Liverpool FC Forum

by **Penguins** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:15 pm

But look at the picture in the long run!
That is a one way road to ****.

And imo a league and a cup competition are 2 different horses.
A 38 game league determine more the strenght of a squad than a cup where one game can make and brake everything.

You can focus on one opponent at a time and loose or draw one game can be salvaged by a win in the other.

But in the league the squad depth will be tested so much more
as there will be days when many players are missing and you can never salvage a bad loss or a draw with a win in the next game. A league is a marathon where if someone has an off day, injured fatigued(players aren't robots) other quality players in the squad will then step up and contribute.

If Torres is injured, Ngog steps in
If Drogba is injured, Anelka steps in.
If Roooney is injured Berbatov steps in.
If Aqualiani is injured Lucas plays.
Chelski have Ballack, Lampard, Deco, Mikel, etc
Hargreaves is injured won't matter for Manure as Carrick, Fletcher, Scholes etc is there.

by **Penguins** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:18 pm

dawson99 wrote:But he wasnt told the injury was fixed, he said he wouldnt play til October.. and right back shouldnt have been a priority. Everyon on the planet knew we needed another striker

But please, in an interview after Johnson was bought around the 20th of June Rafa cleary says he expected 2-3 more players to be bought and was optimistic. Then the refinansing date came along and those 2-3 new players never came.

Add 1+1 together and it was clear Rafa didn't expect that there would be no more money at all for him to spend.

by **tubby** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:21 pm

Penguins wrote:
dawson99 wrote:But he wasnt told the injury was fixed, he said he wouldnt play til October.. and right back shouldnt have been a priority. Everyon on the planet knew we needed another striker

But please, in an interview after Johnson was bought around the 20th of June Rafa cleary says he expected 2-3 more players to be bought and was optimistic. Then the refinansing date came along and those 2-3 new players never came.

Add 1+1 together and it was clear Rafa didn't expect that there would be no more money at all for him to spend.

Correct. He was expecting to spend more and that money was suddenly put towards the debt. He had his arms tied behind his back and all of a sudden he is the bad guy.

And Dawson I remember Rafa saying at the time he had Alberto examined and the doctors believe they had fixed what the issue was.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:26 pm

dawson99 wrote:The pro Rafa also fail to see the bigger picture.

We need a manager who has actually put on the Liverpool shirt I say. And yes, we need those two yank kunts out ASAP

Actually, I disagree with that. For the most part, people that support Rafa are all for the bigger picture.

by **dawson99** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:27 pm

ALL? balderdash sir.

At first it was all like that, but we've all gnoe so far either left or right with our opinions the pros now say Rafa does no wrong, the antis say he does no right.

Of course hes a good manager, but hes not doing for us anymore, he gotta go

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:34 pm

The vast majority of our squad has under-performed this season. Do we flog them off?

by **Penguins** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:34 pm

dawson99 wrote:ALL? balderdash sir.

At first it was all like that, but we've all gnoe so far either left or right with our opinions the pros now say Rafa does no wrong, the antis say he does no right.

Of course hes a good manager, but hes not doing for us anymore, he gotta go

I disagree, I think Rafa can do wrong and he does so on occasion, as any manger does.
I think he is an "ok" PL manager but no miracle worker.
He'll make is mistakes, make good buys, poorer buys like anyone else.

And imo, noone and I mean noone can take this forward and win titles as things stand right now.
And with the vermin calling the shoots, allow me to be very sceptical of which "not so ok yes man" they'll put in charge....

And even if I would manage the club for free, in the real world top class managers want money, both in wages and in transfer kitty. None will come to the sinking ship that is lfc right now, history or no history.

by **Penguins** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:38 pm

It isn't our history and past trophies that determines if we are a top club or not, it is our present situation.

Ask Nottingham, Leeds etc. So Nottingham has won many titles but are now a championship team.

There is no such thing as "too good to miss CL football, to good to gow down" etc.

Any club, if run poorly enough will fall, no matter what happened in the past.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:43 pm

Penguins wrote:
dawson99 wrote:ALL? balderdash sir.

At first it was all like that, but we've all gnoe so far either left or right with our opinions the pros now say Rafa does no wrong, the antis say he does no right.

Of course hes a good manager, but hes not doing for us anymore, he gotta go

I disagree, I think Rafa can do wrong and he does so on occasion, as any manger does.
I think he is an "ok" PL manager but no miracle worker.
He'll make is mistakes, make good buys, poorer buys like anyone else.

And imo, noone and I mean noone can take this forward and win titles as things stand right now.
And with the vermin calling the shoots, allow me to be very sceptical of which "not so ok yes man" they'll put in charge....

And even if I would manage the club for free, in the real world top class managers want money, both in wages and in transfer kitty. None will come to the sinking ship that is lfc right now, history or no history.

