Liverpool FC Forum

[SouthCoastShankly]

Doeboy, no offence mate but I'd rather be wrong...

I watch a lot of football mate in this country and have quite a bit of playing experience and always apply my experiences to real life.

When I talk about quality players I know the difference it makes. I understand exactly how it works. Having played semi professionally I often find Sunday League and Saturday league fairly "easy", however, I've come up against players over the years at that level that have got the better of me on occassions, some have had attributes that I can't live with and some have been bitty/nearly players (IE they are good at some things and not others). What you notice every level you jump up is the quality alround in terms of attributes... and at premier league level Liverpool lack players like this. My point is, players like Suarez, can run, are fit, strong and can finish. However, they can also tackle, defend, pass, have vision etc etc. When I look at our team I see players like Danny Sturridge, who can attack, but can't defend, I see players like Henderson who work hard, but don't really attack or defend... I just see players who aren't top quality all over the pitch... I then see the signings and think some of them are woeful to be quite honest. Some of them don't even show their supposed "strengths" which is a massive worry...

That's the point stu by your own admission each step up is massive. The fact is you've not played at anywhere near the level these players plays to, you've played semi-pro (as have I BTW), it doesn't qualify you to pass judgement on Professional players anymore than the rest of us.

Only those who have played at that level can claim superior knowledge. To my knowledge there's no one on this board who can make this claim and as such all opinions are valid and equal.

[RedAnt]

Well... despite the utter failure by the manager, we are 3 points off 4th...ppl would think that we are battling relegation the way some posts on here are going. The mancs who has spent 100+ million NET has 1 pt fewer than us. What is common with both teams is that both have alot of new players in the team. Van Gaal must have wasted all the millions on rubbish players then. BR's progress last season was ahead of any of us had expected. But no, let's all just give up now and demand a new manager... 

But carry on... I prefer to do my judgement after the end of the season...

You seem very eager to get in people's faces. The issue in my own mind is at the way we're playing. I watch Liverpool because all my life it's been something I've loved to do. There's been hard times, but one can't switch loyalty on and off. You're either loyal or you ain't. I'm still watching the team. Still supporting the players, still hoping BR sorts it out. But there's been so little to cheer. If we only posted on the positives, this forum would be dead in the water right now.
I was never pro-BR, but we get what we're given. We've been given Brendan Rodgers. So far he's had one great season. And so far THIS season has been terrible and doesn't look to be improving.
"Rebuilding" happens these days. Doesn't mean you have to like the rubble that lays where your house used to be.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

"Rebuilding" happens these days. Doesn't mean you have to like the rubble that lays where your house used to be.

Although that's the thing with loose debris ,it unsettles the earth and lets the worms come to the surface 

[Stu the Red]

That's the point stu by your own admission each step up is massive. The fact is you've not played at anywhere near the level these players plays to, you've played semi-pro (as have I BTW), it doesn't qualify you to pass judgement on Professional players anymore than the rest of us.

Only those who have played at that level can claim superior knowledge. To my knowledge there's no one on this board who can make this claim and as such all opinions are valid and equal.

Yes but I was a half decent player where as you weren't!   

[RedAnt]

"Rebuilding" happens these days. Doesn't mean you have to like the rubble that lays where your house used to be.

Although that's the thing with loose debris ,it unsettles the earth and lets the worms come to the surface 

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I bet it's something amusing

Anyway, not being from Liverpool, I don't have the same emotional connection as many here, but I always find myself drawn to tradition, good sport and fairplay, and though I'm not pro-BR, nor am I massively against him. This forum is the most input I have into LFC and I'd never call for the managers head. It's bad sport in my eyes. There's a lot of that at times.
I hope BR and the team pick things up. There's two huge games coming up, and you never know, it could be the start of a change in fortunes. But right now performances are so poor that a lot of fans don't hold much hope. We've had a sharp shock and I can understand fans anger at it. I'm sure we'll all be shouting for the same team at the end of the clichéd day though.

