Liverpool FC Forum

[RedAnt]

And instead of Whinge Committee, can we please be The Bitchin' Squad? Sounds so much cooler.

[RedAnt]

Next season is a very big season for Rodgers from all perspectives.

If BR can't make it work under the conditions set down by the owners then he will be asking himself whether he should stay.
If we don't achieve better results/consistency then the owners will be asking whether BR is the right man.
Regardless, if the results don't improve then the fans will be calling for his head, led by the lads on this forum.

Whichever way you look at it, BR must be pretty focused right now and scouring europe for the best transfer options.

Remember the owners wanted a wage cap, they don't want to go the plastic flag way. I asked the question before, I'll ask it gain... Do we want to win the league next season by selling our souls to the 300k a week plastic flag brigade. I don't, I really don't. I can wait for us to get there the Liverpool way.

I suppose the answer to your question Reg is that we don't need to sell our soul. Survival of the fittest is usually the case in all walks of life. Things evolve or they die. If other clubs pay big wages there's little point whining about what a state the world is in. Keep it simple. We evolve and compete, or we complain and fade away.

[maguskwt]

Thanks Dev but you are only confirming what I said previously, you and the rest of the Rodgers cultists can't present a SINGLE valid reason why he should stay.

Not after he was given 120m to spend and the squad looks even worse than what it did at the end of last season. 

Call people whingers all you want, but it won't help your cause. 

Although I am enjoying the tantrums you lot are throwing, it's f**king hilarious 

If you browse through this forum, you will more often than not see that the whinging brigade are the ones throwing the tantrums not the other way round...

[taff]

Would Swansea fans have him back

Ones I know reckon Martinez was the architect there.

Not backing the lfc manager feels uncomfortable and wrong but we have a huge decision. Give him another year by all means but what if it goes wrong, Spurs get better the top four get further away we are in trouble.

I a confused with who is in charge regarding transfers and from the outside looking in we are a bit of a laughing stock. No interest in depay then today's story. Etc etc.

What is our style what type of players are Liverpool players. If it's cheap ones or potential ones we could hope to sell for loads later on then it's a horrible new world for us I'm afraid and a Liverpool manager should not if he truly believes in the club and is happy to refer to shankly etc, tolerate I put up with this.

Nothing personal but I can't escape the feeling that Brendan puts Brendan first not the club. Hope I'm wrong of course but something just doesn't smell right.

[leeroy74]

On another note:

http://www.espnfc.com/story/2445175/liverpool-held-memphis-depay-talks-with-psv-brands

The shiny teethed clown should have just kept his mouth shut rather then blatantly lie about the fact that we weren't interested in Depay.

Embarrassing our club, yet again. 

But yet LVG came out and said he didn't want to sign Depay until summer but had to do it quick because Depay had sorted a deal with PSG. No mention of LFC at all, kind of makes it look like Rodgers was maybe saying the truth? or doesn't that fit your agenda? no, brush over that fact.

In fact, after rading the link fully it would seem Ian Ayres might have spoke with PSV not Brendan, so whats your f@cking point eds you Sh*t stirrer?

[supersub]

Thanks Dev but you are only confirming what I said previously, you and the rest of the Rodgers cultists can't present a SINGLE valid reason why he should stay.

Not after he was given 120m to spend and the squad looks even worse than what it did at the end of last season. 

Call people whingers all you want, but it won't help your cause. 

Although I am enjoying the tantrums you lot are throwing, it's f**king hilarious 

If you browse through this forum, you will more often than not see that the whinging brigade are the ones throwing the tantrums not the other way round...

I haven't observed any tantrums from pro bodg or anti bodj , but from what I have seen on and off the field this season only confirmed my worst fears when this self obsessed buffoon first stepped foot into the corridors of Anfield.... He is a pretentious middle table manager at his best and a total relegation stalwart for the future...I don't think any player with any credibility on the world market would ever consider signing for Liverpool whilst he is at the helm..And I have no doubt 365 days from today we will be in the same place as we are today " if we are lucky" to coin a phrase.... In all my years I have never been so pessimistic about our future...

