Liverpool FC Forum

[48-1119859832]

I was talking to a lot of fans I know (who support different clubs) and they reckon that Pennant and Bellamy will destory the atmosphere of our dressing room. Whilst many of them except that they are player of good ability and some of the fans believe we have a great chance of winning the league. They say it will come at a heavy price and our reputation may well be tarnished from them playing for us. I can see their point whilst I wanted both of them to come to Liverpool and I said it didn't matter about their off the pitch lifestyle which I don't but is there a risk that it will end up creeping into their football and Liverpool football club? We're also a club with little money from what I've heard and we've spent almost £13million on both of them, is it worth it?

Thoughts Please.

[GOAT]

I was talking to a lot of fans I know (who support different clubs) and they reckon that Pennant and Bellamy will destory the atmosphere of our dressing room. Whilst many of them except that they are player of good ability and some of the fans believe we have a great chance of winning the league. They say it will come at a heavy price and our reputation may well be tarnished from them playing for us. I can see their point whilst I wanted both of them to come to Liverpool and I said it didn't matter about their off the pitch lifestyle which I don't but is there a risk that it will end up creeping into their football and Liverpool football club? We're also a club with little money from what I've heard and we've spent almost £13million on both of them, is it worth it?

Thoughts Please.

Well dont you think Rafa knows about the risks? He has took the risk because he believes they can put things right here, the two players are now getting a last chance to play for a big club and getting the chance to play for the team they support, both players have acknowledged that they have done wrong in the past and hope to get back on the right track here.

Yeah signing these 2 players is a risk but benitez has seen them as the right players for our team and he has taken the risk, if it doesnt work out with either of them then rafa isnt afraid to ship them out quick, its up to the players if they want to behave, if they want to have fantastic careers playing for a great club and the one they support then they ought to know they have to stay out of trouble.

[dawson99]

the only risk i have heard is the bellamy dodgy knees risk.

bellamy and pennant will both be in awe of the liverpool dressing room, no one player has ever been bigger than the club and it wont change now

[kazza]

I was talking to a lot of fans I know (who support different clubs) and they reckon that Pennant and Bellamy will destory the atmosphere of our dressing room. Whilst many of them except that they are player of good ability and some of the fans believe we have a great chance of winning the league. They say it will come at a heavy price and our reputation may well be tarnished from them playing for us. I can see their point whilst I wanted both of them to come to Liverpool and I said it didn't matter about their off the pitch lifestyle which I don't but is there a risk that it will end up creeping into their football and Liverpool football club? We're also a club with little money from what I've heard and we've spent almost £13million on both of them, is it worth it?

Thoughts Please.

Well dont you think Rafa knows about the risks? He has took the risk because he believes they can put things right here, the two players are now getting a last chance to play for a big club and getting the chance to play for the team they support, both players have acknowledged that they have done wrong in the past and hope to get back on the right track here.

Yeah signing these 2 players is a risk but benitez has seen them as the right players for our team and he has taken the risk, if it doesnt work out with either of them then rafa isnt afraid to ship them out quick, its up to the players if they want to behave, if they want to have fantastic careers playing for a great club and the one they support then they ought to know they have to stay out of trouble.

I agree with all that. Let us not forget that these two players (as all players do) want success and will naturally mature. They probably see this as a last chance to reach their full potential and they will not want to blow it.

[bigmick]

