Liverpool FC Forum

0asis wrote:I was talking to a lot of fans I know (who support different clubs) and they reckon that Pennant and Bellamy will destory the atmosphere of our dressing room. Whilst many of them except that they are player of good ability and some of the fans believe we have a great chance of winning the league. They say it will come at a heavy price and our reputation may well be tarnished from them playing for us. I can see their point whilst I wanted both of them to come to Liverpool and I said it didn't matter about their off the pitch lifestyle which I don't but is there a risk that it will end up creeping into their football and Liverpool football club? We're also a club with little money from what I've heard and we've spent almost £13million on both of them, is it worth it?

Thoughts Please.

GOAT wrote:

0asis wrote:I was talking to a lot of fans I know (who support different clubs) and they reckon that Pennant and Bellamy will destory the atmosphere of our dressing room. Whilst many of them except that they are player of good ability and some of the fans believe we have a great chance of winning the league. They say it will come at a heavy price and our reputation may well be tarnished from them playing for us. I can see their point whilst I wanted both of them to come to Liverpool and I said it didn't matter about their off the pitch lifestyle which I don't but is there a risk that it will end up creeping into their football and Liverpool football club? We're also a club with little money from what I've heard and we've spent almost £13million on both of them, is it worth it?

Thoughts Please.

Well dont you think Rafa knows about the risks? He has took the risk because he believes they can put things right here, the two players are now getting a last chance to play for a big club and getting the chance to play for the team they support, both players have acknowledged that they have done wrong in the past and hope to get back on the right track here.

Yeah signing these 2 players is a risk but benitez has seen them as the right players for our team and he has taken the risk, if it doesnt work out with either of them then rafa isnt afraid to ship them out quick, its up to the players if they want to behave, if they want to have fantastic careers playing for a great club and the one they support then they ought to know they have to stay out of trouble.

bigmick wrote:Throw new personalities into a group of people, be they photocopier manufacturers, town planners or footballers and you alter the dynamic. Different leaders emerge, different factions and sub groups are formed and different people will feel marginalised.
Bellamy and Pennant are no different in this regard from Palletta, Aurelio and Gonzalez. The team ethic will change, it's as simple as that. It is the job of the management and senior players to ensure the transition bares a positive fruit.
My own feeling is that a little well channelled feistiness on a football pitch is no bad thing. The Manchester United team of the late nineties in it's pomp was a snarling and powerfully motivated bunch of footballers, willing to engage in either a football match or trench warfare whichever you preferred. Similarly the best Liverpool teams weren't short of men who were willing to grasp the moment, to take the game by the scruff of the neck to coin an old chestnut. This can take the form of a 35 yard blockbuster Steven Gerrard style, or it can take the form of a hotly disputed decision, a crunching tackle or a clenched fist appeal to the fans to up the noise.
Sheer force of will can change football matches. Players such as Roy Keane and Graham Souness made a career out of not saying "it's not our day today" and simply refusing to be beaten. Witness Pennants full-blooded booting of the water bottle in frustration when in a team being beaten 7-0 in the FA Cup or Bellamy's one man crusade against the World when on the losing team. Disruptive? Irresponsible on occasions? Probably but such players can be invaluable if the aggression is pointed in the right direction.
FWIW I think Bellamy will prove to be a brilliant signing. He had the look last season of a player who had finally got it. He now understands the game and his role within it and crucially how he can positively effect the outcome. Pennant has more to prove in my view, but with good players and strong characters around him he may also prove to be a bargain.
I have this image of when when we played Chelsea at Stamford Bridge last season. I felt we were much the better team for the first twenty minutes or so, then conceded a really poor goal to william Gallas from a set-piece. From then on, save for a few sporadic moments we seemed to almost accept defeat as inevitable to me. Even when Crespo scored the second there was still 25 minutes to go but the game was over at that point. My hope and belief is that we are bringing in players who fight to the death, using every ounce of their ability and knowhow to change the tide of the match.
Such players, winners as they are commonly known are born not made. Sometimes they need nurturing by quality managers to bring out the best in them. We have the quality manager, and we may just have found a couple of players.