[Stu the Red]

I would like to remind posters on here then that when we finished 2nd and lost out on the title by only 2 pts to man city, the manager was Brendan Rodgers. It is absolutely ridiculous to say that the reason we finished 2nd season was because of one player and the reason we are not doing well is because of the manager. You can't have it both ways. I would also like to remind that Luis Suarez under Kenny Daglish scored 17 goals, where as under Brendan Rodgers he scored 30 and 31 goals. You need both hands of clap, if Suarez wasn't given the system and opportunity to shine by BR, he wouldn't have shined. BR spent 100m+, but you have to remember it is not purely adding on to the squad we had in 13-14. He lost Suarez, and therefore had to buy so much. Our net spend was only like 40 million +. Our net spend in the previous season was merely 20 million. Do you lot think that he would not have preferred to keep Suarez? And it's not like he didn't try to sign players like Edison, Falcao, Sanchez, William etc. Like it or not Liverpool can't compete with the clubs in terms of the salary that these players went to. The gloating and pat-on-the-shoulder's and I-told-you-so's only after the team loses absolutely disgusts me. I can't believe what kind of fans we have become... Really 

That's as bad a post a I have read in a long time to quite honest, to say your "argument" was poor and full of holes is a massive understatement, unfortunately, people like yourself can't see the wood for the trees.

Rodgers was manager when we finished second, with a massive amount of circumstances in his favour, yet still managed to blow the league title when we were in pole position. (Again something you can't handle so deny pathetically). The list of circumstances were beyond belief and absolutely essential to the season going the way it did.

You then move onto Suarez, yet fail to acknowledge that he was entering his prime just as Rodgers took over, it was natural progression as to why his goal record improved as someone as insanely talented as him was always going to make that improvement, just as Gerrard was always going to reach the level he did regardless of the manager (again something you can't see). You then acknowledge that Luis was a great player and yet our manager believed it was appropriate to take "a gamble" on his replacement? And you defend this? Why?

On net spend, do not get me f*cking started. Selling Suarez for £75,000,000 does not excuse signing rubbish. You can never use net spend as an argument for signing cr*p. If you can't see that then you are thick. Plain and simple.

You then decide to start waffling about the manager not being able to sign top players, well then, he's in the wrong job. A good manager will be able to convince top players that aren't 100% convinced... Not to mention we payed Luis Suarez £250,000 a week, Gerrard £150,000 a week and Johnson £110,000 a week... funnily enough a lot more than Arsenal pay their top earners and also a fair wack more per player than most of Chelsea and City's squad. This isn't even mentioning players who would improve us massively who we don't even bother going for... Sometimes you don't need to sign big names to improve your side or especially your squad, when a player like Sessignon moves for £5,000,000 from Sunderland to West Brom and we sign Aspas for in excess of £7,500,000 its hard to take. A proven premier league player who is a threat and has genuine abililty and even now who'd improve our bench at 30 years old, and we wasted money on A-spaz... had it been a one off, of course he'd have been cut loads of slack, but its not, it happens every window on numourous occasions, whats weird again, is you don't think this is an issue... you almost seem to champion it.

In another post you mention the spine of the team... we currently don't have one... WHY? £116,000,000 in one window spent and we don't have a spine?

Mig no let, Johnson and Skrtel made stupid amounts of individual errors last season, the hole world could see we needed improvements on them and yet, they're still first teamers? All three of them? Maybe one I could understand if it was due to funds, but it isn't, its plainly down to poor judgement.

Then there is the lack of strength he is showing over Gerrard, who was 31 going on 32 when he was appointed, does he really think Can is an adequate replacement?

Sorry, but I've once called you a spaceman, now I think you're just a f*cking Alien, you're so far out there its frightening.

[ballotelliman]

if things dont improve i can see koeman being tipped next and where koeman goes pelle and tadjic go can you imagine saints fans if that happened after what we did last season lol

[Doeboy]

if things dont improve i can see koeman being tipped next and where koeman goes pelle and tadjic go can you imagine saints fans if that happened after what we did last season lol

First and foremost, I hope Rodgers can turn us around and get us going again. However I do think the next few weeks could be quite telling. As it stands, can't see any other result than two losses against Real and Chelsea. After that, we have on paper, a 'winnable' run of games which should coincide with Sturridge's return so I think we should be OK, although in our current form, the games could be a real quagmire.

If it does really go tits up, I think the suits will be getting twitchy. Koeman has drifted around a bit and I'm not too sure about him. Southampton haven't had the toughest of starts to the league so interesting to see how they get on later. In Pelle and Tadic they have two very good players. In fact, I was talking to a southampton fan last week who said Tadic is a much better player than Lallana. Anyway, like I said, I don't really want to think about replacements for Rodgers yet. Deserves time to get us sorted, although must admit I'm not seeing signs of improvement with each passing game which is worrying and if we carry on in this vein, you've got to think the suits will be ready to pull the trigger

[Stu the Red]

Who's gloating?

