RAFA BENITEZ LEAVES LIVERPOOL - Official Thread, includes merged threads

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Kerry07 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:00 am

Paul C wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:After the wolves game........"we are improving" and "i was pleased with the performance of the players"

fukk sake rafa, 1 shot on target vs one of the worst teams in the league and we are improving?

i wouldnt mind if he was honest, but you never get honesty from him, just lies and delusion.

in RAFA we cant trust, cause of the delusion

*cough* Gerard Houllier *cough*  :;):

Thats it exactly...from Houlli to Rafa, folks we got ourselves another bluffer.

I stopped listening to Rafa years ago..cannot relate to the man at all. Hes eccentric, delusional, he isn't on the same page as the rest of us.. is incapable of conversing normally as he never answers the question asked and goes off in some wacky tangent and repeats rhymed off soundbites. Whether this is because his English is limited or he has poor social skills i aint sure (tho i tend to feel its the latter having read what he was like as a kid as he was poor at interacting with people, even his dad). There are signs of Aspergers syndrome.

Every single player says the same...its a professional relationship with him, it didnt even occur to him to congratulate Nando on his kid after everyone else at the training ground had done, but instead he talked to a bemused Nando about a near post run he had made the previous game. He doesnt quite get people...but hes great at statistics, black and white stuff...."fachts".
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Postby LFC2007 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:10 am

Kerry07 wrote:Thats it exactly...from Houlli to Rafa, folks we got ourselves another bluffer.

I stopped listening to Rafa years ago..cannot relate to the man at all. Hes eccentric, delusional, he isn't on the same page as the rest of us.. is incapable of conversing normally as he never answers the question asked and goes off in some wacky tangent and repeats rhymed off soundbites. Whether this is because his English is limited or he has poor social skills i aint sure (tho i tend to feel its the latter having read what he was like as a kid as he was poor at interacting with people, even his dad). There are signs of Aspergers syndrome.

Every single player says the same...its a professional relationship with him, it didnt even occur to him to congratulate Nando on his kid after everyone else at the training ground had done, but instead he talked to a bemused Nando about a near post run he had made the previous game. He doesnt quite get people...but hes great at statistics, black and white stuff...."fachts".

Oh dear  :no
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Postby Ben Patrick » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:12 am

Kerry07 wrote:
Paul C wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:After the wolves game........"we are improving" and "i was pleased with the performance of the players"

fukk sake rafa, 1 shot on target vs one of the worst teams in the league and we are improving?

i wouldnt mind if he was honest, but you never get honesty from him, just lies and delusion.

in RAFA we cant trust, cause of the delusion

*cough* Gerard Houllier *cough*  :;):

Thats it exactly...from Houlli to Rafa, folks we got ourselves another bluffer.

I stopped listening to Rafa years ago..cannot relate to the man at all. Hes eccentric, delusional, he isn't on the same page as the rest of us.. is incapable of conversing normally as he never answers the question asked and goes off in some wacky tangent and repeats rhymed off soundbites. Whether this is because his English is limited or he has poor social skills i aint sure (tho i tend to feel its the latter having read what he was like as a kid as he was poor at interacting with people, even his dad). There are signs of Aspergers syndrome.

Every single player says the same...its a professional relationship with him, it didnt even occur to him to congratulate Nando on his kid after everyone else at the training ground had done, but instead he talked to a bemused Nando about a near post run he had made the previous game. He doesnt quite get people...but hes great at statistics, black and white stuff...."fachts".

deary me  :D
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Postby Owzat » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:17 am

Sabre wrote:
made in UK wrote:
Dinger wrote:How ever you look at it, we are 3 points away from 4th spot.

I look at the fact that our on field performances are the worst I can remember. We're not able to string any results together, the players look lost, so does the manager.

Hence the reason why I don't think we'll finnish fourth.

I also think we are witnessing the worst football in a long time.

But I think our players and our manager are capable of coming back from that situation and play to a level of football we have known for the last years.

And that's the reason why I think we'll get in the fourth place, because playing awfully we're 3 points off that position, and because I truly think we can only improve from this position. It's difficult to play so wrong for so much time.

If the players and the manager are together, they will improve.

If Rafa has lost the trust of the players, then he should go. But I'm not aware of that and I'm not a body language interpreter.

The crux statement you've made Sabre is this one:

[b]I think our players and our manager are capable of coming back from that situation and play to a level of football we have known for the last years.

I say no more, no less, that's as much as Rafa and his players will be capable of and the only way we'll get out of this top 5-6 rut we're stuck in is to change something - the manager, the owners (for rich ones) or the players (kinda depending on the previous 'change' if you subscribe to the general consensus)

We've had good seasons, we've had ordinary ones. We've won trophies, we've gone for seasons without them. We've hit and passed 80 points, we've failed to finish in the top five or finished with modest points (68 & 76) which are nowhere near the title challengers. So are we any better off than we were under Evans and Houllier? Bear in mind qualifying for the Champions League extends to four places at the moment and we're struggling for one of those. And that isn't because one team has bought lots of players or nailed it down with a great points tally for this stage of the season, the rest have tripped over themselves trying to let us back into contention and we trip over trying not to take it - drawing at Stoke and Wolves for example.

