Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:23 pm

bavlondon wrote:
dawson99 wrote:Rafa's outburst had nothing to do with league positions or beating Stoke, it was stating facts about the drunk scots cheating...

Yeah but he looks like a beacsue we dropped points.

Why? He never said that we would beat Stoke in the 'outburst'. he just said that Ferguson is a cheat and a fool. Ferguson is a cheat and a fool... ergo nothing wrong with what Rafa said. (Would have been nice if we had won yesterday tho, but what he says is still truth, njo matter our result)

by **ConnO'var** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:26 pm

Fuck! The mancs have gotten a 2nd one.

by **NiftyNeil** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:26 pm

ruskiy playmaker wrote:Is anybody else worried about Mascherano's form? Yesterday Lucas had a bad game, but Mascherano was really poor and he has been for some time now. Where the hell is Mascherano of last season?

He was awful yesterday. While the focus was on Lucas, Macherano was quietly doing feck all. At least Lucas was trying. Masch was never looking for the ball, he was making little atempt to get forward and he was not breaking down any plays. He's been poor all season, Rafa should put him up for sale for a fuck off price during this transfer window - it worked with Alonso.

by **tubby** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:27 pm

dawson99 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
dawson99 wrote:Rafa's outburst had nothing to do with league positions or beating Stoke, it was stating facts about the drunk scots cheating...

Yeah but he looks like a beacsue we dropped points.

Why? He never said that we would beat Stoke in the 'outburst'. he just said that Ferguson is a cheat and a fool. Ferguson is a cheat and a fool... ergo nothing wrong with what Rafa said. (Would have been nice if we had won yesterday tho, but what he says is still truth, njo matter our result)

I know his comments had nothing to do with results but when you are at the top the media will look for any excuse to make you look silly and quite frankly now he does.

by **NiftyNeil** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:34 pm

bavlondon wrote:
dawson99 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
dawson99 wrote:Rafa's outburst had nothing to do with league positions or beating Stoke, it was stating facts about the drunk scots cheating...

Yeah but he looks like a beacsue we dropped points.

Why? He never said that we would beat Stoke in the 'outburst'. he just said that Ferguson is a cheat and a fool. Ferguson is a cheat and a fool... ergo nothing wrong with what Rafa said. (Would have been nice if we had won yesterday tho, but what he says is still truth, njo matter our result)

I know his comments had nothing to do with results but when you are at the top the media will look for any excuse to make you look silly and quite frankly now he does.

He looks fully justified - especially considering the amount that Rooney's getting away with this afternoon.

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:40 pm

NiftyNeil wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Is anybody else worried about Mascherano's form? Yesterday Lucas had a bad game, but Mascherano was really poor and he has been for some time now. Where the hell is Mascherano of last season?

He was awful yesterday. While the focus was on Lucas, Macherano was quietly doing feck all. At least Lucas was trying. Masch was never looking for the ball, he was making little atempt to get forward and he was not breaking down any plays. He's been poor all season, Rafa should put him up for sale for a fuck off price during this transfer window - it worked with Alonso.

you could have a point. It made Alonso pick his game up and (for a 20+ million player) masch hasn't done well this season.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:41 pm

ruskiy playmaker wrote:Is anybody else worried about Mascherano's form? Yesterday Lucas had a bad game, but Mascherano was really poor and he has been for some time now. Where the hell is Mascherano of last season?

I think Masch is a great player, but I would have to agree mate. He has shown glimpses of good form and has played well in patches, but he has never looked anything like the player we saw last season.

Rafa said the other day that he thought Masch was finally starting to play better, I think he may have a different opinion after yesterday. He really needs to pull up his socks or he may find its him and not Alonso that makes way for Barry!

by **tubby** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:56 pm

Well in the scheme of things those comments were never going to actually have any effect were they? I mean are the FA going to think about it more when Fergie talks? I doubt it mate.

It was just mind games from Rafa to make Fergie angry and he ended up with egg on his face after now giving utd the chance to overtake us next weekend. If we had been top then Rafa would look justified but if we are below them then he looks desperate.

by **tonyeh** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:02 pm

Scottbot wrote:
tonyeh wrote:I disagree, 4-5-1 is no good for Liverpool. It'll always mean that the lone striker will get isolated and we'll be chasing a goal from anywhere, meaning no clear focus and that's bound to come undone at some stage.

Rafa's approach seems to be to wait and see what the other team will do. That's dangerous ground IMO.

It's not as simple as that, otherwise we would see the lone striker getting isolated and starved of possession on a regular basis. 4-5-1 works fine IF:

- You have good spells of possession (which we generally do)
- You get your wide-men high and wide to occupy their full-backs which gives your lone striker a much better chance against 2 centre-halves
- You get your full-backs involved in play and if possible, push them on
- BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY you have to have the right man to do the job up-front (see my previous post on Kuyt in this thread). We didn't (and often don't) play this system with the right front-man.

You've essentially agreed with my point then...

