Liverpool FC Forum

[Kopite-Jud]

I fully agree with eds

Call the "whinge committee" all you want but I'm not accepting mediocrity from this club.

Once you let your expectations drop your standards drop.

[Thommo's perm]

Tis the season to be whingey, tra la la la la, la la la laaaaaaah

[Reg]

The club's capabilities and fans expectations are not aligned. 

One party has responsibility, the other is armed with expectation.

Do those same fans place such excruciatingly high level of expectation and standards on their own marriage relationships, their kids performance at school and on their own employers?

They exhibit spookie high levels of control over a football hobby but are willing to compromise at home and work?

How does it work guys, how do you balance expectation with human frailty?

[RedAnt]

You strip away all the cr*p and look at the basic elements: the assembled squad and its qualities, the man charged with shaping that squad and making it perform, results on the pitch, and finally... trophies in the cabinet. It's like the old question: what came first, the chicken or the egg? If Brendan Rodgers is the top of the pyramid then everything beneath him, the players, would be expected to be of a similar level of ability. If one player is bigger and better (Suarez) than the peak of the pyramid, and has no affinity to it (unlike Gerrard) then he will rise above it and go join another pyramid (Barcelona). As long as BR is in charge we will only bring in players suited to his ability. Some say he's great. Lots of potential. Maybe. But other managers are good NOW. Personally I always thought that as one of the worlds biggest clubs we should have a manger fitting that status who can bring in players to suit.
You hire BR and you get players like Borini and Allen. Balotelli. Players like Hendo become captains on 100k a week. The trophy cabinet remains a sacred memory. There is progress, but it's towards mid-table, not the top. It's really that simple.

[Kopite-Jud]

For me we need a proven manager, not a manager thats learning on the job.

It's not only the results that have been shocking this season its the performances.  They have been WELL below par.West Ham, Villa, West Brom, Hull (twice) Newcastle and all the Champions league games and a shoddy FA cup semi final.

After heavily investing and having an injury to 1 player as an excuse I don't buy it. 

We were an attraction last season we had the money for big players and the Champions league to offer, why's he only realised now we need a "marquee" player now ?  Because he's learning on the job ?

But all thats ok when he's running his mouth about Man-Utd not being able to "attract top players" , telling Van Gaal "hes in for a shock"  and Spurs "if you spend £100M you'd be expecting to challenge for the league". Then has the audacity to come out and say we need to spend again  . If I gave a man £117,000,000  (£65M of which was after we sold a prized asset) I wouldn't trust him with my dinner money.

People say FSG want to buy young and make a profit. Why have they given this man all the money from sales ontop of a trasfer budget?

Im sorry but I don't understand how some of you think this is acceptable.

He's right we didnt do a spurs

We've done worse

[RedAnt]

It's funny that the "elite" fans who believe in "old fashioned support" are using modern football to absolve BR of blame. Can you imagine standing in the Kop during the 70's and 80's, all around you people are yelling at the manager and players to "f*cking sort it out!" and you are yelling at them all "this is shameful! It's not the manager or players! It's the wage structure and the owners and the tea lady! The boys down there are trying really hard! They're just not very good. Blame the businessmen!" You'd be chased out of the stadium. Who do we yell at when we wander by a pub match on a Sunday morning? The landlord? The brewery? The barmaid with the big baps? No, you yell at the players, the manager, or you keep quiet cos that guy with the skinhead looks hard, and he's got a hangover. Using modern day standards to beat the old-school drum seems illogical to me.

[leeroy74]

So how does a man like BR go from hero to zero in a close season? spitting distance from a League Title to wanting him sacked within a month of a new season? Seems odd when people only judge someone for the negatives and there's a fair few on here that does just that. I prefer to look at the bigger picture over his whole time at LFC and from that I still have a belief in Brendan and I still think given the time he'll sort it out. That's my belief though and I reserve the right to have that. Right or wrong.

[RedAnt]

So how does a man like BR go from hero to zero in a close season? spitting distance from a League Title to wanting him sacked within a month of a new season? Seems odd when people only judge someone for the negatives and there's a fair few on here that does just that. I prefer to look at the bigger picture over his whole time at LFC and from that I still have a belief in Brendan and I still think given the time he'll sort it out. That's my belief though and I reserve the right to have that. Right or wrong.