If you're referring to me saying we've done a spurs, it's anything but a 'gloat'.

Believe me there's nothing I'd love more than to eat my own words, but the stark truth was glaringly obvious for all to see.

As stated above, mediocre maybe's and potential don't cut it in this league.

Some people are just coming to realise what's happened in the past 4 months. Or should I say 2 and half years.

The money spent on some of those players is absolutely frightening.

Some of the better signings like Allen, Lallana and Lovren were massively overpaid for and none of them have really improved the first 11.

Some of the signings are absolutely embarrassing and the likes of Aspaz, Borini, Alberto, Illori and Mignolet are so bad its painful to watch £31,000,000 wasted on these three players is absolutely unbelievable and is near enough worth a sacking on its own. I can't believe people think this is acceptable "management". I could do better than that myself and I'd trust most people to do so.

[eds]

I would like to remind posters on here then that when we finished 2nd and lost out on the title by only 2 pts to man city, the manager was Brendan Rodgers. It is absolutely ridiculous to say that the reason we finished 2nd season was because of one player and the reason we are not doing well is because of the manager. You can't have it both ways. I would also like to remind that Luis Suarez under Kenny Daglish scored 17 goals, where as under Brendan Rodgers he scored 30 and 31 goals. You need both hands of clap, if Suarez wasn't given the system and opportunity to shine by BR, he wouldn't have shined. BR spent 100m+, but you have to remember it is not purely adding on to the squad we had in 13-14. He lost Suarez, and therefore had to buy so much. Our net spend was only like 40 million +. Our net spend in the previous season was merely 20 million. Do you lot think that he would not have preferred to keep Suarez? And it's not like he didn't try to sign players like Edison, Falcao, Sanchez, William etc. Like it or not Liverpool can't compete with the clubs in terms of the salary that these players went to. The gloating and pat-on-the-shoulder's and I-told-you-so's only after the team loses absolutely disgusts me. I can't believe what kind of fans we have become... Really 

What absolute garbage.

If you can't see that we are doing s**t this season and are too much of a lemming to understand that most of our problems revolve our manager's deficiencies and his inept signings then you just don't understand anything about football at all.

Stu has already pointed out massive holes in your idiotic ramblings.

But let's make one thing clear sunshine, we all support Liverpool FC not just you. When the majority on this forum are disgusted and embarrassed by the way our club is performing the only soul searching people should be doing are individuals like yourself who think that "blind clueless faith" make them "better" supporters than everyone else. There are a few on here banging on the same drum and frankly it's pathetic.   

[Reg]

Eds, you're so predictable.......

[eds]

Not as predictable as your one line responses Reginald.

[Reg]

The problem is what happens when you sell your best player or he declines with age. Our past record is good.
Keegan => Kenny,  Rush=> Fowler, Fowler => Owen, Owen => Torres, Torres => Suarez.  Evidence of replacing great players with great players. With the owners policy of buying 20 million players we didn't replace a great player with a great player, we replaced him with a donkey. We don't  maintain the same momentum.

The other issue is attracting a world class player. Suarez joined us under a cloud after an earlier biting episode. But why would Sanchez, Cavani, Falcao, Hazard etc.. join us as a lone star knowing he's surrounded by mediocre squad mates? Isn't that a recipe for frustration, (mis passes, lost balls, silly decisions, simple lack of skill?). Star players move to strong teams as the team building has largely been done and they require just one big signing per season as someone drops off the ladder. We're not at that stage, we are still at the money splashing stage.

I've watched us blow 110 million over the summer and it's painful. We cocked up buying Andy Carroll and if we're not careful we're going to end up with a team of Andy Carrolls.

Van Gaal's come in and bought 2-3 key players straight off the shelf. For some reason they don't want to come to Anfield. I'd make our first priority to invite every football agent with a quality portfolio to Anfield and explain the gameplan and get their buy in, 'cos that's the only way they're going to recommend a move to Anfield to their top players.

Otherwise lads, the current Liverpool is woefully short of league winning potential.

[Reg]

Not as predictable as your one line responses Reginald.

I keep them deliberately short so you can understand them. 

[eds]

Of course you would say that Reginald, talk some sense to a fool and he will call you foolish.....