Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:53 pm

I believe Rafa has OCD when it comes to players
He cant keep hold of good attacking or creative ones he buys for too long. Hes obsessed with his formations, systems and tactics
He is in a cycle that he cant get out of because he wont allow himself to.

by **andy_g** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:03 pm

to be fair there wasn't a lot wrong with our attacking football for big chunks of last season. sadly it seems like everyone has forgotten how to do it, though.

by **tonyeh** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:24 pm

Only in the last couple of months though Andy. We were no great shakes for the majority of the season.

by **tubby** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:34 pm

Sir Roger wrote:I believe Rafa has OCD when it comes to players
He cant keep hold of good attacking or creative ones he buys for too long. Hes obsessed with his formations, systems and tactics
He is in a cycle that he cant get out of because he wont allow himself to.

I think if you are managing one of the biggest clubs in the world if you are not obsessed with all areas of your job then id have to question that persons motivaton and commitment.

Rafa's commitment has never been in question so take a chill pill. How many goals did we score last season? We replaced a holding midfielder with an attacking midfielder so how exactly does that = getting rid of attacking/creative players?

We had the same lack of attacking talent last season. It just wasn't exposed as Stevie and Torres had decent spells in the team despite their injuries and our squad depth was never heavily tested as it has been this season. Get a grip.

I love how people on here think they know it all based on the 90mins they see a week and x amount of part :censored:

stories they read on the web. People have to realise there is probably more going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.

by **loopyliverpool** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:40 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:"we" as in Liverpool.....under Rafa.

"He" then?
What a pity. If only he'd have concentrated on the attacking football we played back then..

one of my beef with rafa is that the players that he sold, were of much better quality than those he brought in. Bellamy and Warnock should never have been sold IMO.

and btw, we really lack a fiery character like Cantona or Keane who would really fire everyone up, hence why i was happy to see Bellamy come, and disappointed to see him go.

Totally agree! Bellamy was the strangest sale as the guy was perfect for the way Rafa chooses to play. As for Warnock he is on the verge of an England call up and is streets ahead of Insua. The main task of any Manager is to spot talent, recruit it or develop it. Rafa fails in this fundemental task time and time again!

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:46 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:I believe Rafa has OCD when it comes to players
He cant keep hold of good attacking or creative ones he buys for too long. Hes obsessed with his formations, systems and tactics
He is in a cycle that he cant get out of because he wont allow himself to.

I think if you are managing one of the biggest clubs in the world if you are not obsessed with all areas of your job then id have to question that persons motivaton and commitment.

Rafa's commitment has never been in question so take a chill pill. How many goals did we score last season? We replaced a holding midfielder with an attacking midfielder so how exactly does that = getting rid of attacking/creative players?

We had the same lack of attacking talent last season. It just wasn't exposed as Stevie and Torres had decent spells in the team despite their injuries and our squad depth was never heavily tested as it has been this season. Get a grip.

I love how people on here think they know it all based on the 90mins they see a week and x amount of part stories they read on the web. People have to realise there is probably more going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.

I'll take a chill pill if you take two
:;):

"Some people think they know it all based on the 90 minutes a week and stories on the web"? Not me mate.
If I knew it all I'd be the manager instead of Rafa. I have given up being angry and I've always said we should give him time and not sack him before the end of the season. I do have a grip and I've never questioned his commitment. Plus I have no doubt that theres more going on behind the scenes that we dont know about.
Im basing my opinion on over 40 years of match going experience and life skills and knowledge picked up along the way. I know what I see and I know we are playing badly. I know we have some average, some good and some great players who, if managed better would achieve more. Whether Rafa is the person to do that I dont know. What I do know is that if he continues to manage the way he is now we have absolutely, positively, certainly NO chance of winning the Premier League.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:21 pm

bellamy was sold due to the arrival and to help fund a certain mr torres , i know which i would pick also bellamy never showed any sort of form for us despite playing a fair number of games in his one season with us . Warnock while a decent player was blessed with a lot of injuries and was third choice behind riise and fabio and left to get first team football . Those players left for valid reasons

by **lfc_deno** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:39 pm

How about showing a little faith in the man who delivered the European Cup and marginally lost out on the league last year?
This season hasnt turned out as well as many expected, but that is the players fault as much as it is Rafas. Besides sacking a manager doesnt guarantee immediate success afterwards.
I think Rafa should have some money to spend in the summer to bring in some good players and we can judge him at the end of next season, IMO.