Throw new personalities into a group of people, be they photocopier manufacturers, town planners or footballers and you alter the dynamic. Different leaders emerge, different factions and sub groups are formed and different people will feel marginalised.
Bellamy and Pennant are no different in this regard from Palletta, Aurelio and Gonzalez. The team ethic will change, it's as simple as that. It is the job of the management and senior players to ensure the transition bares a positive fruit.
My own feeling is that a little well channelled feistiness on a football pitch is no bad thing. The Manchester United team of the late nineties in it's pomp was a snarling and powerfully motivated bunch of footballers, willing to engage in either a football match or trench warfare whichever you preferred. Similarly the best Liverpool teams weren't short of men who were willing to grasp the moment, to take the game by the scruff of the neck to coin an old chestnut. This can take the form of a 35 yard blockbuster Steven Gerrard style, or it can take the form of a hotly disputed decision, a crunching tackle or a clenched fist appeal to the fans to up the noise.
Sheer force of will can change football matches. Players such as Roy Keane and Graham Souness made a career out of not saying "it's not our day today" and simply refusing to be beaten. Witness Pennants full-blooded booting of the water bottle in frustration when in a team being beaten 7-0 in the FA Cup or Bellamy's one man crusade against the World when on the losing team. Disruptive? Irresponsible on occasions? Probably but such players can be invaluable if the aggression is pointed in the right direction.
FWIW I think Bellamy will prove to be a brilliant signing. He had the look last season of a player who had finally got it. He now understands the game and his role within it and crucially how he can positively effect the outcome. Pennant has more to prove in my view, but with good players and strong characters around him he may also prove to be a bargain.
I have this image of when when we played Chelsea at Stamford Bridge last season. I felt we were much the better team for the first twenty minutes or so, then conceded a really poor goal to william Gallas from a set-piece. From then on, save for a few sporadic moments we seemed to almost accept defeat as inevitable to me. Even when Crespo scored the second there was still 25 minutes to go but the game was over at that point. My hope and belief is that we are bringing in players who fight to the death, using every ounce of their ability and knowhow to change the tide of the match.
Such players, winners as they are commonly known are born not made. Sometimes they need nurturing by quality managers to bring out the best in them. We have the quality manager, and we may just have found a couple of players.

[GOAT]

Gerrard seems happy enough with it...

Skysports -

Gerrard wants Bellamy bite


Steven Gerrard wants Craig Bellamy to demonstrate all his fiery attributes for Liverpool.

The Welshman was lured to Liverpool from Blackburn Rovers this summer and some believe he can spur them on to title glory.

Gerrard feels the striker has the tools to flourish at Anfield, but also believes his famed fiery streak can also benefit The Reds.

Bellamy has a history of rubbing players up the wrong way and Gerrard wants that to continue.

"As a player he's a nightmare to play against, horrible," Gerrard told The Daily Mirror. "It's funny because I've had a few run-ins with him on the pitch and I think I'll be reminding him of that.

"But, believe me, I'll be glad to have a player like that on my side. We need characters like that on our team.

"To win the league and other trophies, you need to have characters who have also got the quality - and Craig has definitely got that.

"As a player, you can be too nice. All the best players are top quality but they also have the character to go with it, that's what I like in a player, and what I like about Craig.

"Maybe we have been a bit nice as a team in recent seasons but we are toughening up, and we are becoming a very difficult side to play against. That's what we need if we are going to win the title."

[Billy_5_Times]

I think what Rafa said about Bellamy is the same for Pennant. With them playing for the club they support and it may be their last chance to play for a real big club they need to calm down off the pitch. On it I want Bellamy to be fiery thats what makes him so good.

So I don't think signing them will be real risk but like every transfer there is some risk. But if they do cause trouble off the pitch I don't think Rafa will put up with it and either sort them out or sell them.

[Bad Bob]

