the rotation debate in quite the same way as I did. That's OK though, I care not at all. It is my opinion, I have given it some considerable thought, and I am convinced I am right. Quite why people can't just say "nah I think you've got that one wrong Mick" rather than foaming at the mouth is and has always been a mystery to me. Quite why such an opinion makes you a disgrace is similarly baffling.
When people say that it isn't possible that we can challenge for the league, or that nobody would want to manage us, or the best we can hope for is mid table I totally disagree and deplore their negativity and lack of belief. I don't say it as they're entitled to their point of view, but I think it anyway. When those same people who say we can't win the league, can't get a manager who's better than Neil Warnock and can't finish higher than mid table call me negative, a disgrace, a c... who should be barred then it all gets a bit much.
Football debate is dead in the water, and while that suits some because they are utterly clueless anyway, for others it makes the forum tedious. It's groundhog debates over and over. We play sh!t, draw or lose, half of the forum says get a new manager, the other half says it's feck all to d with him. When we win and play well, half of the forum say "see I told you we were quite good" and the other half of the forum say it's because the managers a genius.
It's boring, and hence the forum is not in its best form at the moment. That said, it will no doubt score a goal off it's erse over the next few weeks and then it'll be flying again.
Owzat wrote:When all that is debated is the manager, and there are two distinct sides who won't concede much, then surely that's as surefire an indicator that the only solution to the arguing is the manager departing? While he remains so too will pro and anti Rafa stances, the (circular) arguments, blaming everything under the sun etc And I'm not using this to say he has to go, what I'm saying is that this is what you can expect from LFC debates from now until he does leave.
I've said before that I go on a non-LFC forum because you can discuss other things football, get other points of view and it can be a break from this place. Maybe some should spend less time on here, maybe even take a week off or not come in until the weekend or within a few hours either side of a match. Since no football is played inbetween matches then what else (new) is there to discuss? So it's not just a case of accepting others' viewpoints but realising that a forum for ONE FOOTBALL CLUB is hardly going to generate enough fresh material to sustain a day or two a week let alone seven.
We could do with a little bit less gestapo attitude with what people can or can't say
s@int wrote:Wtf ? I was just replying to St. Micks pro rafa rant and it disappeared
I think there are a lot of good posters on both sides of the argument, but its the extremists on both sides that do most of the damage. Calling Rafa a cun.t, or calling a poster a cun.t because he doesn't like some of Rafa's decisions helps no one and certainly doesn't encourage good debate.
As they say, "some of my favourite posters are pro's."
Personally I see nothing wrong in questioning the manager or the players at this stage of the season. We all (or nearly all) expected much better than what we have received in terms of results, money from the owners and performances from the players this season.
The only thing that continually annoys me is the same arguments being revisited over and over again, it just gets boring. (Money being the prime example)
I really do believe that people should be allowed to voice their opinion both for and against Rafa/Owners/Any given player..... as long as they do so in a proper manner. There is really no excuse for all the abuse thrown both at Rafa and at posters who's opinion may not match their own , and even worse is to try to censor people by requesting they are banned for expressing their opinion, this totally wrong in my view.
s@int wrote:Wtf ? I was just replying to St. Micks pro rafa rant and it disappeared
I think there are a lot of good posters on both sides of the argument, but its the extremists on both sides that do most of the damage. Calling Rafa a cun.t, or calling a poster a cun.t because he doesn't like some of Rafa's decisions helps no one and certainly doesn't encourage good debate.
As they say, "some of my favourite posters are pro's."
Personally I see nothing wrong in questioning the manager or the players at this stage of the season. We all (or nearly all) expected much better than what we have received in terms of results, money from the owners and performances from the players this season.
The only thing that continually annoys me is the same arguments being revisited over and over again, it just gets boring. (Money being the prime example)
I really do believe that people should be allowed to voice their opinion both for and against Rafa/Owners/Any given player..... as long as they do so in a proper manner. There is really no excuse for all the abuse thrown both at Rafa and at posters who's opinion may not match their own , and even worse is to try to censor people by requesting they are banned for expressing their opinion, this totally wrong in my view.
stmichael wrote:s@int wrote:Wtf ? I was just replying to St. Micks pro rafa rant and it disappeared
I think there are a lot of good posters on both sides of the argument, but its the extremists on both sides that do most of the damage. Calling Rafa a cun.t, or calling a poster a cun.t because he doesn't like some of Rafa's decisions helps no one and certainly doesn't encourage good debate.