He's human, and is prone to mistakes. What some people want is an infallable machine that does no wrong and makes no mistakes whatsoever. If we had a manager like that, I dare say we'd still fail to land the league with the Yanks in charge. The man's job became almost untenable two seasons ago when the Klinsmann sh*te was doing the rounds and talk of his sacking was privalent in the media almost every single week for months. I dare say with better owners and better backing, we'd have probably won the title last season, or if not, kicked on from it this season. No real backing in two seasons is the result of this season. That is, of course, my view on it.

by **dawson99** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:44 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Penguins wrote:
dawson99 wrote:ALL? balderdash sir.

At first it was all like that, but we've all gnoe so far either left or right with our opinions the pros now say Rafa does no wrong, the antis say he does no right.

Of course hes a good manager, but hes not doing for us anymore, he gotta go

I disagree, I think Rafa can do wrong and he does so on occasion, as any manger does.
I think he is an "ok" PL manager but no miracle worker.
He'll make is mistakes, make good buys, poorer buys like anyone else.

And imo, noone and I mean noone can take this forward and win titles as things stand right now.
And with the vermin calling the shoots, allow me to be very sceptical of which "not so ok yes man" they'll put in charge....

And even if I would manage the club for free, in the real world top class managers want money, both in wages and in transfer kitty. None will come to the sinking ship that is lfc right now, history or no history.

He's human, and is prone to mistakes. What some people want is an infallable machine that does no wrong and makes no mistakes whatsoever. If we had a manager like that, I dare say we'd still fail to land the league with the Yanks in charge. The man's job became almost untenable two seasons ago when the Klinsmann sh*te was doing the rounds and talk of his sacking was privalent in the media almost every single week for months. I dare say with better owners and better backing, we'd have probably won the title last season, or if not, kicked on from it this season. No real backing in two seasons is the result of this season. That is, of course, my view on it.

Exactly my point, your view is clouded.

we'll never agree, doesnt matter what either of us say!

But I respect your view sir :buttrock

by **Igor Zidane** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:01 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Big Niall wrote:He wasted 38m last summer on a full back and a crock. He could have bought any full back for a couple of million (no world beater required) and spent 35m on a world class forward e.g. Tevez to play beside Torres (With SG and Masch in the middle) and to score our goals during Torres's his many injuries.

Only SG and Torres score goals regularly and Torres is often injured and SG getting more injury prone with the years.

Did Benitez not even google Aqualini's fitness before he spent a fortune on him? Why spend the balance on a full back leaving us with only one (injury prone) forward who can actually score.

The man is incompetant and should be fired - I am sickened the owners don't have a clause saying they can fire him if he fails to qualify for the CL.

7th place is a disgrace and he should be ashamed, do the honourable thing and quit, but these types never do, he'll hang on , just like Fred the shred for a massive payoff for being useless.

Give me examples of full backs we could have aqquired for 'a few mil'. How often have we let our first target slip? So id love to hear some names Nial.

And as for spending 35Mil on a world class forward what if that player turned out to be a crock or a flop? The lingo would then be 'Rafa wasted 35Mil on a crock striker, we could have picked up a decent one for 15Mil'.

It's too easy to judge on highnsight. Maybe he was advised otherwise on Aquilani that his injury was fixed? Wasn't there talk at the time that he was mistreated by doctors in Rome? I don't know what goes on behind the doors at Melwood and neither do you so quit with the Nostradamus footy .

I'm sorry Niall but your seriously deluding yourself if you think Rafa had the money to pay for Tevez's wages . We were at the begining of the season Fifth behind Chelsea, man city, arsenal and man u in highest wages league . With H+G deciding that wages were part of the tranfer kitty where were we getting the money from for Tevez . Money constraints dictated our transfers for four window's in a row now. We have not and cannot competed at the top end of the transfer market for a couple of season's .

by **zarababe** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:02 pm

Amazing - sopme p[pl say he should have signed Tevez.. who said he wouldn't play for us cos of the rivalry .. then everyone on here wanted Johnson.. and we payed the Market price for an English player.. the going rate. If we ahd lost ou there then there would have been further moans re: basement shopping.

Then we nuy Aqua.. and Man U buy Berba.. the difference they can afford to bench him we can't .. a tail of dealing and gambling that is the transfer market.

The there is Torres.. who the whole world and his wife wanna sign.. at any price now.. but no-one wanted to gamble whene Rafa did - he was overpriced then too according to some - in the media at least.. and so !

Rafa has bak,nced the books wheeled and dealed to do the best for this club.. you all sit and talk - your clueless :angry:

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:40 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Penguins wrote:
dawson99 wrote:ALL? balderdash sir.

At first it was all like that, but we've all gnoe so far either left or right with our opinions the pros now say Rafa does no wrong, the antis say he does no right.

Of course hes a good manager, but hes not doing for us anymore, he gotta go

I disagree, I think Rafa can do wrong and he does so on occasion, as any manger does.
I think he is an "ok" PL manager but no miracle worker.
He'll make is mistakes, make good buys, poorer buys like anyone else.

And imo, noone and I mean noone can take this forward and win titles as things stand right now.
And with the vermin calling the shoots, allow me to be very sceptical of which "not so ok yes man" they'll put in charge....

