Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:20 pm

Agree with a lot of what's being said here.

It's about time Rafa was put in his place. He needs to learn the difference between "employer" and "employee", and pretty sharpish, because his childish outbursts are weakening his position. There was no need for Rafa to come out and say what he did at the Press conference. He's already had his knuckles rapped from the last out-burst after Athens. At that time I agreed with him 100% because it was "always talking and no action" but this time round I don't agree with him.

I'm sure that the owners would have said that they'll discuss it with him in December and if Rafa wasn't happy with that then that needs sorting at the December meeting not via a press conference.

I did think something was up when the Bayern Munich story came out last week and I commented to a mate that either Rafa is trying to get a pay rise or he wants more money for transfers. Is it a coincidence that every time there is a transfer window approching that a story linking Rafa with a return to Spain and other big clubs come out.. Rafa isn't a stupid bloke and I wouldn't expect his agent to be either...

As much as I love Rafa, in this instance he is wrong.

by **lakes10** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:22 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:can i ask you all something, how do you feel about our manager making sounds about moving on ( the england job). i sure he did not mean it but if any of our players said this we would be saying if he not 100 % with the team he can go (Owen).

Open your eyes, engage your brain and listen soft lad.

He joked that "Maybe if I improve my English, you never know" to which he and everyone of the press laughed.

How is he making sounds about moving on ?

"lad" thank you, you have made me feel young again

"Open your eyes, engage your brain and listen"
some here have been asking you to do that for a long time.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:22 pm

bavlondon wrote:Thsi childish behaviour from Hicks and Gillete wil see Rafa leave the club for sure if it carrys on.

what childish behaviour? i must have missed that part from the owners.

i am sure that if i pumped such wealth into a football club and the manager was failing he would be out on his ear. they have backed him and made a sensible comment so i dont see how they are being childish. the only childish behaviour i see here is the same answer repeatedly in a press conference and a snide comment about the england job.

if rafa thinks he is safe then he needs to think again, he is not really in a position to lay down the law to the owners

by **PhiLFC** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:23 pm

peewee wrote:there probably is money to spend but i imagine they are loathe to pay 22 million for a substitute or for someone who will spend time out the team in some ludicrous rotation policy

Peewee... that is one excellent point.

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:27 pm

peewee wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Thsi childish behaviour from Hicks and Gillete wil see Rafa leave the club for sure if it carrys on.

what childish behaviour? i must have missed that part from the owners.

The fact that they are telling the manager that he shouldn't even be thinking about strengthening the squad with 5 weeks until the window opens.

That's f#cking ridiculous no matter where you are coming from.

by **The_Rock** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:27 pm

stmichael wrote:I did think something was up when the Bayern Munich story came out last week and I commented to a mate that either Rafa is trying to get a pay rise or he wants more money for transfers. Is it a coincidence that every time there is a transfer window approching that a story linking Rafa with a return to Spain and other big clubs come out.. Rafa isn't a stupid bloke and I wouldn't expect his agent to be either...

Thats the other thing i noticed...everytime rafa is not happy or if he wants to "warn" the club to back him, rumours of clubs interested in him crop up..... :glare:

by **The_Rock** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:30 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Rafa is demanding the support/money he wants to continue building the team; the Americans don't like being talked to in such a way by an 'employee'.[/b]

Rafa of all people should know no-one is above the club....

He does not tolerate nonsense from players....... Time to look in the mirror rafa....

It is an absolute disgrace when he mentioned he might be interested in the england job....

Rafa has to realize that he is an employee. He needs to show some respect to the owners. The owners did keep their word in the summer by giving him loads of dosh. So it isn't that they aren't supporting him.

Now its rafa's turn to support the owners vision.

Even fergie doesn't shout his mouth of at the glazers....what makes rafa think he can shout his

You are slating the guy based on assumptions deduced from an excerpt printed in a newspaper, I find it ridiculous frankly.

Its a lot more than a "stupid newspaper article"....

The gist of it is...