To be fair mate, many of us didn't think he was a hero. Some put it down to Suarez and circumstance. Other managers have achieved more without being labelled a hero. Maybe we're too quick with the word these days.

[maguskwt]

The club's capabilities and fans expectations are not aligned. 

One party has responsibility, the other is armed with expectation.

Do those same fans place such excruciatingly high level of expectation and standards on their own marriage relationships, their kids performance at school and on their own employers?

They exhibit spookie high levels of control over a football hobby but are willing to compromise at home and work?

How does it work guys, how do you balance expectation with human frailty?

A very good question raised... The ppl running the club, the Owners, the CEO, the coo, the manager, the scouts, etc etc are supposed to be professionals and know what they are doing. But they are still only humans and humans make mistakes. The way some fans go about, running a football club must have the same accuracy and precision engineering as in a field like aeronautics.

[RedAnt]

The club's capabilities and fans expectations are not aligned. 

One party has responsibility, the other is armed with expectation.

Do those same fans place such excruciatingly high level of expectation and standards on their own marriage relationships, their kids performance at school and on their own employers?

They exhibit spookie high levels of control over a football hobby but are willing to compromise at home and work?

How does it work guys, how do you balance expectation with human frailty?

A very good question raised... The ppl running the club, the Owners, the CEO, the coo, the manager, the scouts, etc etc are supposed to be professionals and know what they are doing. But they are still only humans and humans make mistakes. The way some fans go about, running a football club must have the same accuracy and precision engineering as in a field like aeronautics.

One might expect a level of proficiency from professional scouts and the like.

Take a look back at the signings made by Houllier, then Benitez, and even Kenny signing Suarez. Look at those brought through the academy (on which I believe both Rafa and Gerard exerted full control). Yes, both signed plenty of duffers, but they balanced that out with players of pure quality. So far as I can see BR has only brought in Coutinho, a gamble that paid off, but if it failed it's "only £8m gone" and Sturridge who all the other teams had given up on and we gave a home to. We can say it's a different game now, that we're a different team, unable to attract such players anymore. But why is that the case? Taking into account all the background info on the forum, owners, business's, wage structures etc I still find it very hard to look beyond the man who leads the team, the man charged with getting results under circumstances he was aware of when he signed.
So again, let's say there's owners, committees and wages all involved in making the decisions then does that not mean that BR is in fact nothing more than a coach? If he's such a great manager then why does he not have the same level of responsibility and authority as his predecessors? It seems to me he's filling a dumbed-down managers role. A "junior" managers role. It makes no sense.

[devaney]

Realistic expectations are absolutely fine. Expecting us to win the league or automatically achieve top four status this season was a little silly to say the least. Public enemy number one does his thing in the world cup and we are left between a rock and a hard place !! Suarez is a phenomenal footballer and I was as upset as anybody to see him go but it didn't take someone with the IQ of Einstein to realise that he had decided to go, and the club had probably agreed to let him, before the ink was dry on the contract he signed in December 2014. I find it amusing that Luis has been singled out by some fans as the reason for our success last season and that Rogers has been singled out for our so-called failings this season. Am I happy that we look like finishing 5th and getting to two domestic semi finals? No of course I'm not but it is hardly a disgrace when you look at what the teams above us have invested in wages and transfer fees over the last decade. Ok I appreciate that does not fully apply to Arsenal. Unless we are prepared to pay crazy wages and transfer fees as a result of selling the club to a rich oil baron then we have got to accept that it is not going to be easy.

Balotelli was a £16m risk that many fans thought worthwhile. It didn't work out so it has to be down to Rogers. Nothing to do with the fact that Balotelli shows about as much enthusiasm for the game as a dead rat !! Lambert did a half decent job at Southampton but has failed to succeed at a higher level. Obviously that is all Rogers fault as well. Most of the whinge committee didn't have a good word to say about Mignolet and he has just won player of the season !! No doubt that was all down to him and fk all to do with Rogers. Suarez played his very best football under Rogers and certainly improved. Coutinho who Milan binned has come on in leaps and bounds under Rogers. The same could be said to some extent for Sterling.Can is showing a lot of promise.be is looking very impressive.Henderson continues to improve. Lovren and Markovic will have better second seasons. I'm convinced of that. Yes Rogers has weaknesses like every human being. It is a shame that some people are incapable of focusing on his strengths.