[devaney]

Eds - I thought I actually mentioned a couple of BR's strengths. You clearly ignored them as you don't want to give him credit for anything which just about sums up everything you write which is just one long tedious tantrum 

RedAnt - What you have highlighted about Mignolet is typical of your attitude to be honest mate. Yes Rogers got it wrong not selecting Mignolet against United and yes he should have been replaced earlier in the season due to his questionable form. Brad Jones gets injured and Mignolet returns a more confident and determined player. Exactly how did that happen? Oh of course it was pure luck and nothing to do with the coaching ability of Rogers and his team. Hindsight is probably the only exact science.

Please remember that Kenny was also responsible for signing Carroll for a ridiculous £35m !!   Seems reasonable If you going to give Kenny credit for buying Suarez when in reality Kenny and Hodgson both scouted Suarez whilst Hodgson was the manager and Comolli completed the deal. Kenny's involvement was minimal at best. The difference is that in your eyes Kenny could do nothing wrong and Rogers can do nothing right.

Supersub - I think your credibility went down the pan with all the shight you have hurled at Gerrard this season. Possibly the clubs greatest ever player and you show him zero support 

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

The club's capabilities and fans expectations are not aligned. 

One party has responsibility, the other is armed with expectation.

Do those same fans place such excruciatingly high level of expectation and standards on their own marriage relationships, their kids performance at school and on their own employers?

They exhibit spookie high levels of control over a football hobby but are willing to compromise at home and work?

How does it work guys, how do you balance expectation with human frailty?

So this collative of the 'unsated' are now expected to shoulder the fallibility that exists in their every day lives  and take it the match with them ?
When the escapism that exists in football has been spirited away Reg, the lifesblood that turns the gears and spurs us to greatness  will have run
as thin as water.

Think of Rodgers as a form of anticoagulant if you like ,but my veins are filled with the good red stuff,unfettered and in no mood to be paled by
the  acceptance of the ordinary !

[supersub]

Eds - I thought I actually mentioned a couple of BR's strengths. You clearly ignored them as you don't want to give him credit for anything which just about sums up everything you write which is just one long tedious tantrum 

RedAnt - What you have highlighted about Mignolet is typical of your attitude to be honest mate. Yes Rogers got it wrong not selecting Mignolet against United and yes he should have been replaced earlier in the season due to his questionable form. Brad Jones gets injured and Mignolet returns a more confident and determined player. Exactly how did that happen? Oh of course it was pure luck and nothing to do with the coaching ability of Rogers and his team. Hindsight is probably the only exact science.

Please remember that Kenny was also responsible for signing Carroll for a ridiculous £35m !!   Seems reasonable If you going to give Kenny credit for buying Suarez when in reality Kenny and Hodgson both scouted Suarez whilst Hodgson was the manager and Comolli completed the deal. Kenny's involvement was minimal at best. The difference is that in your eyes Kenny could do nothing wrong and Rogers can do nothing right.

Supersub - I think your credibility went down the pan with all the shight you have hurled at Gerrard this season. Possibly the clubs greatest ever player and you show him zero support 

One of the reasons we are in such a predicament now is the failure of successive managers of late to replace Gerrard with a more competent player.... SG hasn't been the "legend"  for over 5 years get your head out your a**e

[RedAnt]

Dev,

From what you say about Mignolet then it does indeed sound like good luck. He was only restored to the squad because Jones got injured. If we had another 'keeper then he'd have gone in, not Mignolet whom Brendan had said would be rested "indefinitely". How you can give him any credit for Migs performances is beyond me.

As for Carroll, he didn't work out too well did he? Torres left us in the lurch and we took a punt on the last day of the window and made £15m profit. At least Kenny tried to replace Suarez. If only Brendan had done the same with Suarez. BR also sold Carroll because he was slow and didn't fit.... then we bought Mario. I don't see how you can compare the two cases. But let's not forget that Kenny got sacked...

