Liverpool FC Forum

by **Fauxy** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:25 pm

Im the same, enough is enough.

Take the job in Juventus Rafa.

by **Reg** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:26 pm

Dundalk wrote:`I just sat through the Wolves match and all the players on the field just didnt want to play.`

`What needed to be done by the manager wasnt and it was as if he was happy enough with a draw.`

`At the end of the day the manager of Liverpool Football Club has to do what is best for Liverpool Football club and the manager we have at the moment is not doing that.`

DD, clearly there is malaise throughout Anfield, maybe there is an agenda, maybe there is a major row going on, maybe Rafa is talking to Juve.

One day the truth will come out and we'll better understand what is/was truely going on.

Rafa is doing his job but the problem is FAR greater than team selection.

We've had our worst start in years, major player injuries and weaknesses in our squad apparant for the world to see and the owners response? Not a penny. With a 4 year contract to cash in, why should Rafa give a tommytit at the moment?

Frustrating for sure, painful. I wonder what Purslow's response would be.

by **Dundalk** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:34 pm

I couldt agree more Reg there is something Rotten going on in the club and it will probably be a long time before we find out exactly what it is but at this stage I think something has to change. That something is Rafa, he looks like he has lost the dressing room and they dont want to play for him. The results have not been even nearly good enough nthis season. I mean when you actually sit down and look at some of them they are frightening...

Liverpool 1-2 Lyon
Fulham 3-1 Liverpool
Liverpool 2-2 Birmingham
Liverpool 1-2 Fiorentina
Porstmouth 2-0 Liverpool
Liverpool 1-2 Reading
Wolves 0-0 Liverpool

That is not what we have come to expect from ANY Liverpool team

by **teamleader1** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:34 pm

What happened to that 'latest' corner we just turned against Spurs?

by **red37** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:16 am

rafa2juve wrote:
Reg wrote:
Dundalk wrote:`I just sat through the Wolves match and all the players on the field just didnt want to play.`

`What needed to be done by the manager wasnt and it was as if he was happy enough with a draw.`

`At the end of the day the manager of Liverpool Football Club has to do what is best for Liverpool Football club and the manager we have at the moment is not doing that.`

DD, clearly there is malaise throughout Anfield, maybe there is an agenda, maybe there is a major row going on, maybe Rafa is talking to Juve.

One day the truth will come out and we'll better understand what is/was truely going on.

Rafa is doing his job but the problem is FAR greater than team selection.

We've had our worst start in years, major player injuries and weaknesses in our squad apparant for the world to see and the owners response? Not a penny. With a 4 year contract to cash in, why should Rafa give a tommytit at the moment?

Frustrating for sure, painful. I wonder what Purslow's response would be.

so what is Rafa's job then, is it to make sure Liverpool don't trouble the top teams? Becasue if it then he is doing a fantastic job.

Farewell.

by **Kharhaz** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:03 am

Its hard to raise the "he has lost the dressing room" argument when you consider the result and performance against spurs. I do however think that his negative tactics are having an effect. We were playing wolves away. The fact we are playing them away, is that what made rafa choose a negative tactic? Doesnt matter what team we are playing against, first things first, defend. Lets make sure we dont concede.

I think this is along the lines of what rafa said to the players. Rather than say, "right lets build from last week and attack attack attack" he went back to the defensive style and thus just depressing the players. You could see last night they looked lost. The ball was hoofed to the front while we kept men back to ensure a clean sheet. If we get depressed watching this dross, then surely the players are as fed up as they are following what rafa told them to do.

by **puroresu** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:16 am

We didnt play well v spurs. We just managed to bring them down to our level.

I just wish after a game like tonight he would say "We were not good enough tonight and it was a very poor performance". The fans aint stupid and dont need to be told the side worked hard.

by **Owzat** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:47 am

Dundalk wrote:I couldt agree more Reg there is something Rotten going on in the club and it will probably be a long time before we find out exactly what it is but at this stage I think something has to change. That something is Rafa, he looks like he has lost the dressing room and they dont want to play for him. The results have not been even nearly good enough nthis season. I mean when you actually sit down and look at some of them they are frightening...

Liverpool 1-2 Lyon
Fulham 3-1 Liverpool
Liverpool 2-2 Birmingham
Liverpool 1-2 Fiorentina
Porstmouth 2-0 Liverpool
Liverpool 1-2 Reading
Wolves 0-0 Liverpool

That is not what we have come to expect from ANY Liverpool team

What makes the Lyon and Fiorentina results even worse is neither is doing that well in their domestic leagues. Add to that Debrecen are and were :censored:

and the big question mark hangs over how we didn't score more than one goal in ANY of our CL games.

Lyon are 5th in France, ELEVEN points off top having played the same number of games. They could go second on GD if results go their way, but Marseille could stop that if they win a game in hand (same number of points, superior GD) But France isn't a great league, not one we should be losing at home to Lyon (or Marseille back when)

Fiorentina are TENTH in Serie A, they do have a game in hand on most sides above them but even a win would move them up to sixth at best and still SIXTEEN points behind Inter, also seven behind Milan in second IF they won that game in hand. They've lost more league games this season than we have (8 vs 7)

Losing away to them mightn't have been the worst sin, but we should have engineered a win at home against either and added another point which, with six points against Debrecen, would have seen us through. We even took the lead in three of the games, lost two and drew in France. If plan A doesn't work, and it's more like plan Z than plan A, then there is no plan B.