Whether Rafa has "lost the trust of the players" or not, surely whether he should go should be based on results, performances, style and crucially how likely we look to win the league. The tricky bit is what you base that on, well results is going to be the hardest as you have good runs and bad runs, good seasons and bad seasons so establishing what is the norm is tricky. But style and performances are weak, results are inconsistent so regardless whether you call our current form a "blip" / "below par" or consider last season a "one-off", inconsistency is the key. In six seasons Rafa hasn't instilled any, in six more I bet he still wouldn't have.

Perhaps the biggest mistake at LFC was awarding Rafa such a long contract at a point he'd still a lot to prove. After a good season you wait to see what comes next, not instantly believe that you've done all you need to and next season is a given for improvement. We should have learned from 05/06 when we finished on 82 points then followed it up with 68 the next season.

Although a lot of people will doubtless cite bad luck, decisions going against us and INJURIES, I just had a look at the same stage in previous seasons and here's an interesting quick stat :

TORRES PREMIERSHIP APPS (AFTER 23 GAMES) :

09/10 : 12 goals in 15 apps
08/09 : 5 goals in 12 apps
07/08 : 11 goals in 21 apps

So while Torres has missed games this season, he'd played less games last season after 23 Premiership games and he's scored more goals this season than he had even when he'd played in 21 Premiership games back in 07/08! Torres scored hat-tricks against boro and West Ham. playing 12 of the last 13 league games and scoring 13 goals in 07/08, scored 9 goals playing in 12 of the last 13 league games of 08/09.

If we are overdependant on Torres and Gerrard then that doesn't reflect greatly on Rafa either, spent £11.5m on Babel and £20.3m on Keane and those ranged between poor and disastrous when better signings might have taken us away from our "two man team" tag. Now he's signed a £20m Italian and it seems he prefers him sat on the bench than actually playing and maybe winning us football games.

I think his tenure will depend on finishing fourth, my feeling is this season has been all too similar to his first season in charge and we could trip up and let someone else in. It's not a side as ordinary as the bitters this season, nor is it likely their paltry points tally of 04/05 will secure fourth. More likely we have to buck our ideas up, while we do have a few of the strugglers to play this season we've already dropped too many silly points. Ironically the only Premiership side Sunderland have beaten since beachball beat us is Arsenal, and Kenwyne Jones has scored just once since the first week of October - how much are we considering paying for him?!?
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Postby made in UK » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:43 am

Cracking post Owzat
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Postby Redman in wales » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:30 am

Dinger wrote:
dawson99 wrote:
Dinger wrote:How ever you look at it, we are 3 points away from 4th spot.

I prefer to say 13th from top, and played a game more... not good enough

So at the start of the season you thought we were going to win the league and that nothing else was acceptable? I'm not trying to say that we are having a good season it's plain that infact were having a pretty poor season, but a more than halfway through a rubbish season and still in with a decent shout at getting 4th spot. Life could be worse.
Don't get me wrong, we have not been good enough this year and if there are no decent players coming in in the summer, next year could be even worse. But there are positives to been seen, namely we can get into the top 4 and make sure were not uber skint for the summer.

no, but we're 11 points off 3rd place. That's not good enough either.

We shouldn't be as you put it:
still in with a decent shout at getting 4th spot


We''re bette than that.

Its not the fact that at the start of the season we were going to win the league and nothing else was good enough... Its the fact that we should be in with a decent shout at getting in the top two.
Last edited by Redman in wales on Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sabre » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:53 am

but hes great at statistics, black and white stuff...."fachts".


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Postby Sabre » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:57 am

no, but we're 11 points off 3rd place. That's not good enough either.


Of course it is not.

This season is like Emerald's signature, it says it all, it's being awful.

Once I admit that, I still trust in the manager, just as I thought Wenger was a good manager even in the seasons he struggled.

But I understand the people wanting a change.


still in with a decent shout at getting 4th spot 


More than a decent shout, I'd use the english expression "Save the day".
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Postby Sir Roger » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:57 am

Why doesnt someone like the Spirit of Shankly sit down with Rafa and tell him some home truths?
Surely he would listen to the fans?
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Postby Ciggy » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:14 am

Kerry07 wrote:There are signs of Aspergers syndrome.

OMG Haha seriously WTF?
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Postby bunglemark2 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:20 am

Owzat wrote:Although a lot of people will doubtless cite bad luck, decisions going against us and INJURIES, I just had a look at the same stage in previous seasons and here's an interesting quick stat :

TORRES PREMIERSHIP APPS (AFTER 23 GAMES) :

09/10 : 12 goals in 15 apps
08/09 : 5 goals in 12 apps
07/08 : 11 goals in 21 apps

So while Torres has missed games this season, he'd played less games last season after 23 Premiership games and he's scored more goals this season than he had even when he'd played in 21 Premiership games back in 07/08! Torres scored hat-tricks against boro and West Ham. playing 12 of the last 13 league games and scoring 13 goals in 07/08, scored 9 goals playing in 12 of the last 13 league games of 08/09.

