Liverpool FC Forum

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:10 pm

If you can't compete (which people seem to believe, I personally don't) then what you do is make sure you sign real quality rather than waste money on the likes of Kuyt, Bellamy and Morientes. That's about 20 million there, we could of signed another world star forward in place of those three. That's why we can't compete because we waste so much money on poor quality.

by **RedBlood** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:19 pm

the thing is if benitez had the choice he would sign top quality all the time...but unfortunately top quality players 99 times out of a hundred cost aloooot of money or you get lucky when they come through the youth system....replacing benitez would be a step in the wrong direction...we have improved immensely since he took over and we look like were getting stronger all th time at every level first team,reserves,youth
i think benitez has a good record in the transfer market as every manager signs flops the thing is benitez ships them out after a season if they dont show promise and he usally makes a profit on them or atleast gets the money back

benitez is a great manager and should be given all the support we can offer

by **RedBlood** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:23 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:If you can't compete (which people seem to believe, I personally don't) then what you do is make sure you sign real quality rather than waste money on the likes of Kuyt, Bellamy and Morientes. That's about 20 million there, we could of signed another world star forward in place of those three. That's why we can't compete because we waste so much money on poor quality.

we didnt sign morientes at the same time we signed the other two...and we needed 2 strikers not 1 when we signed kuyt n bellamy as we only had crouch and ciise at the club and ciise was injured
rome wasnt built in a day benitez is working towards his masterplan... only when he has it can he be judged the way he is on here at times

by **LFC2007** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:28 pm

On the whole Rafa's signings have got progressively better and that in itself is a sign of progression. Houllier was still signing a lot of sh!te towards the end of his reign.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:33 pm

Our youth team is showing signs of improvement...correct...yet how many have been given a proper go?

Benitez has made nearly 50 signings, I'd say 10 have been success. Reina, Agger, Skrtel (early goings) Arbeloa, Mascheranho, Torres, Alonso, Babel, Crouch, Lucas. One in every five isn't a great record IMO. The ones who have been good buys are as good as anything else in the league, so that's probably why his record isn't often questioned. But people sit there and complain we haven't been able to compete, just look at the 10 I mentioned, only four cost 10 million plus, yet all could get into any other side in the league so why do you need 20 million to buy a world star?

Agger and Skrtel between them cost 11 million. I'd take both over Ferdinand (30 alone) Vidic (15 alone) Carvalho (around 20 million alone) You don't need 20 million plus for a world star, you just need to know what a world star is. This is why I say money isn't a valid excuse. Talent can be found just as easily for less than 10 million as it can for players who cost 20 million upwards.

Reina cost 7 million and is a better keeper than Cech who cost three times as much. Crouch cost 7 million and has a better record in this league than Shevchenko who cost more than four times as much. Alonso is a better central midfielder than Essien but Essien cost nearly twice as much. Talent is there, so why do you need an open cheque book like Chelsea to get it? Money will never convince me why we're not competing.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:34 pm

LFC2007 wrote:On the whole Rafa's signings have got progressively better and that in itself is a sign of progression. Houllier was still signing a lot of sh!te towards the end of his reign.

Voronin is progressively better...god help us then

by **LFC2007** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:37 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:On the whole Rafa's signings have got progressively better and that in itself is a sign of progression. Houllier was still signing a lot of sh!te towards the end of his reign.

Voronin is progressively better...god help us then

He was expensive too.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:43 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Our youth team is showing signs of improvement...correct...yet how many have been given a proper go?

Benitez has made nearly 50 signings, I'd say 10 have been success. Reina, Agger, Skrtel (early goings) Arbeloa, Mascheranho, Torres, Alonso, Babel, Crouch, Lucas. One in every five isn't a great record IMO. The ones who have been good buys are as good as anything else in the league, so that's probably why his record isn't often questioned. But people sit there and complain we haven't been able to compete, just look at the 10 I mentioned, only four cost 10 million plus, yet all could get into any other side in the league so why do you need 20 million to buy a world star?