[devaney]

RedAnt - That's right when things go well it's down to luck and when things go badly it's down to BR !!

I guess your idea of a £15m profit is where we perhaps differ. We made a near £30m profit on Torres who had become a shadow of his former self and a major sulk. Did he really leave us in the lurch? The reality of the situation was that we had the opportunity to make a significant profit on a player that was well past his best and has never looked like returning to his best Liverpool form. Yes Andy Carroll was a panic purchase and unfortunately it was as much to appease the fans after the H & G and Hodgson debacle. As you well know we made a near £20m loss on Carroll. To equate the Torres sale and the Carroll purchase as a £15m profit is bizarre regardless of what Kenny or Comolli would like us to believe. At the time most sensible people in football believed that we had been rolled over by Newcastle and history certainly proves that they were right and your actually trying to give Kenny credit for replacing Torres (pre sulk model) with Carroll. I'd actually take Balotelli for Suarez as a better option   

Supersub - last season Gerrard had the most assists and came 3rd behind Suarez and Sturridge for goals. Highest goal scorer this season. Couldn't give a flying fk if they were penalties. The pressure on the lad at times to score from the spot was immense. The abuse he has had from you is idiotic.  Suggest you look at what he has actually done over the last 5 years...... RESPECT - I don't think you know how to spell it mate 

[LFC1990]

Dev watch the start of the season games Vs West Ham,Villa, Crystal Palace any side with a bit of pace

Gerrard got his ***** handed to him every time. Gerrard will go down as a legend no matter what but the sad fact of it is that he has been below woeful this season and cost us many points, Don't get me wrong he has got us plenty of points and trophies over the years but right about now he is one of our poorer performing players.

Look at what Chelsea did with Lampard, Knew he couldn't cut it so reduced his game time and when he played he played where he was most effective the same thing that Citeh are doing with him.

Giggs,Scholes and Neville when they left Man utd left as champions Even Carragher came out of his final season with Liverpool with his head held higher than Gerrard and there is one person to blame BR

[Kash_Mountain]

Dev watch the start of the season games Vs West Ham,Villa, Crystal Palace any side with a bit of pace

Gerrard got his ***** handed to him every time. Gerrard will go down as a legend no matter what but the sad fact of it is that he has been below woeful this season and cost us many points, Don't get me wrong he has got us plenty of points and trophies over the years but right about now he is one of our poorer performing players.

Look at what Chelsea did with Lampard, Knew he couldn't cut it so reduced his game time and when he played he played where he was most effective the same thing that Citeh are doing with him.

Giggs,Scholes and Neville when they left Man utd left as champions Even Carragher came out of his final season with Liverpool with his head held higher than Gerrard and there is one person to blame BR

Also, when BR decided to play him as DM, the other players around him had to babysit him because he couldn't cope. When this happened, a lot of momentum was lost. That BR for you.........

[RedAnt]

RedAnt - That's right when things go well it's down to luck and when things go badly it's down to BR !!

I guess your idea of a £15m profit is where we perhaps differ. We made a near £30m profit on Torres who had become a shadow of his former self and a major sulk. Did he really leave us in the lurch? The reality of the situation was that we had the opportunity to make a significant profit on a player that was well past his best and has never looked like returning to his best Liverpool form. Yes Andy Carroll was a panic purchase and unfortunately it was as much to appease the fans after the H & G and Hodgson debacle. As you well know we made a near £20m loss on Carroll. To equate the Torres sale and the Carroll purchase as a £15m profit is bizarre regardless of what Kenny or Comolli would like us to believe. At the time most sensible people in football believed that we had been rolled over by Newcastle and history certainly proves that they were right and your actually trying to give Kenny credit for replacing Torres (pre sulk model) with Carroll. I'd actually take Balotelli for Suarez as a better option   

