Brendan Rodgers thread (signs extended contract)

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby woof woof ! » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:09 pm

devaney » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:34 pm wrote:Sorry Woof I disagree. I saw the match live and again afterwards............................


On the subject of Stu I find his constant criticism of all things Liverpool related tedious. Skrtel and Lucas are just two examples. He's a big boy. He constructed his own oversized pedestal so forgive me if I think it is inevitable that he will fall off it at times. I like a lot of his stuff. It is just a shame that he is totally incapable of realising that like all of us he gets it wrong at times.



1, No problem with you disagreeing Dev, like you I saw the match more than once and view it differently, as they say opinions are like *****'holes we all have one.

2, "On the subject of Stu".  It's an internet forum Dev, and one we're trying to keep civilised. You disagree with another members opinion NO PROBLEM. Argue all you like BUT when arguments between members start to become PERSONAL, as we all know from previous experience, as far as the FORUM is concerned it can become a major PROBLEM.

It's better if members air their opinions on the football and not what they think of other members personalities.
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Postby devaney » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:23 pm

I regard it as a bit of banter with Stu. Certainly not to be taken too seriously.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:01 pm

devaney » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:23 pm wrote:I regard it as a bit of banter with Stu. Certainly not to be taken too seriously.

You're just being affectionate
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Postby Stu the Red » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:16 pm

devaney » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:34 pm wrote:Sorry Woof I disagree. I saw the match live and again afterwards. In what way did we have any kind of a serious problem in the first 45 minutes prior to Gerrard's unfortunate mistake. Why do you think a draw would have been good enough? Isn't that taking things slightly for granted. I can just hear the criticism if we had played for a draw and then subsequently drawn with either Palace or Newcastle. Everybody would have been saying we should have played our attacking game against Chelsea and gone for the win.Quite frankly mate it is a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

On the subject of Stu I find his constant criticism of all things Liverpool related tedious. Skrtel and Lucas are just two examples. He's a big boy. He constructed his own oversized pedestal so forgive me if I think it is inevitable that he will fall off it at times. I like a lot of his stuff. It is just a shame that he is totally incapable of realising that like all of us he gets it wrong at times.


And I also find your constant a*se kissing of anything slightly positive tedious. However at least any attempt at an insult is included within a football argument. To be quite honest, I'm not really that bothered whether you agree with my opinions or not. The fact is, anyone who's got an igloo seen that result and performance coming a mile off.

Some muppets have made the point that I didn't "post the solution and prediction before hand". I spent the whole week in actual real life telling everyone I could see what would happen... I was right... funnily enough I wasn't the only one who believed that to be the case. The point is if I could see it, why couldn't the manager... and if he could, what on earth was he doing setting his team up to play into their hands.

Had we drew that game, we'd have won the league. Due to the potential of that result to destroy the confidence, we may finish as low as third. Unfortunately, I'm a little bit f*cked that our manager either...

1. Didn't see it coming.
2. Was to naive or pig headed enough to think it didn't matter what they done...

Blowing our best chance at a title for 25 years up in smoke. Glad everyones proud of not winning the league, I'm also glad you all think qualifying for the "super league" is some sort of major achievement... However I firmly believe to do a great job for nine months and not finish it off properly because of a potential attitude problem is damn right f*cking criminal.

At this particular moment, Rodgers for me needs to give his head a shake and learn from this as this type of failiure hurts a little more than watching a nothing team finish mid table.
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Postby woof woof ! » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:46 pm

Stu the Red » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:16 pm wrote:Blowing our best chance at a title for 25 years up in smoke. Glad everyones proud of not winning the league, I'm also glad you all think qualifying for the "super league" is some sort of major achievement... However I firmly believe to do a great job for nine months and not finish it off properly because of a potential attitude problem is damn right f*cking criminal.

At this particular moment, Rodgers for me needs to give his head a shake and learn from this as this type of failiure hurts a little more than watching a nothing team finish mid table.


There are times when those of us who may try to see where you're coming from wonder why we bother !

You say "Glad everyones proud of not winning the league"

Who the fk in this forum feels that way ? Grow the fk up or fk off.

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Postby devaney » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:31 pm

Stu - just explain to me what Liverpool actually did wrong in the first 45 minutes. For the purpose of this exercise lets take Gerrard's bit of bad luck out of the equation because your view that there should have been players behind Gerrard  is far too simple. Just how much of a threat were Chelsea in the first 45 minutes? ignore this post and read the next one.
Last edited by devaney on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby devaney » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:07 pm

Stu - just explain to me what Liverpool actually did wrong in the first 45 minutes? Perhaps you're right, maybe I'm incapable of seeing where we went wrong so educate me because so far you have failed to do so.For the purpose of this exercise lets take Gerrard's bit of bad luck out of the equation because your view that there should have been players behind Gerrard  is far too simple. Just how much of a threat were Chelsea in the first 45 minutes? All match they only had 27% possession, 4 shots on target and 3 corners. They built a wall that we failed to break down. I have read nothing on here that convinces me that BR was naive or got his tactics wrong. I think to suggest that we were far to gung-ho is also not how I saw the game. 

