Liverpool FC Forum

[tonyeh]

I disagree, 4-5-1 is no good for Liverpool. It'll always mean that the lone striker will get isolated and we'll be chasing a goal from anywhere, meaning no clear focus and that's bound to come undone at some stage.

Rafa's approach seems to be to wait and see what the other team will do. That's dangerous ground IMO.

It's not as simple as that, otherwise we would see the lone striker getting isolated and starved of possession on a regular basis. 4-5-1 works fine IF:

- You have good spells of possession (which we generally do)
- You get your wide-men high and wide to occupy their full-backs which gives your lone striker a much better chance against 2 centre-halves
- You get your full-backs involved in play and if possible, push them on
- BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY you have to have the right man to do the job up-front (see my previous post on Kuyt in this thread). We didn't (and often don't) play this system with the right front-man.

You've essentially agreed with my point then...

4-5-1 is no good for Liverpool.

Not at all. You're saying you don't think it can work, and i am saying it can work just fine IF you play the right players in the right positions.

But that's the point Scott. I'm not saying 4-5-1 is a "bad" formation per se. I'm saying it's bad for Liverpool.

You say it's ok if certain conditions are met. Liverpool don't have the players, manager or the mentality needed to meet those conditions or to make that formation work with regular success.

Some people say it's good for us based on a limited run of success last year with Torres up front. I say that was a one off and won't repeated.

If Liverpool continue to utilise a formation based on a defense midfield with a single lone striker, they are always going to struggle for goals and they will always drop points to lesser teams...an most importantly they won't win the title.

[REDTILLDEAD]

We have no chance of winning the title, while we have a manager who insists on playing negative tactics away from home. we had £50 mill of strikeforce sitting on the bench, what type of manager who is serious(or knows what he is doing?)of winning the prem does that?........i"ll tell you who a manager like we have, cluless, stuborn, a man who lacks self belief in his own players (especially the ones that he signed?) a manager who 0ver 5 yrs later still cant grasp that when you want to win a game you play your best 11....then when the game is in the bag take off some of your "best to rest". We have such a manager!...............he goes by the name of negative Beneitz!.......The patent saint of man u and chelsea.they love him!....with a very heavy heart i have to say its united's title the prem is taking on a familiar trend again......and Beneitz is giving them a helping hand.

[Judge]

i fail to see the familiar trend?

we are top of the league - not 3rd or 4th where we have been in previous campaigns at this stage

so wheres this trend you talk about?

i understand that the tactics was wrong etc, but to say rafa is clueless, is absolutely bizzarre !!

[Owzat]

Lucas was dire, as usual, and for the life of me, i dunno why we persist in a player like him

Rafa wanted to play that formation and that meant the two contenders to play alongside Mascherano were Plessis and Lucas. He can't have felt that Torres was a risk worth taking, in light of our recent run of draws I'd say it was worth taking.

I suppose one question is should we stick with a formation like 4-5-1 (or however you fancy describing it) when we don't have good enough players when Alonso isn't available, or do you pick the formation to fit best with the players available? I'd lean towards the latter, a positive 4-4-2 against a side we should beat and haven't even scored against this season. I think our last visit to the potteries ended 8-0, I'd have settled for 1-0 on Saturday. Kuyt misfiring as a striker, most of the rest having poor games and a manager making sure Keane stayed on the bench.

[heimdall]

I fail to see why Rafa is descibed as a great tactician or even a great manager. His tactics are completely one-dimensional, if they work then great we look good but if not he lacks the ability to change mid game and change the game as opposed to top managers like Ferguson, Wenger, Maureen etc. Secondly he makes far too many feck ups in the transfers, I know everyone makes errors but Rafa makes a lot more than the rest, to the point of buying players and leaving them on the bench if they are good or insisting on playing them if they are garbage.
Before anyone goes "yeah but look at where Arsenal are" etc, I do know this but Arsenal are rebuilding and have internal problems at the moment, they will come back next season with a vengence I think.

Bottom line I think we have the players to win the league but sadly not a good enough manager, and sadly I don't think he will ever be good enough, his mind is too closed and he is too stubborn and hot headed, e.g bizarre press conferences and tantrums.

[REDTILLDEAD]

i fail to see the familiar trend?

we are top of the league - not 3rd or 4th where we have been in previous campaigns at this stage

so wheres this trend you talk about?

i understand that the tactics was wrong etc, but to say rafa is clueless, is absolutely bizzarre !!

I am sorry but people on here need to wake up!....Leaving nearly £50 mill of talent on your subs bench and starting with a player (kuyt) who will never become an "out and out" striker and who cant lead the line in my opinion is "clueless". Beneitz has proved it over and over again how tactically inept he is. he has lost the plot, insatead of attacking ferguson......he should try attacking teams like stoke!.