Supersub - last season Gerrard had the most assists and came 3rd behind Suarez and Sturridge for goals. Highest goal scorer this season. Couldn't give a flying fk if they were penalties. The pressure on the lad at times to score from the spot was immense. The abuse he has had from you is idiotic.  Suggest you look at what he has actually done over the last 5 years...... RESPECT - I don't think you know how to spell it mate 

I said "good luck" but there's a lot more to it than that, including Simon himself, of course. Rodgers hand was forced. You seem to give him a lot of credit when all he did was drop the lad. If BR had then gone in to oversee his training personally, then bring him back at the right moment before publicly declaring him new and improved, thus boosting his confidence then I'd agree with you.

As for Carroll I always thought he had lots to offer. Check back to the Carroll thread and you'll see it. All teams need variety up front and a target man is extremely useful. Might as well be Carroll. Don't call on his injuries. A squad player with our supposed game wouldn't play as much. He'd have been an England international on the books. One could argue (I have) that a good manager would want they option and have the know-how to utilise it. What was BR's (where's the committee on outgoing players?) decision? Tell the world he's too good for the longball (good ol' English footie eh?) game and sells Andy for £15m. Thankfully, with Suarez terrorising defences, teams and managers, BR's game plan often worked. But not always. Sometimes we oh so needed that big man. How many points were lost due to the lack of this option? How many did we fall short come the last game?

And so I point you to everything that happened this season. You know, the transfer committees making bad choices at inflated prices whilst BR puts his hands in his pockets and whistles, unable to get sweet f*ck all out of Balotelli, but confident of his get-out-of-jail-free card that Mario's a bad egg and better (worse, right?) managers than him have failed, though granted, not quite so miserably. And the committee, though given the funds from Suarez' sale, plus whatever else could be rustled up can blame the tight ars*d owners who won't let them sign a replacement for Luis, or indeed cover for the injury prone Sturridge.

Meanwhile, the helpless Brendan stands, hands in his pockets, still whistling, unable to influence that dastardly board and its dratted committee.

Yeah, give him manager of the century

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers is no stranger to odd statements and embarrassing soundbites, but something he said in the immediate aftermath of Liverpool's 1-1 draw at Chelsea on Sunday seems to have gone almost unnoticed outside of the Merseyside club's fanbase.

While much of the national discussion revolved around Steven Gerrard receiving (and then amusingly dismissing) a standing ovation from the Stamford Bridge crowd, Liverpool fans were left both mystified and angered by the casual explanation given by Rodgers for Gerrard's substitution.

"It was just to give him the acclaim of probably his last time playing here at Stamford Bridge."

Many Kopites have by now learned to take much of what the Northern Irishman says with a large pinch of salt. Whether he is declaring that there is no way he'd be signing Mario Balotelli a couple of weeks before doing just that, or denying interest in Memphis Depay after the young Dutchman instead opted for Manchester United, Rodgers is prone to, shall we say, bending the truth a little.

You can almost picture him quoting old Obi Wan Kenobi from Return of the Jedi. "What I told you was true... from a certain point of view." In his defence, he almost certainly didn't want Balotelli when he made those remarks and perhaps others at the club were pushing hardest for Depay; PSV's Technical Director claims he spoke to Ian Ayre and not Rodgers. Yet it's difficult to look at his explanation of why he replaced Gerrard and not think he's stretching the truth almost to its breaking point.

Hopefully Rodgers is being genuine because otherwise, he has more or less admitted that he put the needs of one man ahead of the good of the entire club. Not that Gerrard "needed," or even wanted, that ovation from the Chelsea crowd; he said as much himself afterwards, and he'd have much preferred to have been left on the field to try and help win the game for his team. He clearly looked far from happy at being replaced, which makes Rodgers' explanation all the more unacceptable, not to mention unbelievable.

