Liverpool FC Forum

[Basil]

Amid all the disappointment it's worth reminding ourselves that we are punching well above our weight here, we haven't finished in the top 4 for 5 years and our last 3 finishes have been 6th, 8th and 7th.
There's only one club slugging it out toe-to-toe with the 2 financially doped oil behemoths at the top of the league and that's us, plus if we win our last 2 games even those 2 can't accumulate more points than us, they can only beat us on goal difference.
Of course our chins are on the floor after last weekend but we need a reality check, people blaming the managers tactics or certain players need to look at some of the sums of money the teams below us have spent on players, Arsenal spent £42m on 1 player and they are scraping into the top 4, our biggest signing last summer was less than half of that! United broke their transfer record in January and will be lucky to make the Europa league.

Well said, we're all so gutted and looking for excuses but we're still top and competing with two teams that are financially on a completely different level. Mourinho plays a largely second choice team that still has 500 International caps and has to resort to all out defence and slowing the game down at every opportunity - anything he can to get some sort of advantage.

[Red Focus]

I wonder whether Brendan can secretly phone Martinez to advise on how to beat City or not. We all have to be Everton supporters for one game when they play City. Everton must now allow them to get 3 points, a draw or a win for Everton will be to our advantage again.
Of the remaining 2 games, C.Palace will be the tough one. Newcastle's form lately have been absolutely abysmal and we should win that one.

[Red Focus]

sorry guys correction, typo error there. I meant Everton must NOT allow them to get 3 points.

[sgs]

In the end it wasn't a failure of tactics. It came down to an individual error that meant we had only one option- to go forward. I have no regrets about the way we played, not one!

Are you for real? No regrets about the way we played? We lost 2-0 lad, at home and played right into Mourinho's hands. It was naive and completely stupid in all honesty. The Chelsea game at the bridge told us everything we needed to know about them and no lessons were learnt from it.

Its not about hindsight, its about knowing what the opposition had come to do. We all knew exactly what was going to happen before the game, if most us knew it, Rodgers should have as well. He should have set us up to mirror Chelsea, especially when Sturridge wasn't named in the starting eleven. Towards the end of the game, it would have had to see them come out and attack, thats when the space would have opened up. Had they have stayed in tight and narrow, we could have hit them on the break.

You maybe able to "move on", you may find it easy that we've quite possibly blown our best title chance in 20 odd years... most of us can't.

If you can't move on, u might as well say you give up already; that you quit! We move on because we have a league to win; its not the past now, that is done; its the future!

We didn't play into Mourinho's hands. That would be true if they repeatedly carved us open on the break; they didn't! They got a goal from an individual error. The 2nd goal was not decisive.

Peeps need to get a grip! We have a philosophy; it means we believe in something. Not having Sturridge is hardly a basis for abandoning ur belief. We have played without him, as well as without Suarez...

Are there any lessons from the game? Absolutely! For one, we need a wide player who can unbalance a defence with the dribble, and perhaps a CM who can break from deep (we did miss Hendo in this respect).

But we move on!

[ConnO'var]

Conn - do you think by stating that this is not the time to be pointing the finger at anybody remotely associated with the club then gives you the right to criticise BR for being naive. I'm not sure what you're pointing Conn but it reads like a finger of substantial proportions to me.

Our captain slipped and they got a lucky goal. End of. 

Sorry mate, generally I like your stuff but that post comes across as very harsh.

Sorry for the late reply Dev.... Was stuck with some urgent stuff at work and just got back after an 18 hour shift.
If my post came across as very harsh then I need to apologise as that was far from my intent. Calling BR a little naive this time around is just my way of providing constructive criticism. It is by no means a put down. Perhaps the term i should have used was "too adventurous" in the context of a game against an opponent that was playing not to lose. All we really needed was one point from chelsea. and we would have been guaranteed 2nd place and in pole position for the title. Going hell for leather was just a little too risk tolerant for me. I know its hard to change a winning formula but we do need to be flexible enough to be able to alter our tactics when the occasion calls for it. That is what i meant by being naive.

Yes, an individual error changed the tone of the match but did we really need to put ourselves in that position?
Less we forget that the loss of Henderson and Sturridge had already meant that we lacked a turbocharger in the engine room. We had to go for a more prosaic midfield of Allen and Lucas in front of Gerrard. Twin carburettors if you will and one was not fully functional. So did we really have to redline the car?

BR has done well and I am sure he will learn from this. And I am not claiming to be a football tactical guru either. My analysis was based on 20/20 hindsight.

Human error aside, we were out thought my Mourinho... he came for a draw with hopes of stealing a win knowing full well that we were going for the title and had no experience being in front at so late a time in the season. As such, he came to frustrate and hoped for a mistake which duly came around.

So, yes... for me it was a little naive and inexperienced on our part. But it is not over yet and I still have hope that we will bring it home.
Even if we don't, we have already taken giant strides and I am so proud of the club that my heart could burst..... and I feel that we may yet do it... I just worry that the loss took the wind out of our sails and we won't be able to shake it off.