1)Rafa asked for money to strengthen the team
2)The owners told him to concentrate on the current team.
3)So he merely repeats what the owners told him to the media....this is really unprofessional.

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:32 pm

peewee wrote:there probably is money to spend but i imagine they are loathe to pay 22 million for a substitute or for someone who will spend time out the team in some ludicrous rotation policy

Oh please, It's down to rotation? Are you Lawrenson in disguise?

Personally I hear Hicks is not a big fan of zonal marking either.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:35 pm

LFC2007 wrote:You are slating the guy based on assumptions deduced from an excerpt printed in a newspaper, I find it ridiculous frankly.

Do you? Its not media bullshit though this is real its happening Tony Barret who is no gobsh!te spoke to rafa and its possible he will leave and not in the summer.

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:36 pm

stmichael wrote:Agree with a lot of what's being said here.

It's about time Rafa was put in his place. He needs to learn the difference between "employer" and "employee", and pretty sharpish, because his childish outbursts are weakening his position. There was no need for Rafa to come out and say what he did at the Press conference. He's already had his knuckles rapped from the last out-burst after Athens. At that time I agreed with him 100% because it was "always talking and no action" but this time round I don't agree with him.

I'm sure that the owners would have said that they'll discuss it with him in December and if Rafa wasn't happy with that then that needs sorting at the December meeting not via a press conference.

I did think something was up when the Bayern Munich story came out last week and I commented to a mate that either Rafa is trying to get a pay rise or he wants more money for transfers. Is it a coincidence that every time there is a transfer window approching that a story linking Rafa with a return to Spain and other big clubs come out.. Rafa isn't a stupid bloke and I wouldn't expect his agent to be either...

As much as I love Rafa, in this instance he is wrong.

I dont think he is.

I know the people who want him out have the chance to knock him now, but the board if they are behind him owe him the respect of letting him know what sort of money if any is available, so he can approach his targets or look at other players if he has less than he first thought. I dont think thats too much to ask.

Rafa is only an employee but he will have the clubs best interest at heart, if he thinks that his bosses are preventing him taking us forward then i would fully expect him to voice his disapproval. He should of probably gone about it in a better way but he is clearly frustrated.

What benefit is it to not tell him about possible finances until as late as dec 16th ? the answer is none, it is a clear sign that they are not backing him.
They may as well have sacked him when they started in the summer if they are not standing by him now. Trust the man you employ to do his job...and evaluate after a season. Every club whether they are top or bottom the managers will want to know from the chairman what is available in a transfer window...is it so unreasonable for our manager to want the same ?

by **PhiLFC** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:38 pm

Some interesting reading for y'all.. courtesy of "This is Anfield"

Great Spending

Yes, Jose Mourinho was brilliant, but he was crucially backed to the tune of just under £200 million pounds worth of stars, which blasts Benitez’s spending out of the water. No, Rafa does not have similar cash to spend, and this important issue seems to be worryingly lost on many who believe now that Fernando Torres has arrived for £22+ million pounds that he has no excuses.

I ask you to cast your minds back to when £24 million pound striker Didier Drogba arrived.

In-tow with the Ivorian came £15m Arjen Robben, £13m Paolo Ferreira and £19m Ricardo Carvalho, not exactly on level par with Benitez’s outlay this year, especially when you consider the only serious incoming money Chelsea received was £9m for Eidur Gudjohnson, whilst Rafa recouped almost half of this summer’s spending.

Rafa Benitez in comparison has had three years in charge, in which he has lifted the Champions League trophy in his inaugural season and the FA Cup in his second.

Great Changes

When Ferguson sends a letter praising Benitez’s tactical-nous to switch to a 3-1-4-2 with Didi Hamann man-marking Kaka so as to allow Liverpool to attack with freedom, then surely the ‘new tinkerman’ should be given his just dues as one of the top managers currently around, and thus not one to be rashly dispatched due to a disappointing run of draws in the league, draws that still leave the Reds in a healthy position to continue their challenge for the league unlike the previous year.