Spot on as usual Mick.  Both players have plenty to prove, on the pitch and off, but they good news is they seem to know it.  Both are making all the right noises to the press about the honour of playing for Liverpool, the fantastic talent here, the need to buckle down and fight for their chance at greatness.  I especially have loved some of Bellamy's comments since arriving.  The one where he said that it is not enough to sign for his boyhood club--he wants to win the fans over and make himself into a legend in the football shirt.  That's the fire we're looking for!

Sure, they're both risky signings because of their chequered pasts but they have talent to burn and if they get their heads right about the opportunity they've been handed--as both seem to be doing so far--they will add something important to the club rather than merely make up the squad numbers or, worse, disrupt the team dynamic.

Goat's point is also key.  Rafa does not suffer fools or underperformers gladly and if either step out of line, he will be shipped out like a shot.  The bonus is, unlike some of our deadwood in the current squad, there would still be plenty of buyers because they are talented players who have been blooded (and bloodied  ) in the Premiership (just look at how easily we were able to move Heskey vs Diao).

bigmick wrote:Throw new personalities into a group of people, be they photocopier manufacturers, town planners or footballers and you alter the dynamic. Different leaders emerge, different factions and sub groups are formed and different people will feel marginalised.
Bellamy and Pennant are no different in this regard from Palletta, Aurelio and Gonzalez. The team ethic will change, it's as simple as that. It is the job of the management and senior players to ensure the transition bares a positive fruit.
My own feeling is that a little well channelled feistiness on a football pitch is no bad thing. The Manchester United team of the late nineties in it's pomp was a snarling and powerfully motivated bunch of footballers, willing to engage in either a football match or trench warfare whichever you preferred. Similarly the best Liverpool teams weren't short of men who were willing to grasp the moment, to take the game by the scruff of the neck to coin an old chestnut. This can take the form of a 35 yard blockbuster Steven Gerrard style, or it can take the form of a hotly disputed decision, a crunching tackle or a clenched fist appeal to the fans to up the noise.
Sheer force of will can change football matches. Players such as Roy Keane and Graham Souness made a career out of not saying "it's not our day today" and simply refusing to be beaten. Witness Pennants full-blooded booting of the water bottle in frustration when in a team being beaten 7-0 in the FA Cup or Bellamy's one man crusade against the World when on the losing team. Disruptive? Irresponsible on occasions? Probably but such players can be invaluable if the aggression is pointed in the right direction.
FWIW I think Bellamy will prove to be a brilliant signing. He had the look last season of a player who had finally got it. He now understands the game and his role within it and crucially how he can positively effect the outcome. Pennant has more to prove in my view, but with good players and strong characters around him he may also prove to be a bargain.
I have this image of when when we played Chelsea at Stamford Bridge last season. I felt we were much the better team for the first twenty minutes or so, then conceded a really poor goal to william Gallas from a set-piece. From then on, save for a few sporadic moments we seemed to almost accept defeat as inevitable to me. Even when Crespo scored the second there was still 25 minutes to go but the game was over at that point. My hope and belief is that we are bringing in players who fight to the death, using every ounce of their ability and knowhow to change the tide of the match.
Such players, winners as they are commonly known are born not made. Sometimes they need nurturing by quality managers to bring out the best in them. We have the quality manager, and we may just have found a couple of players.

Billy_5_Times wrote:I seen enough of Zenden last year to make my mind up on him. He is useless. Kewell has 1 good game in every 5 and that is simply not good enough. Luis Garcia I can't wait to see the back of. Kromkamp is off and about time to. Traore overstayed his welcome on his debut. I can't see Dudek staying too much longer.

I want Pongolle to stay. He gives us a different option up front.

With all these people I want out of the club there is to many I want to bring in. I think we can afford to lose Harry and Bolo because we have a number of left backs who can play left mid if Speedy Gonzalez gets injured. When Garcia plays we play with a man down so we don't need a replacement for him.

Billy_5_Times wrote:In your eyes but every fan has his own opinion and that is mine.