[devaney]

Cheers Conn - I'll settle for too adventurous and were on the same page 

Fingers crossed it was a blip and Palace and Newcastle will be dispensed with accordingly. Henderson has been a massive miss in the last two games and his suspension could not have happened at a worse time.

[Stu the Red]

What I find quite laughable is the fact people still think that Mourinho didn't plan this and we were unlucky.

Chelsea were absolutely superb in what they set out to do. Which was to disrupt Liverpool, neutralise their strengths and expose our glaring weakness. In a game we didn't have to win we went typically gung ho, despite earlier in the season proving we struggled with Chelsea's physicality and organisation. Mourinho knew we would do this, just as we knew he'd set up to do what he did.

We've been exceptional this season, but that doesn't excuse the naivety the other day. Those who deny it was naïve are simply living with their head in the clouds as usual to be quite frank.

We didn't have to chase that game and we didn't have to win to secure a league title. Had that game been the worst 0-0 game ever, then we'd have achieved what we needed... there is a time and place for style... sometimes however, its better to just take what you need and move on. Chelsea did. Had we set out to contain them and not concede we'd have been in the driving seat. Had we mirrored their tactics that would have created space later in the game and maybe even confused Mourinho... We lost, the manager got it wrong, theirs got it right.

Simple as that.

[LFC1990]

Wow supporting the opposite manager over ours thats a new low even for you stu

We went out and played football , The liverpool way, instead of tactics that were dire and not actually playing football. If we go on to come second or third this season I will be proud of the manager and the players for giving their all in EVERY match and not settling for underhand tactics

[SouthCoastShankly]

Wow supporting the opposite manager over ours thats a new low even for you stu

We went out and played football , The liverpool way, instead of tactics that were dire and not actually playing football. If we go on to come second or third this season I will be proud of the manager and the players for giving their all in EVERY match and not settling for underhand tactics

The majority of Stu's posts are negative towards an LFC player, the manager, owners or the club.

No wonder he has his authenticity as a supporter scrutinised.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

What I find quite laughable is the fact people still think that Mourinho didn't plan this and we were unlucky.

Chelsea were absolutely superb in what they set out to do. Which was to disrupt Liverpool, neutralise their strengths and expose our glaring weakness. In a game we didn't have to win we went typically gung ho, despite earlier in the season proving we struggled with Chelsea's physicality and organisation. Mourinho knew we would do this, just as we knew he'd set up to do what he did.

We've been exceptional this season, but that doesn't excuse the naivety the other day. Those who deny it was naïve are simply living with their head in the clouds as usual to be quite frank.

We didn't have to chase that game and we didn't have to win to secure a league title. Had that game been the worst 0-0 game ever, then we'd have achieved what we needed... there is a time and place for style... sometimes however, its better to just take what you need and move on. Chelsea did. Had we set out to contain them and not concede we'd have been in the driving seat. Had we mirrored their tactics that would have created space later in the game and maybe even confused Mourinho... We lost, the manager got it wrong, theirs got it right.

Simple as that.

We didn't go gung-ho though, the first 20 minutes were a non event and the whole match probably would have been a non-event too if Gerrard hadn't have let the ball run under his foot and slipped.
If that would have been Skrtel or Johnson slipping over instead of Gerrard I doubt you'd be blaming the managers tactics then.
And praising Chelsea's performance on Sunday is just plain bizarre, yes you can appreciate a good defensive performance but Chelsea went beyond that, their gamesmanship was terrible, never in all my years watching the game can I remember a team blatantly time wasting from the first minute and that's without mentioning his other histrionics like his 'in-your-face-Liverpool' celebration, him refusing to give Gerrard the ball back for a throw in, 2 players going down at a time knowing the ref has to stop the game, countless players tying their bootlaces up/going down with cramp just before they take a set piece etc etc etc
I can't believe your praising those tactics, whoever coined the phrase anti-football to describe his philosophy got it spot on, I really hope Atletico beat them tonight, I can handle a class act like Pellegrini winning something (even the league) but it would be a sad day for footy if Mourinho wins the CL.

[Thommo's perm]

I like to use a boxing analogy. We have been slick and awesome throughout the season, effectively knocking people out early doors. We have had a few upsets, but we have won most of or contests comfortably.
On sunday we came up against a determined and seasoned spoiler. This type uses all the tricks in the book to disrupt your flow: holding, grabbing, feigning injury, time wasting, head butting, hitting below the belt, you name it. And we, try as we might, couldnt find a way round these tactics. We had no help from the ref, who in fact made it worse for us by adding on extra time which worked in the oppositions favour.
Then the classic sucker punch, a mistake, a lack of concentration, a slip up where we dropped our guard and we were on the canvass. We made the 8 count but it was effectively all over as we'd lost our way, rhythm, co-ordination. The bombs had gone to be replaced with light punches and swinging misses. The second goal was the knockout blow and it was over. We stood bruised and beaten, but proud of our performance and adamant that this was the way to do it. History will show the scoreline, but the manner of the win will be irrelevant.
I believe we must look at how we counter this kind of approach in case other teams see our style as a weakness and do the same