Ehhhh, no it isn't....just like all of your posts sunshine...dull as phuck...
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Postby shawnk » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:04 am

made in UK wrote:
Dinger wrote:How ever you look at it, we are 3 points away from 4th spot.

I look at the fact that our on field performances are the worst I can remember. We're not able to string any results together, the players look lost, so does the manager.

Hence the reason why I don't think we'll finnish fourth.

Agree. And we continue to play :censored: like this we'll need a lot of luck to get the fourth place as the rest of the pack are playing decent or better football. We may be 3 points away but in the long run, with our current performance, we wont make it.
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Postby Boocity » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:22 am

Redman in wales wrote:
Boocity wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but the only time I can remember tactical substitutions changing a game was Istanbul, and that was partly forced.

Its not as if last night was a one off with regards to subs, it could be the fear of a tactical substitution going wrong and us losing the game. Rafa will never throw caution to the wind, he is not that type of person, not creative enough.

corrected. your wrong. I could list endless ones, but here's two:

last season, Liverpool 3 man city 2 : liverpool 2-1 down on 70 minutes. Rafa brings keane on for masherano (striker on for a defensive midfielder). Liverpool then score 2 goals and win 3-2

Liverpool 3 Portsmouth 2 : on 70 minutes liverpool drawing 1-1. rafa makes 3 substitutions, we win the game 3-2

tactical substitutions work all the time, I'd say nearly ever week in football. Its just that rafa doesn't use them very often.

Thanks for correcting me, so its three times in five years and when Rafa does throw caution to the wind it pays off. He should do that more often.

Rafa and some posters can go on about it being a point won and not getting beat but however you look at it, draws are not going to get us into the top four. It was draws that cost us the title last year.
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Postby Reg » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:57 am

Benitez gets tax-free offer from Juventus  -The Independant

Italian giants prepare contract worth £2.6m a year net to tempt the Liverpool manager away from Anfield

Thursday, 28 January 2010
The intrigue surrounding Juventus' interest in Rafael Benitez deepened last night with sources in Italy suggesting that the Turin side have seen the Liverpool manager's contract and have drawn up a new one with a €3m (£2.6m) salary, which they believe might be enough to attract him.

Benitez earns £4.6m gross a year at Liverpool but Juventus believe that the nature of the Italian tax system would enable them to pay him €3m and pay his tax themselves. One of the fears at Juventus is that Benitez would want to bring a sizeable and expensive backroom staff with him, if attracted to the Stadio Olimpico. But the Turin side have been led to believe that only two staff would move with him from Anfield – Benitez's assistant Mauricio Pellegrino and his goalkeeping coach Xavi Valero – and that Benitez would accept an Italian assistant coach in any future regime, an issue of deep significance to the club.

Benitez's agent Manuel Garcia Quilon did not dismiss the Benitez-Juventus link on Monday though he insisted on Tuesday that the Spaniard wanted to stay at Liverpool and with Benitez aware that his future will come under review this summer, there are grounds for viewing the speculation being fuelled in Italy as deliberate machinations to bolster his Anfield position. Juventus incumbent Ciro Ferrera is on the brink of dismissal, though as of last night he was still in situ for the club's Coppa Italia tie with Internazionale.

The Liverpool manager was not willing to discuss the issue after the dismal goalless draw at Wolves on Tuesday night and though the reticence was typical of him, it hardly created the spirit of unity which the club need as they attempt to build from a position of "hurt" – as captain Steven Gerrard described their current predicament yesterday in the light of that result.

Gerrard has said ahead of Saturday's home match with Bolton that Liverpool need maximum points from that fixture and the following weekend's game at home to Everton. "We believe we've turned the corner," Gerrard said. "We've got two home games coming up and if we can take maximum points, we'll be closer to where we want to be. There are a lot of people in the dressing room who are hurt at seeing us lying in seventh and eighth position and you learn a lot from these situations when times are hard."

There was little to draw much encouragement from in the game at Molineux though four clean sheets from five is something and Sotorios Kyrgiakos is a player who has defied his critics in the past two games. Failing to keep clean sheets is "where we were going wrong," Gerrard said. "That's why we found ourselves seventh and eighth in the table because we were conceding too many goals. We weren't getting the results, but we know if we defend well as a base and keep clean sheets we'll win more than we lose."

Dynamo Moscow want to attract Yossi Benayoun from Liverpool and there has been contact with Anfield from the Russians, though the club are not willing to sell one of their most creative players. Benayoun is current out of the side with a rib injury.
++

If Rafa has a 4 year contract, isnt this 'tapping up'?
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Postby Boocity » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:02 pm

If we are not complaining about tapping up, make you wonder if the owners are passively encouraging it.
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