Liverpool FC Forum

by **Redman in wales** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:23 am

Boocity wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but the only time I can remember tactical substitutions changing a game was Istanbul, and that was partly forced.

Its not as if last night was a one off with regards to subs, it could be the fear of a tactical substitution going wrong and us losing the game. Rafa will never throw caution to the wind, he is not that type of person, not creative enough.

corrected. your wrong. I could list endless ones, but here's two:

last season, Liverpool 3 man city 2 : liverpool 2-1 down on 70 minutes. Rafa brings keane on for masherano (striker on for a defensive midfielder). Liverpool then score 2 goals and win 3-2

Liverpool 3 Portsmouth 2 : on 70 minutes liverpool drawing 1-1. rafa makes 3 substitutions, we win the game 3-2

tactical substitutions work all the time, I'd say nearly ever week in football. Its just that rafa doesn't use them very often.

by **Big Niall** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:38 am

bunglemark2 wrote:Nialler, I'll start by saying I agree that Rafa is wrecking just about everyone's head at the moment. And granted last night - again ! - was another fiasco. If the Juve thing DID come to pass though, the whole management structure of the club (LFC) will have to be reinvented AGAIN from scratch, 'cos most of the guys in the various positions right now are Rafa's choice. So it's not just the first team that goes to pot - it's much more than that. And realistically I don't see why Rafa would go to Juve when the Serie A clubs are as quick to fire a manager as they are in the PL. What might work in his favour though is the focus on defence in that league - that's prob. more palatable to an Italian club than to us.

Fair enough - but if a team isn't going in the right direction then you have to get rid of the management and coaching staff. No point in continuing in the wrong direction.

by **Boocity** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:44 am

Big Niall wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Nialler, I'll start by saying I agree that Rafa is wrecking just about everyone's head at the moment. And granted last night - again ! - was another fiasco. If the Juve thing DID come to pass though, the whole management structure of the club (LFC) will have to be reinvented AGAIN from scratch, 'cos most of the guys in the various positions right now are Rafa's choice. So it's not just the first team that goes to pot - it's much more than that. And realistically I don't see why Rafa would go to Juve when the Serie A clubs are as quick to fire a manager as they are in the PL. What might work in his favour though is the focus on defence in that league - that's prob. more palatable to an Italian club than to us.

Fair enough - but if a team isn't going in the right direction then you have to get rid of the management and coaching staff. No point in continuing in the wrong direction.

Talking about coaching staff, do you think Sammy is adding anything to the party, he was under Big Sam and had a disatrous spell as manager at Bolton.

What about Pellegrino, Rafa seems to consult with him a lot during games.

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:52 am

Is anyone that surprised by the performance and result last night ?
I wasnt.
I dont think Rafa intended to be ultra defensive or cautious last night, its just that he has created a squad that isnt good enough in an attacking sense.
Dirk worked hard against Spurs and played well but if we are forced to have him as a lone striker for a number of games we are unlikely to score many or look much of a threat.
Thats obvious to anyone.
We continue to play a system that was great when we had someone in midfield that could pick a pass and a lone striker that can lead the line on his own...when we dont have these key players in the team.
If you were an opposing manager you would be made up.
It must be very easy to stop us playing and creating chances.
The last 20 minutes of the spurs game aside we have created hardly anything in any game.
The Stoke game we must have had about 3 attempts on goal in 90 minutes.
I seriously think at this moment in time we are predictable and easy to play against and if we dont get a change in manager soon we will not make the top 4.

Seriously worried now me.

by **Redman in wales** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:05 am

Ben Patrick wrote:Is anyone that surprised by the performance and result last night ?
I wasnt.
I dont think Rafa intended to be ultra defensive or cautious last night, its just that he has created a squad that isnt good enough in an attacking sense.
Dirk worked hard against Spurs and played well but if we are forced to have him as a lone striker for a number of games we are unlikely to score many or look much of a threat.
Thats obvious to anyone.
We continue to play a system that was great when we had someone in midfield that could pick a pass and a lone striker that can lead the line on his own...when we dont have these key players in the team.

except for one man. Rafa Benitez.

by **Boocity** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:13 am

In all the time Rafa has been here, its pretty obvious he is totally single minded and stubborn and as long as he believes he has the backing of the supporters nothing will change

by **Reg** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:43 am

Big Niall wrote:
Reg wrote:Against this constant litany of criticism of Rafa I find it bemusing no one ever blames the players for these sh!t performances.

