Liverpool FC Forum

by **Fowler_E7** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:16 am

bigmick wrote:I remember him scoring a wonder goal for Argentina in the World Cup so he was clearly a good player

Your thinking of someone else there mate, the only "wonder goal" he's ever scored was the one the other day against reading :laugh:

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:27 am

Mascherano was actually pretty well known even before he moved to West Ham. Mourinho mentioned him as being one of the best defensive midfielders in the world just after Gerrard had changed his mind about going to Chelsea.

I don't think it was so much luck, as willingness to take a gamble on a player that hadn't seemed able to adapt to the prem (hardly given a chance to be fair), presumably it being a loan deal and the fact that he could actually speak Spanish made it it much less of a gamble.

I think Rafa's "lucky" buy was Torres, as I don't think he was Rafa's first choice. (Eto'o was) Personally I don't think anyone expected Torres to be such a huge success especially in his first season.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:30 am

s@int wrote:I think Rafa's "lucky" buy was Torres, as I don't think he was Rafa's first choice. (Eto'o was) Personally I don't think anyone expected Torres to be such a huge success especially in his first season.

"In the summer, Michael was one of the names on the list of strikers we were pursuing, but Fernando was always top of that list, and the one we wanted above all others," Benitez said.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:32 am

LFC2007 wrote:
s@int wrote:I think Rafa's "lucky" buy was Torres, as I don't think he was Rafa's first choice. (Eto'o was) Personally I don't think anyone expected Torres to be such a huge success especially in his first season.

"In the summer, Michael was one of the names on the list of strikers we were pursuing, but Fernando was always top of that list, and the one we wanted above all others," Benitez said.

Rafa's just forgot to add, "after Eto'o turned us down"

by **LFC2007** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:33 am

I don't think so (that Eto'o was first choice), but I'm not Rafa.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:35 am

Mascheranho has been a great signing (that's coming from one of his biggest critics as well)

I think people on here (this is in reference to mick's comment) still think Houllier was a flop in the transfer market. I made a reference to Houllier and Benitez' signings somewhere else on here and Houllier came out on top in his signings (IMO anyway) The only position (collectively) where Benitez outbought Houllier was in the middle of the park. Benitez has bought better indivually I suppose, but collectively in positions Houllier bought better.

The keepers, Reina has been our best keeper since Clemance but Dudek, Kirkland and Westerveld were a better choice than Reina, Carson and Intandje.
Both have brought in two right backs...Babbel and Finnan or Kromkamp and Josemi
Houllier brought in Hyypia and Henchoz compared to Benitez' Agger and Skrtel (over time I expect Benitez' to be a better pairing)
Houllier brought in Riise who IMO was a better left back in his first couple of years than Benitez' Aurellio.
Right wing Houllier brought in Barmby, Smicer and Diouf who again as an option are better to have than Nunez, Garcia or Benayoun.
Middle of the park, Benitez wins hands down.
Left wing there is Harry Kewell against Gonzalez. I think both were bad buys but I think Kewell slightly edges it.
Up front is very much like in goal. Even though Torres is head and shoulders above the rest, as a collective unit, Houllier's signings of Baros, Heskey, Litmanen and Cisse are better than Torres, Kuyt, Crouch, and Voronin.

That's all in MY opinion of course, but I can honestly say that people remember solely Houllier's bad buys and hold it against the fella. Babbel, Hyypia, Henchoz, Riise, Finnan, Hamman, Barmby, Gary Mc, Westerveld and even Baros at times were important buys for this club. Obviously people will disagree but that's expected.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:39 am

Do you honestly think he would say "we really wanted Eto'o but when that deal didn't go through we had to make do with Torres" :laugh:

by **LFC2007** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:41 am

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:46 am

Don't worry saint our "transfers are getting progressively better" so expect Eto'o this summer and Torres will be sat on the bench. :laugh:

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:47 am

I'll be honest with you GBJH, I thought houllier did very well in his time here, he won us trophies, which is always a good thing but he had masses to spend. And a majority of his signings were poor. The players you mentioned above, good signings and in a way he was very unlucky in that most of them suffered through injuries. Regardless he had the money to buy 2 squads of decent players but he barely managed 1. The same argument could be said for souness, he bought a lot of players but like houllier, suffered from injuries. The difference is that rafa in his first season like houllier, like souness suffered from injuries, but rafa didnt just rely on the talent of the players, he used his loaf to get the most of what he had and won us the champs league. And rafa, for a majority of his signings who dont look like settling in he gets rid straight away, he doesnt mess about. To compare Houlliers signings to rafas is a bit unfair. Houllier had much more money compared to rafa. It is easy to critisicize houlliers signings because he made many, in comparison to rafa.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:53 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Don't worry saint our "transfers are getting progressively better" so expect Eto'o this summer and Torres will be sat on the bench.

On the whole

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:54 am

Kharhaz, I'll be the first to admit that Houllier's poor signings were much worse than Beniez' bad signings but Houllier's good signings deserve as much credit as many others. They may not of been the world stars that Benitez has brought in, but they were still good buys.

To question money though is a joke IMO. Houllier spent ten million more on three players Heskey, Diouf and Cisse in six years. In four years Benitez has already spent ten million on five players, Alonso, Kuyt, Babel, Torres and Mascheranho. So I think to question Houllier having much more money is a little dubious at best.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:56 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Mascheranho has been a great signing (that's coming from one of his biggest critics as well)

I think people on here (this is in reference to mick's comment) still think Houllier was a flop in the transfer market. I made a reference to Houllier and Benitez' signings somewhere else on here and Houllier came out on top in his signings (IMO anyway)

Under your system of merit, you awarded Rafa's signings 27 stars and Houllier's 20.

Must be the ale.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:59 am

Like I said, indivuially Benitez has made better signings but collectively in positions Houllier has made good signings if not better.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:12 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Like I said, indivuially Benitez has made better signings but collectively in positions Houllier has made good signings if not better.

I made a reference to Houllier and Benitez' signings somewhere else on here and Houllier came out on top in his signings (IMO anyway)

Obviously not, a star denotes value (hence better players are given more stars), therefore in your view Benitez has made the better signings overall in terms of value to the squad.

Note: You gave Kirkland a star, but not Carson.

Nicky Barmby, but not Luis Garcia.

Pongolle, but not Sissoko.

Cisse, Baros, Heskey and Camara, but not Kuyt or Fowler.

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