[tonyeh]

I fail to see why Rafa is descibed as a great tactician or even a great manager. His tactics are completely one-dimensional, if they work then great we look good but if not he lacks the ability to change mid game and change the game as opposed to top managers like Ferguson, Wenger, Maureen etc. Secondly he makes far too many feck ups in the transfers, I know everyone makes errors but Rafa makes a lot more than the rest, to the point of buying players and leaving them on the bench if they are good or insisting on playing them if they are garbage.
Before anyone goes "yeah but look at where Arsenal are" etc, I do know this but Arsenal are rebuilding and have internal problems at the moment, they will come back next season with a vengence I think.

Bottom line I think we have the players to win the league but sadly not a good enough manager, and sadly I don't think he will ever be good enough, his mind is too closed and he is too stubborn and hot headed, e.g bizarre press conferences and tantrums.

I think the performance in Istanbul had a lot to do with this "tactical genius" nonsense that's spouted about Benitez.

it could be argued however, it was Rafa's "tactics" that saw Liverpool go 3-0 down at half time.

But, you're correct, I see no tactical genius at work. Especially when his subbing policy alone (same players/same time) exposes such a mind-numbing limitation.

I think Benitez could do it for us, but he'll absolutely have to understand that the pig-headed fooly he engages in is detrimental to the club as a whole and that he needs to change it and be far more flexible than he has been.

[Lando_Griffin]

I fail to see why Rafa is descibed as a great tactician or even a great manager. His tactics are completely one-dimensional, if they work then great we look good but if not he lacks the ability to change mid game and change the game as opposed to top managers like Ferguson, Wenger, Maureen etc. Secondly he makes far too many feck ups in the transfers, I know everyone makes errors but Rafa makes a lot more than the rest, to the point of buying players and leaving them on the bench if they are good or insisting on playing them if they are garbage.
Before anyone goes "yeah but look at where Arsenal are" etc, I do know this but Arsenal are rebuilding and have internal problems at the moment, they will come back next season with a vengence I think.

Bottom line I think we have the players to win the league but sadly not a good enough manager, and sadly I don't think he will ever be good enough, his mind is too closed and he is too stubborn and hot headed, e.g bizarre press conferences and tantrums.

You really are a simple-minded buffoon, aren't you?

Rafa has proven his credentials elsewhere. It was a regular comment on Sky that his subs had more impact than any of the other "top four" bosses, bringing us from losing or drawing positions.
Mourinho's idea of changing tactics were to send a CB up front for the last 15 minutes. WOW! PLEASE bring THAT level of tactical know-how to Anfield...

Don't let the facts get in the way of a dig, eh, Heimdall? You just carry on as if you're some footballing Guru who knows everything about everything.

Actually, the kettle's just boiled - go and make yourself useful...

[Lando_Griffin]

I fail to see why Rafa is descibed as a great tactician or even a great manager. His tactics are completely one-dimensional, if they work then great we look good but if not he lacks the ability to change mid game and change the game as opposed to top managers like Ferguson, Wenger, Maureen etc. Secondly he makes far too many feck ups in the transfers, I know everyone makes errors but Rafa makes a lot more than the rest, to the point of buying players and leaving them on the bench if they are good or insisting on playing them if they are garbage.
Before anyone goes "yeah but look at where Arsenal are" etc, I do know this but Arsenal are rebuilding and have internal problems at the moment, they will come back next season with a vengence I think.

Bottom line I think we have the players to win the league but sadly not a good enough manager, and sadly I don't think he will ever be good enough, his mind is too closed and he is too stubborn and hot headed, e.g bizarre press conferences and tantrums.

I think the performance in Istanbul had a lot to do with this "tactical genius" nonsense that's spouted about Benitez.

it could be argued however, it was Rafa's "tactics" that saw Liverpool go 3-0 down at half time.

But, you're correct, I see no tactical genius at work. Especially when his subbing policy alone (same players/same time) exposes such a mind-numbing limitation.

I think Benitez could do it for us, but he'll absolutely have to understand that the pig-headed fooly he engages in is detrimental to the club as a whole and that he needs to change it and be far more flexible than he has been.

See my previous post, numb balls...

Only a complete and utter imbecile, incapable of retaining their own faeces and dribble, would fail to see that Rafa is easily one of the best tactical coaches in World football. It;s not even up for debate, you mindless mountain goat.

I suggest you concentrate on fastening your velcro shoes, instead of posting on here.

To translate into a language you will be more familiar with:

"Bibble."

[account deleted by request]

i fail to see the familiar trend?

we are top of the league - not 3rd or 4th where we have been in previous campaigns at this stage

so wheres this trend you talk about?

i understand that the tactics was wrong etc, but to say rafa is clueless, is absolutely bizzarre !!

Perhaps the fact (according to peewee) that we are on exactly the same number of points after the same number of games as last season could be considered some sort of trend?

[Judge]

coincidence s@int

[justyna]

this game was pathetic hopefully no more of it!