For a start that 1 in 5 stat is utter bollocks, about half of those 50 either cost f*ck all or were for the youth/reserve team. BTW, where's Paul Anderson? You think the lad will be top class.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:49 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Our youth team is showing signs of improvement...correct...yet how many have been given a proper go?

Benitez has made nearly 50 signings, I'd say 10 have been success. Reina, Agger, Skrtel (early goings) Arbeloa, Mascheranho, Torres, Alonso, Babel, Crouch, Lucas. One in every five isn't a great record IMO. The ones who have been good buys are as good as anything else in the league, so that's probably why his record isn't often questioned. But people sit there and complain we haven't been able to compete, just look at the 10 I mentioned, only four cost 10 million plus, yet all could get into any other side in the league so why do you need 20 million to buy a world star?

For a start that 1 in 5 stat is utter bollocks, about half of those 50 either cost f*ck all or were for the youth/reserve team. BTW, where's Paul Anderson? You think the lad will be top class.

Yes I think he will be top class, but I can't say he is until he's given a go. So he, like the rest of the kids, need to be given a go yet none have been for a long period of time.

by **RedBlood** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:02 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Just when we seem to be getting the pieces in place for a bright future, wouldn't it be a bit naive to sack him? Would it not be an oversight to ignore the effect that the loss of the man who brought these players to the club might have?

I think it would.

You can't say that just because a manager has brought players in means he shouldn't be sacked. Souness gave the debut to Robbie Fowler, Mark Wright and Rob Jones as well as helping Redknapp and McManaman progress into great players for this club. Should we never of sacked Souness then?

Come off it how the feck can you compare Rafa to GS? you do remember those days dont you?
The players you mentioned helped make it barable but most of em wernt even his, yet for all the money he spent the only good thing about the side back then was the youth that come though. When you think of who he let go and who he brought in it leaves me dumbfounded that you can compare the two.

I'm not comparing the two, I'm just pointing out that Souness brought in/through some talented players as well, but that doesn't excuse him from being sacked. Likewise just because Benitez brought Torres and Mascheranho to the club doesn't mean he can't be sacked.

Do we remember the signings of Josemi, Nunez, Morientes, Kromkamp, Voronin, Kuyt, Intandje, Gonzalez, Bellamy and Aurellio? If a manager is based on his transfers there's a good nine reasons why Benitez should be sacked.

Benitez has brought quality to this club, Reina, Agger, Arbeloa, Crouch, Skrtel (by the looks of things) Babel, Lucas, Alonso along with Torres and Mascheranho, but just because of that, doesn't mean he can't be sacked.

That's the point I'm making.

josemi and kromkamp were stop gap players and lasted no longer then a season they were bought and sold for 2million (no loss)

morientes was a great player and at 6million anybody in the world that needed a striker would have paid that, unfortunately he just didnt settle into the league, i think he was sold for 4million (2million loss)

voronin cost fu.ck all and will probally be shipped out next season

kuyt cannot be considered a failure he hasnt banged in the goals but to class him as a failed buy is a little harsh..

intandje is a back-up keeper on the cheap what do u expect? peter schmichael??

gonzalez was a young player that showed alot of promise but couldnt settle into the league like morientes...he was bought and sold for 4million (no loss)

bellamy was bought for 6million and sold at a profit for 8million had a decent if not spectacular campaign but made way for torres

aueriilo cost fu,ck all and is a good footballer just needs to stay clear of injuries (benitez can not predict injuries) i wouldnt class him as a failed buy

and like someone else has mentioned alot of benitez signings have been for the youth and reserve team to try and find a gem before they make their name somewhere else and end up costing 15million...this takes time and not guarenteed but looking at our reserve and youth teams i can see a hand full coming through in the next 2/3 seasons

by **RedBlood** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:09 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Our youth team is showing signs of improvement...correct...yet how many have been given a proper go?