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I like to use a boxing analogy. We have been slick and awesome throughout the season, effectively knocking people out early doors. We have had a few upsets, but we have won most of or contests comfortably.
On sunday we came up against a determined and seasoned spoiler. This type uses all the tricks in the book to disrupt your flow: holding, grabbing, feigning injury, time wasting, head butting, hitting below the belt, you name it. And we, try as we might, couldnt find a way round these tactics. We had no help from the ref, who in fact made it worse for us by adding on extra time which worked in the oppositions favour.
Then the classic sucker punch, a mistake, a lack of concentration, a slip up where we dropped our guard and we were on the canvass. We made the 8 count but it was effectively all over as we'd lost our way, rhythm, co-ordination. The bombs had gone to be replaced with light punches and swinging misses. The second goal was the knockout blow and it was over. We stood bruised and beaten, but proud of our performance and adamant that this was the way to do it. History will show the scoreline, but the manner of the win will be irrelevant.
I believe we must look at how we counter this kind of approach in case other teams see our style as a weakness and do the same

I don't think we need a plan B mate, our style of footy breaks teams down but only when our players are in form and playing well, on Sunday Suarez looked tired, Sturridge clearly wasn't fit and Coutinho had an off day.
No matter what system you play if your players are tired, half fit and out of form it's not going to go well.
I believe what we need is a not a contingency plan but a deeper squad, I'm sure it would have been a different game if Rodgers had the luxury of bringing off a couple of our players who were struggling and bringing on a couple of players like Lallana and Konoplyanka.
Our forwards are out on their feet, City had Alvaro Negredo who scored a lot of goals mid season to take the pressure off Aguero and Dzeko but our front two have been doing all the heavy lifting (often carrying an under performing midfield and defence) for nine months straight now.  We must be the only team to challenge for the title in the last decade who hasn't had the ability to go to it's bench. How many times have United been bailed out over the years by a Solkskjaer or Hernandez coming off the bench to get a vital goal?
It's not a new plan we need but new players, and not bargain basement ones we need players that can change games.

[Kenny Kan]

I like to use a boxing analogy. We have been slick and awesome throughout the season, effectively knocking people out early doors. We have had a few upsets, but we have won most of or contests comfortably.
On sunday we came up against a determined and seasoned spoiler. This type uses all the tricks in the book to disrupt your flow: holding, grabbing, feigning injury, time wasting, head butting, hitting below the belt, you name it. And we, try as we might, couldnt find a way round these tactics. We had no help from the ref, who in fact made it worse for us by adding on extra time which worked in the oppositions favour.
Then the classic sucker punch, a mistake, a lack of concentration, a slip up where we dropped our guard and we were on the canvass. We made the 8 count but it was effectively all over as we'd lost our way, rhythm, co-ordination. The bombs had gone to be replaced with light punches and swinging misses. The second goal was the knockout blow and it was over. We stood bruised and beaten, but proud of our performance and adamant that this was the way to do it. History will show the scoreline, but the manner of the win will be irrelevant.
I believe we must look at how we counter this kind of approach in case other teams see our style as a weakness and do the same

I don't think we need a plan B mate, our style of footy breaks teams down but only when our players are in form and playing well, on Sunday Suarez looked tired, Sturridge clearly wasn't fit and Coutinho had an off day.
No matter what system you play if your players are tired, half fit and out of form it's not going to go well.
I believe what we need is a not a contingency plan but a deeper squad, I'm sure it would have been a different game if Rodgers had the luxury of bringing off a couple of our players who were struggling and bringing on a couple of players like Lallana and Konoplyanka.
Our forwards are out on their feet, City had Alvaro Negredo who scored a lot of goals mid season to take the pressure off Aguero and Dzeko but our front two have been doing all the heavy lifting (often carrying an under performing midfield and defence) for nine months straight now.  We must be the only team to challenge for the title in the last decade who hasn't had the ability to go to it's bench. How many times have United been bailed out over the years by a Solkskjaer or Hernandez coming off the bench to get a vital goal?
It's not a new plan we need but new players, and not bargain basement ones we need players that can change games.

We're the only team in recent history who are challenging for the title without European football, ergo, I don't believe all that 'flat on their feet stuff' not after playing one game a week for the best part of a season.

It (the Chelsea match) was much more psychological than it was physical, we were in control of that game until the 'slip', after that everything became impatient, rushed and panicked as Chelsea (if it's even possible) tightened up, and dropped even deeper. The pressure was there to get that goal and our play became more panicked as opposed to physical fatigue.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

We haven't got European football but we are the only team challenging for the title with a threadbare squad

[supersub]

stu is an imbecile.....we never went gung ho...we were totally in control of the game until Gerrard slipped......