Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:03 am

andy_g wrote:can we start a dedicated flag burning thread?

by **NANNY RED** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:36 am

andy_g wrote:can we start a dedicated flag burning thread?

by **serendipity** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:44 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
andy_g wrote:can we start a dedicated flag burning thread?

Little things, little minds, very very little minds!

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:21 pm

The Texas Rangers owed it's creditors $540m of that $465m was secured against the club and $75m was secured against Hicks Sports Group a division of Hicks Holdings Limited Liability Company.

A pretty similar scenario to Liverpool where the vast majority of the debt £268.6m is secured against the club with £110m theoretically secured against Hicks and Gillet.... See more

With the Rangers theoretically $75m of their debt was secured against Hicks Sports Group. What Hicks did was transferred 150 acres of the club's land to Ballpark Real Estate LP a separate entity from Hicks Holdings or Hicks Sports Group but owned entirely by Tom Hicks himself.

He did this by promising to build on this land and make a fortune for the Rangers he had to halt these plans because of the economic climate. Does this sound familiar to anyone, I wonder if he promised to have a spade in the ground in sixty days there as well.

In effect when Hicks forced the Rangers into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy his $75m liabilities were covered by the value of Ballpark Real Estate LP $75m.

It gets much much better for Hicks though In the below market deal that Hicks is trying to force though the Texas Rangers have agreed to pay the $75m that is secured against Hicks Sports Group. So Hicks walks away without having to pay the $75m he theoretically guaranteed and gets to keep Ballpark Holdings Llc.

That still doesn't explain why the Creditors of the Rangers are only receiving $230m of the $530m the club is being sold for.

There are two primary reasons for this the first is that Hicks has done exactly what he has done with LFC he has set up holding Companies that have also borrowed money against the club. US sports franchises are strictly prohibited from getting into too much debt. Sadly Hicks has found ways around this.

“We have rules concerning how much debt you can carry. Some of you are getting around this by using holding companies to access loans outside of your clubs, and putting yourself in danger of being overleveraged. Stop it. Homeowners across the country have found out the price for overleveraging themselves"

excerpt taken from: 'Selig Needs to Pull the Trigger on Texas Rangers Sale'
Maury Brown (Founder and President of the Business of Sports Network)
Update - 13/05/10.

The other reason the Creditors are only getting $230m out of the $530m is the way Hicks has setup his companies.

Hicks has setup Hicks Holdings LLC to control his sporting empire.

This has four separate divisions Hicks Sports Group, Hicks Equity Partners, Hicks Real Estate Partners and Hicks Trans American partners

Hicks Sports Group buys the Sports franchise and borrows money against the Club but the real Estate is held by a sister company Hicks Real Estate Partners. When it goes tits up the loans are secured against the Club and the so called personal guarantees are secured against Hicks Sports Group.

Guess what Hicks Sports Group is a Limited liability Company so unless you can prove fraud or misrepresentation then Hicks Holdings and Hicks himself are not liable for the companies debt.

The more you dig the worse it gets Hicks has set up a myriad of companies in the States, In England and off shore in the Cayman Islands all of which have one thing in common they are all Limited companies.

If anyone thinks that cutting LFC's revenues will have an effect on Hicks himself they are sadly mistaken.

The only glimmer of hope is that contrary to the likes of what Broughton and Purslow have been telling us the RBS has not given Hicks and Gillet an open ended re-financing the £237m owed to the RBS is up for renewal in September and the RBS are expecting their £40m interest payment in the next few weeks.

Our Only hope is to stop Purslow and Broughton's player sales, we must ignore the poisonous propaganda that is about to come our way about Mascherano, Torres and Gerrard being desparate to leave.

We mustn't turn a blind eye to player sales the way we did to Benitez's culling.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:29 pm

lakes10 wrote:as i just posted in the other thread but.
i wonder how Liverpool fans are going to feel when they burn the photo of Bill Shakly tonight, I feel sick just thinking about it.

Lakes, who's going to burn a picture of Shanks?

by **tubby** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:32 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
lakes10 wrote:as i just posted in the other thread but.
i wonder how Liverpool fans are going to feel when they burn the photo of Bill Shakly tonight, I feel sick just thinking about it.

Lakes, who's going to burn a picture of Shanks?

A bunch of American investment bankers. :glare:

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:32 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
lakes10 wrote:as i just posted in the other thread but.
i wonder how Liverpool fans are going to feel when they burn the photo of Bill Shakly tonight, I feel sick just thinking about it.

Lakes, who's going to burn a picture of Shanks?

No one ignore him.

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:32 pm

Sorry if our american fans are upset at the flag burning ,but the gloves are off now .There's probably going to be some other stuff that will uset people in the future aswell . Your going to have to decide wether you want your club back or not . SOS represents it's members and SOS will do whatever it's members tell it to do , by majority decision . Tough times ahead for the club , the fights probably going to get dirty (imo ) from now on .So your going to have to fight or step aside .

by **Reg** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:42 pm

Well said Igor.

Lakes - leave the room son. :laugh:

by **jacdaniel** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:54 pm

Great work Igor. Wish i lived in Liverpool to join the fight.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:57 pm

jacdaniel wrote:Great work Igor. Wish i lived in Liverpool to join the fight.

You don't have to be in Liverpool to join the fight. There are other ways you can contribute to it.

by **jacdaniel** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:01 pm

i meant the marches and things like that

by **tubby** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:12 pm

Yeah same here. Anything we can do Igor let us know... will join SOS later once im back at home

by **Reg** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:14 pm

Just join.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:20 pm

jacdaniel wrote:i meant the marches and things like that

They are putting together an option for a fans buyout.
They have accumilated 50 thousand pound to date I know its not much but its a start at getting our club back.

The Spirit of Shankly wish to inform members that there have been detailed discussions with Share Liverpool over the last six months regarding the progress that had been made by Share Liverpool in promoting a supporters' ownership scheme.

The discussions centred on the perception from our members (and supporters generally) that progress had stalled under the Share Liverpool scheme and that an opportunity was being lost which might not be available again for some time.

The Management Committee of the Spirit of Shankly reached the conclusion that a merger of the two organisations would be appropriate in order to use the momentum and resources that the Union had together with the expertise that undoubtedly existed within Share Liverpool.

The merger discussions reached a point where the Union put a formal proposal to Share Liverpool for merger and Share Liverpool met on 2nd June to consider the offer.

Unfortunately Share Liverpool have rejected a merger which has left the Union with no alternative but to put into place a contingency plan that we have been working on for some time.

This plan involves the creation and launch of a credit union scheme to collect payments from supporters to establish a fund for the purchase of a stake in the Club. It will allow for members to make monthly payments to reach the starting point of £500 per supporter.

This will be launched this summer.

In addition the best of the Share Liverpool proposals relating to the structure of how the scheme will work and the approach to wealthier supporters and commercial organisations will still take place except now there will be transparent progress. Members will see their funds safely secure and will be able to see the growth in the fund.

We would urge all those that made an initial pledge to Share Liverpool to fall in behind the Union with the promise of action, progress and the best effort that can be made for us to secure a preliminary stake in our Club.

We have put a more detailed explanation of the background to this decision on our website at http://www.spiritofshankly.com/supporter-ownership.html

Spirit of Shankly

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