As they say, "some of my favourite posters are pro's."
Personally I see nothing wrong in questioning the manager or the players at this stage of the season. We all (or nearly all) expected much better than what we have received in terms of results, money from the owners and performances from the players this season.
The only thing that continually annoys me is the same arguments being revisited over and over again, it just gets boring. (Money being the prime example)
I really do believe that people should be allowed to voice their opinion both for and against Rafa/Owners/Any given player..... as long as they do so in a proper manner. There is really no excuse for all the abuse thrown both at Rafa and at posters who's opinion may not match their own , and even worse is to try to censor people by requesting they are banned for expressing their opinion, this totally wrong in my view.
What does my in is that there are people on this forum who are here merely to have a moan at the manager. They don't post in any of the threads about the team. They also disappear when the team are doing well and then resurface one we have a bad result just so they can moan again. They even have to bring the manager into it in threads which have nothing whatsoever to do with the manager.
And don't even get me started on some of the stuff the manager has been called by some of our so called "supporters" on here.
s@int wrote:I would seriously doubt if any supporter just comes on to gloat in our defeat mate, maybe they post more due to their anger or disappointment when we have lost ?
stmichael wrote:s@int wrote:I would seriously doubt if any supporter just comes on to gloat in our defeat mate, maybe they post more due to their anger or disappointment when we have lost ?
I don't think they come on to gloat, I just think they're miserable gits.
For example I'll quote you what Big Niall has just poted in the "will we finish 4th" thread with regards to Rafa:
"The man is incompetant and should be fired - I am sickened the owners don't have a clause saying they can fire him if he fails to qualify for the CL.
7th place is a disgrace and he should be ashamed, do the honourable thing and quit, but these types never do, he'll hang on, just like Fred the shred for a massive payoff for being useless."
Well thanks for that post. That really adds a lot to the discussion. It's these sorts of posts that drag this place down.
red37 wrote:Yes, i wholeheartedly applaud the 'eroican' spirit in which RBG is attempting to embrace and coalesce the forum back into some semblance of its normal wellbeing. Full support for that notion here.
The obstacles that lay in the path of that goal often seem many, however they're not insurmountable. Most of the gripes are attributable directly to the teams fortune, arising out of frustration to that. We are all supporters who have the interests of the club at heart...and when you speak from the heart. You convey meaning with purpose and sincerity.
With any platform where the common layman is furnished with a gob that he feels holds free license over and above the opinion of others (one that not necessarily can manage well its own concept of decency or fairness at any given time). It is understandable that there will be friction on occasion. Human condition, the nature of the beast and all that. Besides there is little profit for wallflowers here. Nor should there be if you intend to stimulate arguement as well as postulate opinion with the best of 'em.
One thing i find particularly amusing though - yet wholly deplorable is where a member feels he/she simply has to have the upper hand or has in some way, shape or form scored a bonus point. For example, i was reading a thread recently where - some unscrupulous character was competitavely claiming the metaphorical 'first prize' for being able to 'predict' months in advance (through whatever means at his disposal i assume) that Liverpool would infact not finish inside the top 4 this term. Almost completely translated if you like into an abridged version of the event thus:
Alarming to say the least. However 'nowt so queer as folk' i suppose...in any case the analogy prevails across many a topic - and by many exponents of it sadly.
Having said that, on the whole some allow themselves the 'flights of fancy' regards certain topics. Others are happy to ingratiate their input in a respectful and enlightening manner. There will always be the 'downpressors' - the 'doomsayers' - Those that demand perhaps more than they are wiling to impart....or acknowledge. Abusers and dubious characters notwithstanding, this is generally the way of it on a forum which needs a blend of all these factions in order to propagate healthy and diverse debate at all in the first place. Newkit is no different.
Balance will be restored - eventually. Even shrinking violets can apply for the role! It is simply the cycle of events that dictate the tone of debate. Topical.
Anything above that remit will be bounced into touch.
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