Throw new personalities into a group of people, be they photocopier manufacturers, town planners or footballers and you alter the dynamic. Different leaders emerge, different factions and sub groups are formed and different people will feel marginalised.
Bellamy and Pennant are no different in this regard from Palletta, Aurelio and Gonzalez. The team ethic will change, it's as simple as that. It is the job of the management and senior players to ensure the transition bares a positive fruit.
My own feeling is that a little well channelled feistiness on a football pitch is no bad thing. The Manchester United team of the late nineties in it's pomp was a snarling and powerfully motivated bunch of footballers, willing to engage in either a football match or trench warfare whichever you preferred. Similarly the best Liverpool teams weren't short of men who were willing to grasp the moment, to take the game by the scruff of the neck to coin an old chestnut. This can take the form of a 35 yard blockbuster Steven Gerrard style, or it can take the form of a hotly disputed decision, a crunching tackle or a clenched fist appeal to the fans to up the noise.
Sheer force of will can change football matches. Players such as Roy Keane and Graham Souness made a career out of not saying "it's not our day today" and simply refusing to be beaten. Witness Pennants full-blooded booting of the water bottle in frustration when in a team being beaten 7-0 in the FA Cup or Bellamy's one man crusade against the World when on the losing team. Disruptive? Irresponsible on occasions? Probably but such players can be invaluable if the aggression is pointed in the right direction.
FWIW I think Bellamy will prove to be a brilliant signing. He had the look last season of a player who had finally got it. He now understands the game and his role within it and crucially how he can positively effect the outcome. Pennant has more to prove in my view, but with good players and strong characters around him he may also prove to be a bargain.
I have this image of when when we played Chelsea at Stamford Bridge last season. I felt we were much the better team for the first twenty minutes or so, then conceded a really poor goal to william Gallas from a set-piece. From then on, save for a few sporadic moments we seemed to almost accept defeat as inevitable to me. Even when Crespo scored the second there was still 25 minutes to go but the game was over at that point. My hope and belief is that we are bringing in players who fight to the death, using every ounce of their ability and knowhow to change the tide of the match.
Such players, winners as they are commonly known are born not made. Sometimes they need nurturing by quality managers to bring out the best in them. We have the quality manager, and we may just have found a couple of players.

Spot on as usual Mick.  Both players have plenty to prove, on the pitch and off, but they good news is they seem to know it.  Both are making all the right noises to the press about the honour of playing for Liverpool, the fantastic talent here, the need to buckle down and fight for their chance at greatness.  I especially have loved some of Bellamy's comments since arriving.  The one where he said that it is not enough to sign for his boyhood club--he wants to win the fans over and make himself into a legend in the football shirt.  That's the fire we're looking for!

Sure, they're both risky signings because of their chequered pasts but they have talent to burn and if they get their heads right about the opportunity they've been handed--as both seem to be doing so far--they will add something important to the club rather than merely make up the squad numbers or, worse, disrupt the team dynamic.

Goat's point is also key.  Rafa does not suffer fools or underperformers gladly and if either step out of line, he will be shipped out like a shot.  The bonus is, unlike some of our deadwood in the current squad, there would still be plenty of buyers because they are talented players who have been blooded (and bloodied  ) in the Premiership (just look at how easily we were able to move Heskey vs Diao).

[Billy_5_Times]

The deadwood we have now are the likes of Kewell and Zenden. Neither are good enough but I reckon there is buyers out there. As for Pennant and Bellamy. Pennant has spent time inside and said in 2005 he doesn't want to go back in again so he looks to of screwed his head on right. Bellamy has promised the fans that he wont be causing trouble so I don't see where the risks are.

[redmikey]

you can't class kewell as DEADWOOD!!!!!!!!! he finaly showed some class last term and looked the player we all hoped we had signed.

zenden hasn't had enough games to be cast aside even though i think he was bought as a stop gap by rafa

rafa won't keep players he dosn't think are good enough, warnock will go even if i would like to see him make it as home grown talent is hard to come by.

people to see the door in the near future will be djimi,warnock,luis garcia,neil mellor, ping pong,sami(will take a back seat)

[JC_81]

