Liverpool FC Forum

access wrote:

Benny The Noon wrote:1. Xabi - at the time he was looking to replace Xabi - Xabi had just suffered two years of poor and below par form - way below the standard we saw when he first arrived so could easily see why he wanted him replaced with someone a bit more consistent - during that summer why wasnt Madrid in for him then when cheaper - because they also prob didnt think he was worth the risk after two years below par .

2.This was the first summer Rafa had total control - bought three players - 1 is a big improvement - 1 is yet to be decided and the final one was obviously a cheap alternative to who he really wanted . Also funds for other players that he wanted were removed - funds that came from the sale of xabi - basically the owners gave him no money to spend this summer . Aquqlini while injured was able to get for that price due to him being inujry and they guy still has a whole career ahead of him - lets not forgot gerrard suffered a fair number of injuries during the early stages of his career - you onl.y have to look at the reaction of the senior roma players and fans to aqualinis departure .

3. This if the first season Rafa has had total control on the youth ressies etc and at this moment in time they are looking promising with the way they are playing and we are starting to see a few getting closer - ayala,kelly,ecclestone ,pacheco.

I take your points matey,

And you are probably right but what about my other concerns?

You may pave over 3 cracks but another 4 or 5 are always there.

Benny The Noon wrote:

access wrote:

Benny The Noon wrote:1. Xabi - at the time he was looking to replace Xabi - Xabi had just suffered two years of poor and below par form - way below the standard we saw when he first arrived so could easily see why he wanted him replaced with someone a bit more consistent - during that summer why wasnt Madrid in for him then when cheaper - because they also prob didnt think he was worth the risk after two years below par .

2.This was the first summer Rafa had total control - bought three players - 1 is a big improvement - 1 is yet to be decided and the final one was obviously a cheap alternative to who he really wanted . Also funds for other players that he wanted were removed - funds that came from the sale of xabi - basically the owners gave him no money to spend this summer . Aquqlini while injured was able to get for that price due to him being inujry and they guy still has a whole career ahead of him - lets not forgot gerrard suffered a fair number of injuries during the early stages of his career - you onl.y have to look at the reaction of the senior roma players and fans to aqualinis departure .

3. This if the first season Rafa has had total control on the youth ressies etc and at this moment in time they are looking promising with the way they are playing and we are starting to see a few getting closer - ayala,kelly,ecclestone ,pacheco.

I take your points matey,

And you are probably right but what about my other concerns?

You may pave over 3 cracks but another 4 or 5 are always there.

Which ones lash ?

access wrote:[
Rafa is actually running the Business isnt he and from where I am sitting he aint doing a very good job prove me wrong? If he was boss what would you say? Well i would tell him that he and his team need to up their game , and get the team out of the current dip

Letting Robbie Keane go after half a season he doesn’t appear to be doing so bad now … Peter Crouch … Craig Bellamy … Keane shouldnt of been bought in first place and is now back to being a big fish in a small pond - comfort zone for us - he didnt improve us and loosing him didnt knock us back ,Crouch was offered a new contract but turned it down as he wanted first regular football to protect his england chances. Bellamy was let to go to help fund arrival of Torres and in his year at Liverpool did he really shine ?

36 players in total cost 229 million
32 players out total cost 112 million these figures change on a daily basis - yes Rafa needed to spend to improve the squad which he has compared to when he first arrived - lets not forget Rafa and the players themselves have earnt most of that money

Depending on two players in Torres and Gerrard what about a world class striker ... Voronin? [/B] will agree we need a back up to torres but not another world class striker - scoring goals hasnt been our problem this season - more defensive blunders at the back or creating those chances [/B]

Carragher is now 31 why isn’t he ‘already’ grooming a younger player in that style? Who have we got? kelly,San Jose,Ayala,Skrtel,Agger

Even more worrying what about when Stevie retires I dread to think?? we move on just like we have done in the past when top players retire

Why did he tinker with the team last season and drew a number of games IF we had the depth of squad we could have maintained our grip of the Premiership we all have short memories. the games we drew we still had our best players on the pitch and chances werent taken

Arsenal and the Manc’s and Chelsea and Man City and Tottenham have a number of strikers? Please Please don’t argue with the fact we aint got the money. yep they have got ten million pound strikers as bac up - we have m oney to buy starters but not big money back up - chelsea spent 250 mill in two seasons same with city - man utd spent 140 million on 6 players - do we have that spending power .