I have refrained from being rude. I certainly don't want you taking things too seriously. I appreciate that you are a very sensitive shy retiring sort of a bloke  :laugh:
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby damjan193 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:25 pm

Even though Stu is exaggerating things as usual, the point still stands, did we really need to go so aggressively in this game? Though if Gerrard had not slipped, we would have definitely had a different result, so that's probably a valid counter argument.

As important as the game was, we have to accept the fact that you just get beaten sometimes. The winning streak had to end somewhere. Let's just drop it, move on, concentrate on our remaining games and what ever happens, happens.
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Postby Stu the Red » Thu May 01, 2014 7:01 am

woof woof ! » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:46 pm wrote:
Stu the Red » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:16 pm wrote:Blowing our best chance at a title for 25 years up in smoke. Glad everyones proud of not winning the league, I'm also glad you all think qualifying for the "super league" is some sort of major achievement... However I firmly believe to do a great job for nine months and not finish it off properly because of a potential attitude problem is damn right f*cking criminal.

At this particular moment, Rodgers for me needs to give his head a shake and learn from this as this type of failiure hurts a little more than watching a nothing team finish mid table.


There are times when those of us who may try to see where you're coming from wonder why we bother !

You say "Glad everyones proud of not winning the league"

Who the fk in this forum feels that way ? Grow the fk up or fk off.

:veryangry


You're telling me to grow up because I chose to quote a few posters? Brilliant!
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Postby Stu the Red » Thu May 01, 2014 7:26 am

devaney » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:07 pm wrote:Stu - just explain to me what Liverpool actually did wrong in the first 45 minutes? Perhaps you're right, maybe I'm incapable of seeing where we went wrong so educate me because so far you have failed to do so.For the purpose of this exercise lets take Gerrard's bit of bad luck out of the equation because your view that there should have been players behind Gerrard  is far too simple. Just how much of a threat were Chelsea in the first 45 minutes? All match they only had 27% possession, 4 shots on target and 3 corners. They built a wall that we failed to break down. I have read nothing on here that convinces me that BR was naive or got his tactics wrong. I think to suggest that we were far to gung-ho is also not how I saw the game. 

I have refrained from being rude. I certainly don't want you taking things too seriously. I appreciate that you are a very sensitive shy retiring sort of a bloke  :laugh:


Sarcasm aside you seem quite frankly seem inept at understanding the tactical side of the game. So I'll probably be wasting my time, but none the less I'll have a go as seen as I have a few minutes.

Chelsea set up in a very defensive mind set. Everyone on gods green earth knew that was going to be the case. I don't honestly believe that anybody thought Chelsea were going to come and attack us, not even their own deluded fans.

Mourinho came to Liverpool with a game plan of winning via a set piece goal or a mistake from one of our players. Had they not been leading with 20 minutes or so to go they would have opened up in an attempt to win the game from them, that's when we could have brought on Sturridge and tried to open it up.

Liverpool by hook or crook have conceded stupid goals this season. Mostly down to individual errors, however, some are down to the way we play tactically, leaving ourselves open and playing with an element of risk, some of that risk includes players on the ball being in space and being fairly iscolated to allow them time to pick a pass... if they fall over or slip or their is a heavy pass, we sometimes struggle to win the ball back quickly in our own half due to the space between our own players, especially at the back. There have been times through out the season where poor decisions have nearly cost us goals where the system has contributed and their have been others which were purely individual errors.

Mourinho knew Chelsea would score at Anfield... We've conceded a shocking amount of goals this season, Mourinho knew that due to the way we play, or an error, they would create something of note even if they defended in their own box due to the way we try to defend and due to the standard of the goalkeeper he also knew if they had that chance they'd probably take it. His job was then to keep Liverpool out.

As much as I hated the spaniard with a passion, that is the sort of game we wouldn't have lost under him. He'd have nailed that tactically and had us set up not to lose, knowing that the last two games were far more winnable than this one. Had we played deep and defensively ourselves and tried to stop Chelsea and changed our system we'd have been far harder to break down. Had we concentrated on not conceding a goal and succeeded then the job would have been done, had we allowed them more space in their half and they actually scored, they wouldn't have been as solid as their shape they had worked so hard on isn't something they'd have been able to use all the way through the match as the spaces would have opened up.

Due to us effectively pinning Chelsea back, Their wingers never really had to track back and their midfielders never had to move from infront of their defence meaning that space was practically none existant.