Throw new personalities into a group of people, be they photocopier manufacturers, town planners or footballers and you alter the dynamic. Different leaders emerge, different factions and sub groups are formed and different people will feel marginalised.
Bellamy and Pennant are no different in this regard from Palletta, Aurelio and Gonzalez. The team ethic will change, it's as simple as that. It is the job of the management and senior players to ensure the transition bares a positive fruit.
My own feeling is that a little well channelled feistiness on a football pitch is no bad thing. The Manchester United team of the late nineties in it's pomp was a snarling and powerfully motivated bunch of footballers, willing to engage in either a football match or trench warfare whichever you preferred. Similarly the best Liverpool teams weren't short of men who were willing to grasp the moment, to take the game by the scruff of the neck to coin an old chestnut. This can take the form of a 35 yard blockbuster Steven Gerrard style, or it can take the form of a hotly disputed decision, a crunching tackle or a clenched fist appeal to the fans to up the noise.
Sheer force of will can change football matches. Players such as Roy Keane and Graham Souness made a career out of not saying "it's not our day today" and simply refusing to be beaten. Witness Pennants full-blooded booting of the water bottle in frustration when in a team being beaten 7-0 in the FA Cup or Bellamy's one man crusade against the World when on the losing team. Disruptive? Irresponsible on occasions? Probably but such players can be invaluable if the aggression is pointed in the right direction.
FWIW I think Bellamy will prove to be a brilliant signing. He had the look last season of a player who had finally got it. He now understands the game and his role within it and crucially how he can positively effect the outcome. Pennant has more to prove in my view, but with good players and strong characters around him he may also prove to be a bargain.
I have this image of when when we played Chelsea at Stamford Bridge last season. I felt we were much the better team for the first twenty minutes or so, then conceded a really poor goal to william Gallas from a set-piece. From then on, save for a few sporadic moments we seemed to almost accept defeat as inevitable to me. Even when Crespo scored the second there was still 25 minutes to go but the game was over at that point. My hope and belief is that we are bringing in players who fight to the death, using every ounce of their ability and knowhow to change the tide of the match.
Such players, winners as they are commonly known are born not made. Sometimes they need nurturing by quality managers to bring out the best in them. We have the quality manager, and we may just have found a couple of players.

Great post Mick.

First of all I want to say I'm chuffed to bits with the signings of Pennant and Bellamy.  Two players I have admired for a long time and Birmingham and Blackburns' best players respectively last season.  At around 6 million each that's great business.  Both quick and aggressive and both play in positions we badly needed strengthening.

Will they be a gamble?  No in my opinion.  Both should have matured and know this is their last chance at a top club.  They'll take it.

Will they disrupt the dressing room?  No imo.  Why do some people believe that footballers are airy fairy ponces who wioll be upset by the slightest thing? 2 competitive British players with strong personalities will improve the atmosphere in that dressing room, not destroy it, I'm sure of that.  Bigmick's comparison with the 90's United dressing room is spot on.  You need strong personalities and aggression in the dressing room to be successful.

[Billy_5_Times]

I seen enough of Zenden last year to make my mind up on him. He is useless. Kewell has 1 good game in every 5 and that is simply not good enough. Luis Garcia I can't wait to see the back of. Kromkamp is off and about time to. Traore overstayed his welcome on his debut. I can't see Dudek staying too much longer.

I want Pongolle to stay. He gives us a different option up front.

With all these people I want out of the club there is to many I want to bring in. I think we can afford to lose Harry and Bolo because we have a number of left backs who can play left mid if Speedy Gonzalez gets injured. When Garcia plays we play with a man down so we don't need a replacement for him.

[GOAT]

I seen enough of Zenden last year to make my mind up on him. He is useless. Kewell has 1 good game in every 5 and that is simply not good enough. Luis Garcia I can't wait to see the back of. Kromkamp is off and about time to. Traore overstayed his welcome on his debut. I can't see Dudek staying too much longer.

I want Pongolle to stay. He gives us a different option up front.

With all these people I want out of the club there is to many I want to bring in. I think we can afford to lose Harry and Bolo because we have a number of left backs who can play left mid if Speedy Gonzalez gets injured. When Garcia plays we play with a man down so we don't need a replacement for him.

Your talking a lot of sh.it there

[Billy_5_Times]

In your eyes but every fan has his own opinion and that is mine.

[GOAT]

In your eyes but every fan has his own opinion and that is mine.

So you saw enough of zenden last year to make your mind up that he is useless? Thats funny since he missed the majority of the season through injury...

And you say we have enough left wingers to get rid of zenden yet it is well known zenden is going to be used in a central midfield role this season.

Krompkamp is off and about time too? What? He's only been here 7 months..

Your comments about kewell and garcia are over the top too.