[Reg]

Next season is a very big season for Rodgers from all perspectives.

If BR can't make it work under the conditions set down by the owners then he will be asking himself whether he should stay.
If we don't achieve better results/consistency then the owners will be asking whether BR is the right man.
Regardless, if the results don't improve then the fans will be calling for his head, led by the lads on this forum.

Whichever way you look at it, BR must be pretty focused right now and scouring europe for the best transfer options.

Remember the owners wanted a wage cap, they don't want to go the plastic flag way. I asked the question before, I'll ask it gain... Do we want to win the league next season by selling our souls to the 300k a week plastic flag brigade. I don't, I really don't. I can wait for us to get there the Liverpool way.

[eds]

Thanks Dev but you are only confirming what I said previously, you and the rest of the Rodgers cultists can't present a SINGLE valid reason why he should stay.

Not after he was given 120m to spend and the squad looks even worse than what it did at the end of last season. 

Call people whingers all you want, but it won't help your cause. 

Although I am enjoying the tantrums you lot are throwing, it's f**king hilarious 

[RedAnt]

Realistic expectations are absolutely fine. Expecting us to win the league or automatically achieve top four status this season was a little silly to say the least. Public enemy number one does his thing in the world cup and we are left between a rock and a hard place !! Suarez is a phenomenal footballer and I was as upset as anybody to see him go but it didn't take someone with the IQ of Einstein to realise that he had decided to go, and the club had probably agreed to let him, before the ink was dry on the contract he signed in December 2014. I find it amusing that Luis has been singled out by some fans as the reason for our success last season and that Rogers has been singled out for our so-called failings this season. Am I happy that we look like finishing 5th and getting to two domestic semi finals? No of course I'm not but it is hardly a disgrace when you look at what the teams above us have invested in wages and transfer fees over the last decade. Ok I appreciate that does not fully apply to Arsenal. Unless we are prepared to pay crazy wages and transfer fees as a result of selling the club to a rich oil baron then we have got to accept that it is not going to be easy.

Balotelli was a £16m risk that many fans thought worthwhile. It didn't work out so it has to be down to Rogers. Nothing to do with the fact that Balotelli shows about as much enthusiasm for the game as a dead rat !! Lambert did a half decent job at Southampton but has failed to succeed at a higher level. Obviously that is all Rogers fault as well. Most of the whinge committee didn't have a good word to say about Mignolet and he has just won player of the season !! No doubt that was all down to him and fk all to do with Rogers. Suarez played his very best football under Rogers and certainly improved. Coutinho who Milan binned has come on in leaps and bounds under Rogers. The same could be said to some extent for Sterling.Can is showing a lot of promise.be is looking very impressive.Henderson continues to improve. Lovren and Markovic will have better second seasons. I'm convinced of that. Yes Rogers has weaknesses like every human being. It is a shame that some people are incapable of focusing on his strengths.

Whilst I understand the sentiment, there are also many questions here, such as your point about Mignolet. Last year Suarez was a no brainer for player of the year. This year Migs is the best of a bad bunch (though I think Skrtel was better. But what did BR do that should take credit? Left Brad Jones as his only option? Persisted with Migs long after the fans knew Mignolet was leaking goals? Remove him after criticism and then recall him because Jones got injured? A good manager would have done 2 things differently.

*make sure there is good back up.
*drop Migs when it was clear he was crumbling under the pressure (he did that, but too late. How many points were lost due to this decision?)

I don't have time to write more right now but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. And at the end you mention BR's strengths. Can you list them?

[eds]

On another note:

http://www.espnfc.com/story/2445175/liverpool-held-memphis-depay-talks-with-psv-brands

The shiny teethed clown should have just kept his mouth shut rather then blatantly lie about the fact that we weren't interested in Depay.

Embarrassing our club, yet again.