We created two or three half chances, thats all. It was naive to think he'd allow us to get off to a flying start like most other teams do, he'll have known that was exactly the case, hence the early time wasting to get under our skin.

I do think had we set up to keep them out, due to their mind set from the off and due to the players they didn't have on the pitch that would have been more than achievable.

On your point about had we drew this game then drew away to palace I'd be moaning about not playing for a win in the Chelsea game, thats just complete and utter bollox and clutching at straws. I'd have been critisising the palace result.

You're entitled to your opinion on why we lost that game, you can blame Gerrard all you like, it was his fault he slipped he slipped and no-one elses, it was the systems fault their was no-one their to cover him. The system has served us brilliantly most of the season... sometimes though you need to be flexible and you need to be able to adapt, sometimes, the manager needs to recognise the situation and prepare for it, sometimes you can't show a blatent a disregard for the opposition and have to set our your side accordingly...

Unfortunately for Liverpool football club, a lot of fans are pig headed and think we should play the way we play and let the opposition worry about us... thats exactly what happened. We didn't worry about the opposition and we came unstuck.
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Postby only me » Thu May 01, 2014 8:03 am

damjan193 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:25 pm wrote:Even though Stu is exaggerating things as usual, the point still stands, did we really need to go so aggressively in this game? Though if Gerrard had not slipped, we would have definitely had a different result, so that's probably a valid counter argument.

As important as the game was, we have to accept the fact that you just get beaten sometimes. The winning streak had to end somewhere. Let's just drop it, move on, concentrate on our remaining games and what ever happens, happens.


His point is jackshiit ,just another attempt to showoff his superior ,after the fact ,understanding of the game.
You said it yourself ,if Gerrard hadn't slipped the result would have been different. End of discussion.

We were playing Lucas ,FFS ,so on which aggressive ,opportunistic ,risk taking tactic is STU referring too? BR played possession attacking football and the minimal counter attacks were handled quite easily till the slip up.
This notion BR tactics have setup the Gerrards brain freeze ,is ridicules ,insulting and plain daft.
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Postby Stu the Red » Thu May 01, 2014 8:50 am

only me » Thu May 01, 2014 8:03 am wrote:
damjan193 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:25 pm wrote:Even though Stu is exaggerating things as usual, the point still stands, did we really need to go so aggressively in this game? Though if Gerrard had not slipped, we would have definitely had a different result, so that's probably a valid counter argument.

As important as the game was, we have to accept the fact that you just get beaten sometimes. The winning streak had to end somewhere. Let's just drop it, move on, concentrate on our remaining games and what ever happens, happens.


His point is jackshiit ,just another attempt to showoff his superior ,after the fact ,understanding of the game.
You said it yourself ,if Gerrard hadn't slipped the result would have been different. End of discussion.

We were playing Lucas ,FFS ,so on which aggressive ,opportunistic ,risk taking tactic is STU referring too? BR played possession attacking football and the minimal counter attacks were handled quite easily till the slip up.
This notion BR tactics have setup the Gerrards brain freeze ,is ridicules ,insulting and plain daft.


:laugh:

Stick to "supporting" your local team!
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Postby devaney » Thu May 01, 2014 9:41 am

Stu - thanks for your detailed response. Time to put it to bed because we will have to agree to differ. Just one final point. We had 26 attempts on goal and 8 of them were on target. That is considerably more than the few half chances that you suggested. Unfortunately on the day we couldn't find the back of the net. Personally I think you are giving the boring one considerably more credit than he deserves. Eto'o for Cole last night against Athletico was one of the stupidest things I have seen in sometime which suggests that even he can get it wrong.

Bit desperate mate to suggest Rafa would have done this or done that after we have been on an eleven match winning streak. BR has done some amazing work and I'm sorry if my glass nearly full approach annoys you but we are top of the league and it is May. I tend to look at that rather than criticise every little thing.

Anyway let's forget it and hope that Everton do us a favour and that we win our two final games. It is not all over yet.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby Stu the Red » Thu May 01, 2014 3:12 pm

devaney » Thu May 01, 2014 9:41 am wrote:Stu - thanks for your detailed response. Time to put it to bed because we will have to agree to differ. Just one final point. We had 26 attempts on goal and 8 of them were on target. That is considerably more than the few half chances that you suggested. Unfortunately on the day we couldn't find the back of the net. Personally I think you are giving the boring one considerably more credit than he deserves. Eto'o for Cole last night against Athletico was one of the stupidest things I have seen in sometime which suggests that even he can get it wrong.

Bit desperate mate to suggest Rafa would have done this or done that after we have been on an eleven match winning streak. BR has done some amazing work and I'm sorry if my glass nearly full approach annoys you but we are top of the league and it is May. I tend to look at that rather than criticise every little thing.