But the draws still throw up the old cliché of rotation, rotation, rotation. However a solid, stonewall fact of Benitez’s regime is that, according to Opta stats which form the basis of any statistical evidence in the Premiership, Liverpool have rotated less than United and Chelsea in the last three years. Unbelievable but true! Here is a fact that I shamelessly borrow from Liverpool fan and renowned author Paul Tomkins:

Manchester United won last season's league title with Alex Ferguson having made a total of 118 changes to his Premiership line-ups throughout the campaign, at an average of 3.11 changes per game. The season before that, Chelsea won the league with Mourinho also having made 118 changes to his Premiership line-ups throughout the campaign, again (obviously) at an average of 3.11 changes per game.

So how many changes did Benitez make in 2006/07?

You guessed it, 118 changes to his Premiership line-ups throughout the campaign, at what the eagle-eyed among you will know recognise as an average of 3.11 changes per game.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:40 pm

The_Rock wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Rafa is demanding the support/money he wants to continue building the team; the Americans don't like being talked to in such a way by an 'employee'.[/b]

Rafa of all people should know no-one is above the club....

He does not tolerate nonsense from players....... Time to look in the mirror rafa....

It is an absolute disgrace when he mentioned he might be interested in the england job....

Rafa has to realize that he is an employee. He needs to show some respect to the owners. The owners did keep their word in the summer by giving him loads of dosh. So it isn't that they aren't supporting him.

Now its rafa's turn to support the owners vision.

Even fergie doesn't shout his mouth of at the glazers....what makes rafa think he can shout his

You are slating the guy based on assumptions deduced from an excerpt printed in a newspaper, I find it ridiculous frankly.

Its a lot more than a "stupid newspaper article"....

The gist of it is...

1)Rafa asked for money to strengthen the team
2)The owners told him to concentrate on the current team.
3)So he merely repeats what the owners told him to the media....this is really unprofessional.

I don't know who you are quoting when you say "stupid newspaper article".

You are making assumptions which are deduced partly from newspapers, their job is to plant the seed of doubt by constructing stories and factual like reports concerning the chain of events that have occurred.

There are many different explanations for the series of events, that are just as plausible as the assumptions made in your post. The "gist" of your post is to assume, which I firmly disagree with.

The problem may simply be a breakdown in communication between the owners and manager concerning transfer activity in the January window. That is not an uncommon problem in businesses at the highest level.

I'll refrain from slating anyone involved in this apparent scene, as it would be unfair to do so, given the number of equally possible and plausible explanations.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:45 pm

"When I was in the leverage buy-out business we bought Weetabix and we leveraged it up to make our return. You could say that anyone who was eating Weetabix was paying for our purchase of Weetabix. It was just business. It is the same for Liverpool; revenues come in from whatever source and go out to whatever source and, if there is money left over, it is profit."

- Tom Hicks, on the eve of LFC v Milan, UEFA Champions League Final 2007

Fucking comparing us to Weetabix. :no

by **lakes10** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:49 pm

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez has been told by club co-owner Tom Hicks to "quit talking about new players" and to win games with those he already has.
On Thursday Benitez hinted Hicks and co-owner George Gillett were holding up his transfer plans and even suggested he could be England's next coach.

"We told him to concentrate on the games coming up. I guess he didn't like it," Hicks told the Liverpool Echo.

"We will come over in December. That is the time to talk about other issues

sorry but i like our new owners.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:08 pm

stmichael wrote:
peewee wrote:there probably is money to spend but i imagine they are loathe to pay 22 million for a substitute or for someone who will spend time out the team in some ludicrous rotation policy

Oh please, It's down to rotation? Are you Lawrenson in disguise?

Personally I hear Hicks is not a big fan of zonal marking either.

i like the way you copy my comment and put it verbatim on another forum as though you wrote it yourself.

anyone interested in seeing copying at its best look here

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=199837.160

ffs mick have you no shame, you slag my comment on here then pass it off as your own on RAWK

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