Let's look at the facts. In a game Liverpool needed to win to keep alive any slim hopes of still making the top four, Rodgers substituted his leading goalscorer with the game finely balanced with 15 minutes left to play and then claimed he did it so Gerrard could receive the "acclaim" of Chelsea fans. Even leaving aside the fact that unless you're a few goals ahead, you withdraw a player for the "acclaim" in the 89th minute and not the 75th, does he not realise how utterly ridiculous that sounds?

Chelsea fans applauding Gerrard was surprising to say the least and no-one could have predicted it, least of all Rodgers. The idea that he knew it was going to happen is far-fetched in the extreme. Indeed, the smart money would have been on them jeering and mocking him, which is exactly what happened all afternoon aside from the 10 seconds of applause. The mocking chant about "the slip" rang around Stamford Bridge for most of the game and was actually at it's loudest as Gerrard prepared to take his seat on the bench.

By substituting Gerrard, Rodgers gave the Chelsea crowd exactly what they wanted. Not only were they spared the possibility that he may sign off with a winning goal against them, they were handed the opportunity to jeer him off the pitch while waving their embarrassing laminated signs at him. Some of them seized that opportunity, while others took the high ground and applauded a man who has been a worthy adversary for a number of years. The idea that Rodgers made that decision to benefit Gerrard though, is very difficult to believe.

It was surely a tactical decision so why not just say so? Perhaps he didn't want to appear disrespectful to Gerrard by giving his real reasons but by saying what he did, he made himself look foolish at best and conceited at worst.

Not only was his explanation of the decision unacceptable to many fans, the decision itself was contentious too. Gerrard may not be the player he once was but Liverpool are not the team they once were either, and the captain remains the man most likely to come up with a winning goal. He has traditionally been the man for the big occasion throughout his career, and while his acts of heroism have understandably become less frequent as he's gotten older, he's still been the man (along with Philippe Coutinho) most likely to deliver this season. His stunning free-kick in the Merseyside Derby, the brace that spared the Reds blushes against AFC Wimbledon, his winner in the closing stages against QPR last week, the equaliser at Stamford Bridge in Sunday's game...

Gerrard is Liverpool's leading goalscorer in the Premier League this season and their best chance of winning the game was surely with him on the pitch. Yet in a game where nothing but three points was of any use whatsoever to his team, Rodgers took off his main goal threat and sent on Lucas Leiva -- a man you bring on to close a game out, not to win it for you.

Rodgers is usually as positive a manager as you'll find, so this move was totally out of character. For once he appeared to be playing not to lose rather to win, and that's most unlike him. Is he feeling the pressure? Was this an act of self preservation by clinging to some kind of "moral victory" after drawing with the Champions on their own patch? Gerrard had been found wanting twice on Chelsea counter attacks in the minutes preceding his withdrawal, and that perhaps explains why Rodgers took him off. It does not justify it though.

Liverpool were in the closing stages of a must-win game and in that situation, you would normally be taking off defenders to throw on extra attackers. You would not be replacing a man who is your captain, leader, top goalscorer, penalty taker, free-kick specialist and who had been one of your best players on the day.

It was almost as if Rodgers felt that picking up a point at Chelsea was a good "face-saving" result. In normal circumstances he'd be right, but Liverpool's season was on the line and they should have been throwing everything they had at a Chelsea side who had essentially started their summer early. Liverpool did not throw everything at Chelsea in the closing stages; we even saw Martin Skrtel staying back on set-pieces and Simon Mignolet taking an eternity over a goal kick in stoppage time.

Liverpool's top four hopes were undone against Manchester United, West Brom and Hull City. Let's be clear there Failure to beat Chelsea is not the reason there will be no Champions League football at Anfield next season, but that doesn't excuse how readily Rodgers seemed to accept a draw. Nothing typified that more than taking off Steven Gerrard, whatever his actual reason.

Dave Usher Editor of 'The Liverpool Way'

Not my opinion as I would have started with Lucas anyway ,but its a pointer to how most Liverpool fans are genuinely convinced this is all about Brendan and how any
thoughts about the future of this club and the  feelings of supporters hold a disconcerting second place.