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:42 pm

lfc_deno wrote:How about showing a little faith in the man who delivered the European Cup and marginally lost out on the league last year?
This season hasnt turned out as well as many expected, but that is the players fault as much as it is Rafas. Besides sacking a manager doesnt guarantee immediate success afterwards.
I think Rafa should have some money to spend in the summer to bring in some good players and we can judge him at the end of next season, IMO.

Im not sure whether it is faith or tolerance we should have. Rafa is six years into a five year plan. He has brought in and seen off many, many players and although we came close last season we are no nearer wining the PL than when he came. What is it that is stopping his carefully considered and meticulously planned objective?
Could it be himself?

by **teamleader1** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:22 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
lfc_deno wrote:How about showing a little faith in the man who delivered the European Cup and marginally lost out on the league last year?
This season hasnt turned out as well as many expected, but that is the players fault as much as it is Rafas. Besides sacking a manager doesnt guarantee immediate success afterwards.
I think Rafa should have some money to spend in the summer to bring in some good players and we can judge him at the end of next season, IMO.

Im not sure whether it is faith or tolerance we should have. Rafa is six years into a five year plan. He has brought in and seen off many, many players and although we came close last season we are no nearer wining the PL than when he came. What is it that is stopping his carefully considered and meticulously planned objective?
Could it be himself?

Agree 100%
Rafa seems to have a self destruct button that he cant stop pressing on a regular basis

Personally I think he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in the title race last season

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:02 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:"we" as in Liverpool.....under Rafa.

"He" then?
What a pity. If only he'd have concentrated on the attacking football we played back then..

one of my beef with rafa is that the players that he sold, were of much better quality than those he brought in. Bellamy and Warnock should never have been sold IMO.

and btw, we really lack a fiery character like Cantona or Keane who would really fire everyone up, hence why i was happy to see Bellamy come, and disappointed to see him go.

Warnock wanted to play regular first team football, and since the likes of Riise and Aurelio were there he could not be quarenteed ,

Bellamy or Fernando

Isnt Javier fiery enough for you

by **loopyliverpool** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:15 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:bellamy was sold due to the arrival and to help fund a certain mr torres , i know which i would pick also bellamy never showed any sort of form for us despite playing a fair number of games in his one season with us . Warnock while a decent player was blessed with a lot of injuries and was third choice behind riise and fabio and left to get first team football . Those players left for valid reasons

Look, to develop a good squad you keep your best players its a simple as that. Rafa sells Bellamy for £7m and a season later he is sold to Man City for £14m. Yes inflated but still a much sort after player by Mark Hughes and an absolute favourite amongst City fans. How about looking at it as Rafa sells Bellamy for £7m and buys Dossena for £7m. A part from Reina and Torres I personally feel Rafa has been an unmitigated disaster in his transfer dealings. He buys players and plays them out of position which remains a mystery and doesn't buy players we patently need ie. strikers (at least two) and a 'decent' cover for centre back.

by **roberto green** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:35 pm

loopyliverpool wrote:A part from Reina and Torres I personally feel Rafa has been an unmitigated disaster in his transfer dealings.

unmitigated disaster that does make me laugh.

So you're not going to include Mascherano,Agger and of course Alonso in that unmitigated disaster are you.Also will we include Garcia,Benayoun,Arbeloa,Sisosko,Aurellio in it, ok they aren't top draw but you get what you pay for and I haven't seen any summers were we can splash out on 2 players worth 20m each.

:no

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:39 pm

its simple loopy and i state it again - bellamy was sold to fund the arrival of torres not dossena or anyone else - bellamy went to help fund the arrival of torres . Would you rather we kept bellamy and not got torres ?

by **bigmick** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:52 pm

Bellamy was a poor sale as it turns out, with the benefit of hindsight. Might as well just admit it and move on, this silliness in trying to pretend all the fee we got for him went towards buying Torres (because Bellamy's fee will have been 100% paid up front obviously) and none of it went towards buying less successful purchases is never going to change that. At the time we sold him there weren't many who said it wasn't a good idea (there were a couple though :;):

) but in fairness even those of us expressed doubts would have struggled to have forseen his form recently.

Quite simply he's improved as some players do, learnt his trade and has discovered how to play the game. it happens, it's the same as Peter Crouch progressing via a career at QPR, Southampton reserves and then onto Liverpool and England. I don't really blame the manager for the sale, they happen sometimes. I think we could have used Bellamy better while we had him, but given he'd just twatted Riise around the napper with a 7 iron obviously something had to give.

Not for the first time people are being a bit quick with the excuses. Just accept it as a mistake and move on, not that difficult really.

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