Anyway let's forget it and hope that Everton do us a favour and that we win our two final games. It is not all over yet.


No-one is suggesting Mourinho can't get it wrong, the fact you are however stating you believe I'm giving a manager who's done this sort of thing time and time again in big games too much credit is your opinion and one you're quite entitled to. You may think its pure and utter luck that the same thing has been happening over a ten year period and the same style of results work etc, I however firmly believe in football, you make your own luck.

As for your point on the "stats" I'm sorry, but the only "chances" we had were Sahko's which fell on his right foot and the ball was fired at him and Suarez at the death when Cech was in no mans land, neither of them were what I'd call real chances. To be frank, Chelsea created better chances than we did. Shots from 30 yards from Gerrard are not what I'd call chances. Again though, you're entitled to your opinion on what a chance actually is... personally I believe it to be an opportunity where we should really score... not one where you're hoping for it to go in.

We created f*ck all, had we hit the bar, post and Cech made save after save, I wouldn't be sitting here critisising tactics. The fact is, beyond goal kicks, he had absolutely nothing to do all game. Infact, having just realised... it was Schwartzer that played in goal... proves to me how little he had to do.

On the glass half full comment, you can look at it as being top of the league in May, personally I think its a glorious opportunity completely and utterly flushed down the toilet from either ignorance or naivety. You can take it in whatever context you like, however I do believe that was our best chance in 24 years and could well prove to be for the significant future... hopefully it won't work out like that, but I can't see United, City or Chelsea being as weak as they have been this season. Then there is Arsenal, Spurs and Everton who'll be looking to improve.

HOPEFULLY Everton will do us a favour, however I think there is more chance of me personally meeting God, Jesus Christ and the Devil later on in the boozer.
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Postby only me » Thu May 01, 2014 3:27 pm

Stu the Red » Thu May 01, 2014 2:12 pm wrote:
devaney » Thu May 01, 2014 9:41 am wrote:Stu - thanks for your detailed response. Time to put it to bed because we will have to agree to differ. Just one final point. We had 26 attempts on goal and 8 of them were on target. That is considerably more than the few half chances that you suggested. Unfortunately on the day we couldn't find the back of the net. Personally I think you are giving the boring one considerably more credit than he deserves. Eto'o for Cole last night against Athletico was one of the stupidest things I have seen in sometime which suggests that even he can get it wrong.

Bit desperate mate to suggest Rafa would have done this or done that after we have been on an eleven match winning streak. BR has done some amazing work and I'm sorry if my glass nearly full approach annoys you but we are top of the league and it is May. I tend to look at that rather than criticise every little thing.

Anyway let's forget it and hope that Everton do us a favour and that we win our two final games. It is not all over yet.


No-one is suggesting Mourinho can't get it wrong, the fact you are however stating you believe I'm giving a manager who's done this sort of thing time and time again in big games too much credit is your opinion and one you're quite entitled to. You may think its pure and utter luck that the same thing has been happening over a ten year period and the same style of results work etc, I however firmly believe in football, you make your own luck.

As for your point on the "stats" I'm sorry, but the only "chances" we had were Sahko's which fell on his right foot and the ball was fired at him and Suarez at the death when Cech was in no mans land, neither of them were what I'd call real chances. To be frank, Chelsea created better chances than we did. Shots from 30 yards from Gerrard are not what I'd call chances. Again though, you're entitled to your opinion on what a chance actually is... personally I believe it to be an opportunity where we should really score... not one where you're hoping for it to go in.

We created f*ck all, had we hit the bar, post and Cech made save after save, I wouldn't be sitting here critisising tactics. The fact is, beyond goal kicks, he had absolutely nothing to do all game. Infact, having just realised... it was Schwartzer that played in goal... proves to me how little he had to do.

On the glass half full comment, you can look at it as being top of the league in May, personally I think its a glorious opportunity completely and utterly flushed down the toilet from either ignorance or naivety. You can take it in whatever context you like, however I do believe that was our best chance in 24 years and could well prove to be for the significant future... hopefully it won't work out like that, but I can't see United, City or Chelsea being as weak as they have been this season. Then there is Arsenal, Spurs and Everton who'll be looking to improve.

HOPEFULLY Everton will do us a favour, however I think there is more chance of me personally meeting God, Jesus Christ and the Devil later on in the boozer.


Consider that: Without BR you wouldn't even be in the position to whine and beach over our once in a century chance of winning the title ,the magnitude of your narrow vision and ungrateful approach is amazing. So we failed winning against Chelsea boo fkcing ohoo ,respect the totally surprising journey we made in a season no one expected us even challenge the first three spots. You probably stopped watching the game half time in Istanbul.
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