Benitez has made nearly 50 signings, I'd say 10 have been success. Reina, Agger, Skrtel (early goings) Arbeloa, Mascheranho, Torres, Alonso, Babel, Crouch, Lucas. One in every five isn't a great record IMO. The ones who have been good buys are as good as anything else in the league, so that's probably why his record isn't often questioned. But people sit there and complain we haven't been able to compete, just look at the 10 I mentioned, only four cost 10 million plus, yet all could get into any other side in the league so why do you need 20 million to buy a world star?

For a start that 1 in 5 stat is utter bollocks, about half of those 50 either cost f*ck all or were for the youth/reserve team. BTW, where's Paul Anderson? You think the lad will be top class.

Yes I think he will be top class, but I can't say he is until he's given a go. So he, like the rest of the kids, need to be given a go yet none have been for a long period of time.

i agree mate players like anderson,insua,plesis,nemeth,hobbs should be given a run but in this day and age every game is made out to be life and death and its unfair to expect rafa to throw them in the first team when he already has players with experience in their position...this is why they are loaned out or given the odd cup game

personally i would play this team next season in the carling cup and fa cup and possible europe if we qualify with 2games spare

martin

darby san jose hobbs insua

spearing plesis

anderson hammil
lucas

nemeth

and put say 3 other young players on the bench with 4 of our top playes i.e gerrard torres babel carra to help if it going horrible wrong

by **bigmick** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:11 am

Benitez in the transfer market has been largely excellent, far superior to Houllier and it surprises me that this debate crops up now ad then. Sure the current manager has made a couple of questionable buys, but only really in the case of Kuyt would I say it was just a rank bad pick. Morientes was awful at Liverpool but everyone (including me) applauded the signing, and since he has gone back to Spain he has done well so he's hardly a bad player. Similarly Bellamy didn't really work out, but he was worth a shot and we got our money back. Pennant is in a simialr boat, a player who has the ability and has been given the opportunity so it's really up to him if he takes it. If he doesn't or can't, we'd get our money back so it's not a bad buy.

Torres was obviously a masterstroke, and while the Masherano aquisition was I think more by luck than judgement, Alosno and Sissoko were excellent purchases, as were Agger and Reina.

No, in the transfer market he is excellent, as he is as a coach, particularly defensively. The only problem is of course the way in which he picks the team. You'll never succeedover here constantly chopping and changing the starting eleven, the formation and the positions. We've categorically proven that over four years, it won't work ever. Thankfully though the manager seems to be accepting that now, and the sky really is the limit for this team if allowed to play.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:15 am

Torres was obviously a masterstroke, and while the Masherano aquisition was I think more by luck than judgement.

Luck more than judgement

Few top teams would've taken the gamble on him after his stint at West Ham.

Rafa said words to the effect of, 'We knew about him when he was in the reserves at River Plate, we knew he had quality'.

Judgement more than luck.

by **bigmick** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:29 am

Well we'll never know for sure one way or another. I remember him scoring a wonder goal for Argentina in the World Cup so he was clearly a good player, but by luck I mean that he has surprised pretty much everyone (I think including the manager) by how good he's become. We took him on loan for a year and when he first came he hardly featured, it was only really when Alonso got injured that he got a run, and even then though it seems amazing now there was a fairly heated debate about who was the better holding midfielder.

I think he's comfortably the best holding midfielder in the Premiership, nobody else even is close IMHO and he will no doubt improve given his age. I've a hunch we got a bit lucky, but I'm happy to be pulled up on the assumption. Whichever way you look at it, he was a brilliant signing luck or not.

by **RedBlood** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:05 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Torres was obviously a masterstroke, and while the Masherano aquisition was I think more by luck than judgement.

Luck more than judgement

Few top teams would've taken the gamble on him after his stint at West Ham.

Rafa said words to the effect of, 'We knew about him when he was in the reserves at River Plate, we knew he had quality'.

Judgement more than luck.

i dont think it had anything to do with luck, when rafa signed him he claimed he was the best player in the world in his position and in his age bracket and that he had known about him for years.... credit where credit is due rafa seen a world class player going to waste at a small club and moved in

Liverpool FC Forum

So who do you want to replace him ?

Who is online