4-5-1 is no good for Liverpool.

by ***_Ruthless_*** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:30 pm

Stoke where always gonna play with 10 men behind the ball, we saw that at Anfield . . so what does Rafa do? He plays even more Negative!!

Kuyt as a lone striker will never ever work, we have known that for ages so why doesn't Rafa see it?
Alonso is injured yeah, But why play Lucas when hes about as creative as a brick wall?

The best team Rafa could have picked in an attacking force would have been . . Riera on the left, Gerrard and Mascherano in the Middle, Benayoun on the Right, And Keane and Kuyt up front!

We have finally let Man Utd back in the title race with these terrible results.

by **Zidane** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:40 pm

A lot of things going through my mind when I sit back and think about this game.

First off a few issues I have with Rafa and how we are going about things in some games. We had some good form prior to this but too many times we wait till it's too late to make the offensive push in these types of matches. What happened to what we were doing early in the season? We would push hard for those 3 points, anyone remember 3 at the back in the match against um, I forget I have a bad memory but we went all out for those 3 points. What happened to that?!

Rafa comes out and says we "want" to win every game, of course we do, -everyone- does. That doesn't mean everyone fully tries to win every game, some are happy with the point (Stoke, and every other :censored:

team in the prem) and this is the problem that we are having right now, sometimes it looks like we just aren't going all out for those 3 points anymore. If you really want to win every game Rafa, don't play it so safe and play our more offensively skilled players perhaps? In this match we looked like we set out to draw by not starting Agger and Keane.

As for it being the formation, no I don't think it is the formation and never was really. With the right personnel, which we are very capable of putting out onto the pitch any formation will show some great play. It's just the lineups we are putting out there at times that cause the 4-5-1 4-4-1-1 or however you want to look at it, look like :censored:

.

On the other hand in this particular game we never really had a solid grip on things, you can argue for Rafa's sake that we could have lost that point had we not been as cautious as we were. Had we started Agger and not Skrtel maybe they do put one of those ridiculous throw ins into the net and we still end up scoreless, losing 1-0. We never looked like a side that was gonna break them open with the team we had out there and credit to Stoke, they were one organized group.

Things like this are becoming more and more common, every team even Arsenal with their 'beautiful, creative' football have struggled immensely to break down these type of teams. It's sad really that every non top 4-5 team in the Prem has adapted this horrible, disgusting brand of football. Are draws really that precious to these teams do they really need that 1 point this badly? I don't think this is good for football, especially in the biggest league in the world.

All that said though, the attack on Fergie now looks like it big mistake. Even though I agree with it being said everything else that could have helped the cause did not happen. So yeah, I don't know what side of the fence I am on but this has been one tough weekend.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:53 pm

tonyeh wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
tonyeh wrote:I disagree, 4-5-1 is no good for Liverpool. It'll always mean that the lone striker will get isolated and we'll be chasing a goal from anywhere, meaning no clear focus and that's bound to come undone at some stage.

Rafa's approach seems to be to wait and see what the other team will do. That's dangerous ground IMO.

It's not as simple as that, otherwise we would see the lone striker getting isolated and starved of possession on a regular basis. 4-5-1 works fine IF:

- You have good spells of possession (which we generally do)
- You get your wide-men high and wide to occupy their full-backs which gives your lone striker a much better chance against 2 centre-halves
- You get your full-backs involved in play and if possible, push them on
- BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY you have to have the right man to do the job up-front (see my previous post on Kuyt in this thread). We didn't (and often don't) play this system with the right front-man.

You've essentially agreed with my point then...

4-5-1 is no good for Liverpool.

Not at all. You're saying you don't think it can work, and i am saying it can work just fine IF you play the right players in the right positions.

by **Number 9** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:22 pm

4-5-1 can work and its been proven in the second half of last season.As Scott says its playing the right players!If all players are available,this is a good enough team to take on anyone.
Remember Torres loves playing upfront alone and has done for 90% of his career,saying this Im sure he can form a partnership with Keane if they get given the chance! Reina

Arbeloa Carra Skrtel Insua

Kuyt Masch Gerrard Alonso Riera

Torres

That team is enough to give anyone a game,everyone apart from Kuyt is perfectly at home in his natural and favoured position.It can work and its been proven as I said!
Personally though id like to see a 4-4-2 with

Kuyt Alonso Gerrard Riera

Torres Keane

But I doubt Rafa will ever stick with one formation!

Yesterday was stupid we had no creativity in MF,Mascherano and Lucas should never start together again in a 4-4-2,its just daft.

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:32 pm

*_Ruthless_* wrote:We have finally let Man Utd back in the title race with these terrible results.

What do you mean let them back? They were never out of it to begin with.

by **bunglemark2** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:35 pm

Maybe he meant " we could have been out of sight right now...." if it wasn't for dodgy team selection and a bunch of no-marks on the pitch who don't have what it takes to win a game when you have to do so by any means possible

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