I didnt realise Rafa played centreforward and was expected to net 30 times a season as well as dominate midfield, play alongside Carra and save last minute penalties. He probably passes round the oranges at half time as well.

If thats the case then you're right, he's clearly overweight and not upto it!

Who bought and sold to get this group of players? who picks the team etc?

The players are the managers responsiblity.

Ideally Juve will come in for him and it won't cost us a penny to get rid of him. I wouldn't be surprised if a deal is done where LFC have to pay some of his wages (Like City with Robinho) just to get rid of him.

Lfc surrendered all power when they stupidly gave him a long term contract (lucky sod, just happened to be top of the table for the only time in his career in England - talk about timing!!)

From the reports I´ve read it appears the players didnt give a toss and showed a complete lack of desire to win?

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:48 am

Reg wrote:Against this constant litany of criticism of Rafa I find it bemusing no one ever blames the players for these sh!t performances.

I didnt realise Rafa played centreforward and was expected to net 30 times a season as well as dominate midfield, play alongside Carra and save last minute penalties. He probably passes round the oranges at half time as well.

If thats the case then you're right, he's clearly overweight and not upto it!

Reg mate you know im on the Rafa love train, yes i blame the players but im sorry last night was down to Rafa he could of changed it mate it was so negative it was boring first time this season ive been at the match were everyone is looking at each other and you know there thinking wtf, one sub whats that. Sorry but last night was down to Rafa,
Im still on the train though might be getting shunted at the mo but im still in me seat :;):

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:49 am

Reg wrote:
Big Niall wrote:
Reg wrote:Against this constant litany of criticism of Rafa I find it bemusing no one ever blames the players for these sh!t performances.

I didnt realise Rafa played centreforward and was expected to net 30 times a season as well as dominate midfield, play alongside Carra and save last minute penalties. He probably passes round the oranges at half time as well.

If thats the case then you're right, he's clearly overweight and not upto it!

Who bought and sold to get this group of players? who picks the team etc?

The players are the managers responsiblity.

Ideally Juve will come in for him and it won't cost us a penny to get rid of him. I wouldn't be surprised if a deal is done where LFC have to pay some of his wages (Like City with Robinho) just to get rid of him.

Lfc surrendered all power when they stupidly gave him a long term contract (lucky sod, just happened to be top of the table for the only time in his career in England - talk about timing!!)

From the reports I´ve read it appears the players didnt give a toss and showed a complete lack of desire to win?

What's that supposed to mean ?

You have read reports that have stated that the players dont give a toss ?

From who ?

My take is that they do care but they just think that they are not going to win feck all again and have allowed it to affect them.
Ave played in games myself where you have been losing and know you cant get it back and players just seem to give in.
Our season is a virtual write off and the players appear to have written it off too.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:23 pm

After the wolves game........"we are improving" and "i was pleased with the performance of the players"

fukk sake rafa, 1 shot on target vs one of the worst teams in the league and we are improving?

i wouldnt mind if he was honest, but you never get honesty from him, just lies and delusion.

in RAFA we cant trust, cause of the delusion

by **Reg** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:30 pm

What do you expect when the media expects a countless stream of comments from him. I can imagine it would quickly become a case of Jackanory.

by **red till i die!!** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:35 pm

have to agree his post match interviews suck and tbh ive given up watching them.
its been the same old response for as long as i care to remember and doubt it will ever change.
same drivel win lose or draw!!
:laugh:

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:36 pm

Reg wrote:What do you expect when the media expects a countless stream of comments from him. I can imagine it would quickly become a case of Jackanory.

Its the same for every manager, they are expected to give a post match interview.

I actually agree with the thread starter. While you dont want Rafa to come out and slag everyone off, i would prefer an honest assesment of the match.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:36 pm

red till i die!! wrote:have to agree his post match interviews suck and tbh ive given up watching them.
its been the same old response for as long as i care to remember and doubt it will ever change.
same drivel win lose or draw!!

after we beat spurs harry redknapp admitted they were the worse team and we deserved to win

id spit me food out if we ever heard such honesty from rafa

by **shawnk** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:49 pm

I just hope he doesn't actually think the team was actually playing well. Because if he thinks there's no problem, he wont change things.

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