Rafa perhaps works on 'faith' and most of that is in his tactics and less the players so he figures that his formation, tactics and substitutions will never be wrong, it will be the players can't impliment his tactics as he dreams them working. So rather than adapt formation, tactics etc so the players can work with it, he stubbornly refuses to accept it might be the wrong formation, tactics etc for the players (available) IF we had a fully fit squad to choose from, I'd still not be sure the system that worked last system will work this. No Alonso and no Arbeloa is the key, their replacements aren't like for like exactly and so the system struggles. Did we do so well last season because of the system or in spite of it? One thing is for sure, in my mind and in those of most LFC fans, two DMs won't work with Lucas alongside Mascherano as it has little creativity, all graft and little craft.

by **Reg** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:56 am

Against this constant litany of criticism of Rafa I find it bemusing no one ever blames the players for these sh!t performances.

I didnt realise Rafa played centreforward and was expected to net 30 times a season as well as dominate midfield, play alongside Carra and save last minute penalties. He probably passes round the oranges at half time as well.

If thats the case then you're right, he's clearly overweight and not upto it! :laugh:

by **Redman in wales** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:35 am

Dundalk wrote:Liverpool 1-2 Lyon
Fulham 3-1 Liverpool
Liverpool 2-2 Birmingham
Liverpool 1-2 Fiorentina
Porstmouth 2-0 Liverpool
Liverpool 1-2 Reading
Wolves 0-0 Liverpool

That is not what we have come to expect from ANY Liverpool team

..

stoke 1-1 Liverpool

Sunderland 1-0 Liverpool

...and only manageing two 1-0 victories over debrecen, which a liverpool of old would have spanked 5 or 6 nill

by **Redman in wales** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:42 am

Reg wrote:Against this constant litany of criticism of Rafa I find it bemusing no one ever blames the players for these sh!t performances.

I didnt realise Rafa played centreforward and was expected to net 30 times a season as well as dominate midfield, play alongside Carra and save last minute penalties. He probably passes round the oranges at half time as well.

If thats the case then you're right, he's clearly overweight and not upto it!

players can be blamed for sh.it performances... but when those performances are consistant throughout the season, then the buck has to stop with the manager

It's his job as coach to motivate the players, and when the chips are down, then he has to do something about it.

He may not be on the field himself, but he does have the power to change things on the field, by making tacticle substitions during a game. Against wolves, there was one which involved taking off our most attacking threat on the pitch, and in a game which was going nowhere, there was still mash and lucas on the field and babel, pacheco, aquilani onn the bench. - He DOES have some influence on the field, but choses not to use it.

by **Boocity** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:55 am

Redman in wales wrote:
Reg wrote:Against this constant litany of criticism of Rafa I find it bemusing no one ever blames the players for these sh!t performances.

I didnt realise Rafa played centreforward and was expected to net 30 times a season as well as dominate midfield, play alongside Carra and save last minute penalties. He probably passes round the oranges at half time as well.

If thats the case then you're right, he's clearly overweight and not upto it!

players can be blamed for sh.it performances... but when those performances are consistant throughout the season, then the buck has to stop with the manager

It's his job as coach to motivate the players, and when the chips are down, then he has to do something about it.

He may not be on the field himself, but he does have the power to change things on the field, by making tacticle substitions during a game. Against wolves, there was one which involved taking off our most attacking threat on the pitch, and in a game which was going nowhere, there was still mash and lucas on the field and babel, pacheco, aquilani onn the bench. - He DOES have some influence on the field, but choses not to use it.

Correct me if I am wrong but the only time I can remember tactical substitutions changing a game was Istanbul, and that was partly forced.

Its not as if last night was a one off with regards to subs, it could be the fear of a tactical substitution going wrong and us losing the game. Rafa will never throw caution to the wind, he is not that type of person, not creative enough.

by **Big Niall** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:01 am

Reg wrote:Against this constant litany of criticism of Rafa I find it bemusing no one ever blames the players for these sh!t performances.

I didnt realise Rafa played centreforward and was expected to net 30 times a season as well as dominate midfield, play alongside Carra and save last minute penalties. He probably passes round the oranges at half time as well.

If thats the case then you're right, he's clearly overweight and not upto it!

Who bought and sold to get this group of players? who picks the team etc?

The players are the managers responsiblity.

Ideally Juve will come in for him and it won't cost us a penny to get rid of him. I wouldn't be surprised if a deal is done where LFC have to pay some of his wages (Like City with Robinho) just to get rid of him.

Lfc surrendered all power when they stupidly gave him a long term contract (lucky sod, just happened to be top of the table for the only time in his career in England - talk about timing!!)

by **bunglemark2** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:08 am

Nialler, I'll start by saying I agree that Rafa is wrecking just about everyone's head at the moment. And granted last night - again ! - was another fiasco. If the Juve thing DID come to pass though, the whole management structure of the club (LFC) will have to be reinvented AGAIN from scratch, 'cos most of the guys in the various positions right now are Rafa's choice. So it's not just the first team that goes to pot - it's much more than that. And realistically I don't see why Rafa would go to Juve when the Serie A clubs are as quick to fire a manager as they are in the PL. What might work in his favour though is the focus on defence in that league - that's prob. more palatable to an Italian club than to us.

by **shawnk** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:17 am

teamleader1 wrote:What happened to that 'latest' corner we just turned against Spurs?

We turned so many corners now it's back to square one. I kind of expected this (so do other fans) that the result/performance of the game yesterday wasn't a surprise.

I just hope Rafa can bring us top 4 finish at the end of the season. Things will not change if Rafa doesn't do anything about it, applies to almost everything. Unless the fans are there before every matches.

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