One fantastic night doesn’t make up for my hurt mate I want to win the Premiership.

I could give you more cracks but I may run out of cement

Benny The Noon wrote:3. This if the first season Rafa has had total control on the youth ressies etc and at this moment in time they are looking promising with the way they are playing and we are starting to see a few getting closer - ayala,kelly,ecclestone ,pacheco.

This is the first season Rafa gets to practice his megalomaniac aspirations. The Academy, Reserves, First Team, transfers etc.
It also coincides with the worst run of results in living memory. Coincidence or not ?
Now, perhaps I'm wrong about this, but at the start of the season, LFC would have had to name at least some of those Ressie players for the upcoming Champions League campaign. None were. In fact, one of the shining lights coming through was traded for a season in return for a cut-price deal on Zorba. Who, as it turns out, is poison (Sorry Lando - can't use the word "muck" !    )

bunglemark2 wrote:

Benny The Noon wrote:3. This if the first season Rafa has had total control on the youth ressies etc and at this moment in time they are looking promising with the way they are playing and we are starting to see a few getting closer - ayala,kelly,ecclestone ,pacheco.

This is the first season Rafa gets to practice his megalomaniac aspirations. The Academy, Reserves, First Team, transfers etc.
It also coincides with the worst run of results in living memory. Coincidence or not ?
Now, perhaps I'm wrong about this, but at the start of the season, LFC would have had to name at least some of those Ressie players for the upcoming Champions League campaign. None were. In fact, one of the shining lights coming through was traded for a season in return for a cut-price deal on Zorba. Who, as it turns out, is poison (Sorry Lando - can't use the word "muck" !    )

Flight wrote:

access wrote:C) A serious concern for me it the lack of young talent coming through the ranks it has been written that Rafa isn’t ‘interested’ in the youth policy  I want to know why? 

D) If he is a tactician  why didn’t he for see the potential problems with the injuries to Torres and get rid of  Robbie Keane why persist with Voronin when we can ALL see he is not a class act even my 16 year old nephew comments on his ‘skills’ if he was a master tactician  under the circumstances take a punt on Owen it would have cost us nothing he had nothing to lose Owen has already scored this season.

c) It isn't that Rafa isn't interested in the youth set up, it is that Parry never let him have anything to do with the youth set up. Rafa has only had any say at all on the youth side of things in the last few months.


d) He sold Keane and Alonso and had a big slice of the transfer funds he received for them taken off him.

At the end of this last transfer window we had an offer of £3mill for Voronin from Hertha Berlin and Rafa wanted to sell but was afraid the Americans would also take that money off him. Same thing with Babel.


Up until this last summer Liverpool under Rafa had bought 66 players; 49 of them still here -  18 in the senior squad. The rest are largely kids. The numbers thrown around about transfers are very misleading.


Rafas net spend over the 6 summers he has been here is the same as Aston Villa or Sunderlands. Bottom line our expectations are too high given the budget we are operating on.


This won't change while the Americans are here. It doesn't matter who the manager is. Every single penny into the club is accounted for in interest payments. There is nothing left to buy players with.

It is 100% certain that the club is in decline as long as the Americans are here no matter who the manager is.

access wrote:

Flight wrote:

access wrote:C) A serious concern for me it the lack of young talent coming through the ranks it has been written that Rafa isn’t ‘interested’ in the youth policy  I want to know why? 

D) If he is a tactician  why didn’t he for see the potential problems with the injuries to Torres and get rid of  Robbie Keane why persist with Voronin when we can ALL see he is not a class act even my 16 year old nephew comments on his ‘skills’ if he was a master tactician  under the circumstances take a punt on Owen it would have cost us nothing he had nothing to lose Owen has already scored this season.

c) It isn't that Rafa isn't interested in the youth set up, it is that Parry never let him have anything to do with the youth set up. Rafa has only had any say at all on the youth side of things in the last few months.


d) He sold Keane and Alonso and had a big slice of the transfer funds he received for them taken off him.

At the end of this last transfer window we had an offer of £3mill for Voronin from Hertha Berlin and Rafa wanted to sell but was afraid the Americans would also take that money off him. Same thing with Babel.