And even if I would manage the club for free, in the real world top class managers want money, both in wages and in transfer kitty. None will come to the sinking ship that is lfc right now, history or no history.

He's human, and is prone to mistakes. What some people want is an infallable machine that does no wrong and makes no mistakes whatsoever. If we had a manager like that, I dare say we'd still fail to land the league with the Yanks in charge. The man's job became almost untenable two seasons ago when the Klinsmann sh*te was doing the rounds and talk of his sacking was privalent in the media almost every single week for months. I dare say with better owners and better backing, we'd have probably won the title last season, or if not, kicked on from it this season. No real backing in two seasons is the result of this season. That is, of course, my view on it.

quoted your whole post but its the first sentence i wanted to discuss.

I agree with it, what i cant get my head round is....when we can all see these mistakes why does he persist in making them ?

1) Lucas and Mascherano centre midfield together 3 quarters of the season.
2. Same formation even when Torres is out and we have Ngog playing loan striker - alienating our only other world class player Gerrard as he doesnt get a kick.
3. Not signing a back up striker in Jan when we so clearly and desperately needed one and Torres's injury record was questionable to put it mild ?

Before people counter no3 with - we have no money.
We signed Maxi - who will not be on pennies.

by **Kharhaz** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:52 pm

Before people counter no3 with - we have no money.

Thats a tiresome argument. If you look at the money Chelsea and Man City have spent, which is a ridiculous amount, that hasnt made them world beaters, it has put them on the same level as the clubs already at the top. Also, having money doesnt guarantee success. For the money spent by Chelsea they have gone through quite a few managers, and I have no doubt Man City will go through the same thing. Also Man United, success has got them there money but again, the costly mistakes at that club is outrageous. £30 mill on berbatov has proved to be a disaster. Also take into account the massive amount spent on other flops there. Usually the biggest successes are those that cost next to nothing compared to others. Take Alonso, we made a nice profit on him.

So the having no money argument doesnt wash with me. Rafa has had money, he has just spent ludicrous amounts on players that we all know are simply not worth it. Keane for instance, Aquilani may turn out to be a good player but again, over priced and also Johnson. Those who say we only paid £8m for him as portsmouth owed us £9m, another argument that doesnt wash with me. They owed us which means that money was ours. It went towards Johnson. Over priced. So in all fairness, yes rafa has had the money, not as much as those above us, but certainly more than those below.

by **lakes10** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:20 am

ok for me its the a few of the big names that have not made it at our club, its more to do with the amount of players it has taken to get us to the team we have today

i know we talk alot about the 59 player ........but just think about it! 59 PLAYERS.

and we still dont have a strong team......and almost no bench.

you know what if Rafa had only taken 12 players to this club in the time he had been here, i dont think i would be so strong on my views that he should go.

yes i know some of that 59 are young kids.....but most are not that young anymorre and they have not done the job when put in the team.

yes the gunners have a strong kids team but now they ae also making good first team players.

i am sure any other manager in the prem that was given the chance and the money to build our team with 59 players we would be in better shape for the prem than we are now.

in my view Rafa has built a strong european that works well in the CL and EL, ok so what happend this year.

well it could be as easy as the team not bonding, looking back at the pre season games we all could see there was something wrong.

The spurs game was a joke, we had nothing to bring to the game, only when the sub was made did we even start to get the ball in their box. even old dirty Harry said Rafa had mad a mistake and if that player had started he think they might have lost the game.

59 PLAYERS AND WE STILL DONT HAVE A TEAM THAT WORKS WELL IN THE ENGLISH PREM.

the thing is untill last week RAFA has never said he has got it wrong, well again if he had come out sooner or more often and said that then he might of had more backing ftom fans like me aslong as he acted on it.

I dont think he understandS the prem and i still do feel that he thinks he can put any liverpool team out to play the lower clubs and we will wn......due to the fear of our name.....it dont work like that in England and never has....ok well in the 80's every team had a fear of Liverpool and they never counted on getting point when the had us.

Rafa is a great european manager and one of the best CL managers you can get, but his ideas dont work in the prem, he has built a team that is european and try to play the european way in the prem, the problem is that the key man in the team is English and dont get it, he finds it hard to play the way Rafa like and finds himself often in places that he dont lke players and doing rolls he is not that good at.

I you are happy to win the CL or EL then Rafa is you man

I you wish to see us win the prem than it is time to look for a new manager.

a new manager is going to find it very hard to buils a team with our owners still there but there is money there....where i hear you ask.....well its in the players that Rafa got to build his european team.

I am not talking about the few that have made is, i am talking about the ones that just dont cut it at our club.

on this night 21 years ago 96 fans took to their bed with the love of liverpool with them and the excitement of seeing their team in the Semi-Final in the morning, they never made it back to their beds but the love from their club and the rest of us fans will always be with them.

RIP Marion Hazel McCabe

God bless all the 96

Liverpool FC Forum

RAFA BENITEZ LEAVES LIVERPOOL - Official Thread, includes merged threads

Who is online