Up until this last summer Liverpool under Rafa had bought 66 players; 49 of them still here -  18 in the senior squad. The rest are largely kids. The numbers thrown around about transfers are very misleading.


Rafas net spend over the 6 summers he has been here is the same as Aston Villa or Sunderlands. Bottom line our expectations are too high given the budget we are operating on.


This won't change while the Americans are here. It doesn't matter who the manager is. Every single penny into the club is accounted for in interest payments. There is nothing left to buy players with.

It is 100% certain that the club is in decline as long as the Americans are here no matter who the manager is.

I seriously cannot take this as a viable point.  I wish I really could and agree with your argument about  ‘CASH’  and the owners if we say Rafa is as good as he is and it is just down to the owners giving us lack of cash …you point goes out of the window as can you explain why Arsenal with Arsene Wenger without a 'huge spend' can buy young talent 'good' talent bring them on put them in the first team and they progress and they play good football ….. isn’t that down to the Coach?

Benny The Noon wrote:

access wrote:

Flight wrote:

access wrote:C) A serious concern for me it the lack of young talent coming through the ranks it has been written that Rafa isn’t ‘interested’ in the youth policy  I want to know why? 

D) If he is a tactician  why didn’t he for see the potential problems with the injuries to Torres and get rid of  Robbie Keane why persist with Voronin when we can ALL see he is not a class act even my 16 year old nephew comments on his ‘skills’ if he was a master tactician  under the circumstances take a punt on Owen it would have cost us nothing he had nothing to lose Owen has already scored this season.

c) It isn't that Rafa isn't interested in the youth set up, it is that Parry never let him have anything to do with the youth set up. Rafa has only had any say at all on the youth side of things in the last few months.


d) He sold Keane and Alonso and had a big slice of the transfer funds he received for them taken off him.

At the end of this last transfer window we had an offer of £3mill for Voronin from Hertha Berlin and Rafa wanted to sell but was afraid the Americans would also take that money off him. Same thing with Babel.


Up until this last summer Liverpool under Rafa had bought 66 players; 49 of them still here -  18 in the senior squad. The rest are largely kids. The numbers thrown around about transfers are very misleading.


Rafas net spend over the 6 summers he has been here is the same as Aston Villa or Sunderlands. Bottom line our expectations are too high given the budget we are operating on.


This won't change while the Americans are here. It doesn't matter who the manager is. Every single penny into the club is accounted for in interest payments. There is nothing left to buy players with.

It is 100% certain that the club is in decline as long as the Americans are here no matter who the manager is.

I seriously cannot take this as a viable point.  I wish I really could and agree with your argument about  ‘CASH’  and the owners if we say Rafa is as good as he is and it is just down to the owners giving us lack of cash …you point goes out of the window as can you explain why Arsenal with Arsene Wenger without a 'huge spend' can buy young talent 'good' talent bring them on put them in the first team and they progress and they play good football ….. isn’t that down to the Coach?

Do arsenal progress as much as us - they seem to have gone backwards more - no trophies in 5 years - below us 3 out of 5 years ? points wise in 5 years they have gone backwards where as we have gone forwards ?

Big Niall wrote:

Fauxy wrote:Arsenal have gone backwards but they have survived and competed at a top level even with such a tiny transfer budget because of ther new stadium. They have progressed more than us by the way of youth systems and ticket sales. They are looking at the future.. we are struggling in the present.

Out of the top four teams Arsenal are the ones who have progressed the least in football so yes you are right. But as a business I think they have progressed the most.

I agree - on thie pitch they miss the steel of viera/petite/adams and Keown and that is an error by Wenger.

However, he is a genius at spotting players which is why his net spend is tiny (buy Anelka for 500k sell for 20m+, Adabeyar the same, he even made big profits on Overmars and Viera after getting years out of them, Even Henry gave legendary service (I had never heard of him - a failed winger it seemed) and was sold at a profit after becoming one of the greatest players in the premiership).

Arsenal are the best run club, they have spent practically nothing so that they can build a huge stadium with London ticket prices generating the highest turnover I believe in England.

Arsenal are only one or two players away from being unbeatable in my opinion, they have a terrific team and more importantly a very good squad, they are a much better team this year than last.
We on th eother hand despite Rafa having 100% control over everything are going backwards, oh no I forgot it's all the onwers fault isn't it.