Liverpool FC Forum

by **Tricky Dicky** » Mon May 31, 2010 1:13 pm

Do instead name me a team that isn't top of the wage and spending list and still winning trophies??

Well, no matter the manager, it doesn't exist. Live with it!

that's not the point, you've gone off on another tangent.

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon May 31, 2010 1:45 pm

Tricky Dicky wrote:
Do instead name me a team that isn't top of the wage and spending list and still winning trophies??

Well, no matter the manager, it doesn't exist. Live with it!

that's not the point, you've gone off on another tangent.

You make perfect sense mate.

There are far too many people willing to let Rafa off the hook for a disastrous season because of the nightmare situation with the owners.
I agree totally with you.
While the owners are clearly a major factor in our ability to compete, they are not the sole reason for whats been going wrong.

I am 10000000% certain that Rafa and the players underachieved last season.
If we are stuck with these owners for the forseeable future, which is looking likely. Do we just accept our fate as mere also rans now in the premiership and surrender meekly ?
Or do we look at what we have and think we still have a top side that should be able to compete for a top 4 place and get to domestic finals etc etc etc ?

I think we were more than capable of doing that with better management last season and i think we will be this season as well.

by **lakes10** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:13 pm

so going by ssn this morning there are two names left in the running for the inter job...one is an England manager and the other is a Liverpool manager.

whos going to be the last man standing?

by **PabloAimar** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:20 pm

Tricky Dicky wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
iansu wrote:I am a all time liverpool fan no matter what liverpool is flying high or low.In my opinion,he is a great manage overall even though sometime I don't understand his substitutions in some games may be I don't know much about how to control a game.
As u may know,if u sack Rafa,who will be his successor with no transfer kitty.No manager can build a club with no transfer money.Even though u hate him or not,no new manager can deal with current situation,he is the only one and currently operating the job.So he is the best fit man for the manager job at the moment.
In my mind,the managers tagged as my favourite or will-be-the-most-outstanding-manager most of u will agree I think are our current manager Rafa,Guus Hindink,Real madrid-exit-bound Pellegrini,O'neil and Mourinho.They are all good one.
If u ask me,which one u will choose.That one will be Hindink I think.I realised him when he was at chelsea in a short spell.The chelsea team while he was there is a really strong squad.I still remember the liverpool vs chelsea 1st leg at anfield.Normally we try very hard to be in command in our home match against every big team.In that match also,we tried every thing even though we lost,our performance is not bad,chelsea is better than us .In that match,we can see their strength and how hard they are to beat.Prior to chelsea game our mood is upbeat because we beat madrid and united 4-0 and 4-1 away respectively in a row.I think u can see what I mean.

People keep asking the questions about his successor and working with no money etc.

I'll make an analogy to help explain my answer:

Sven Goran Ericksson and Steve McClaren did not get the best out of the players they had at their diposal. They don't go out and buy players for England, they have to work with what they've got. By all accounts many would agree that many of the international players a decent individuals anyway.

Enter Fabio Capello who's record thus far is very very good and he certainly has got more out of the England players than either Sven or Shcteve have.

Therefore presuming Rafa cannot do it, does not mean any manager in world football will not be able to do it either.

So you're comparing club football to international football now?

I'm offering an analogy to make my point which is just because people are wanting a change in manager; and the counter point is, "who could do better under the same circumstances" (insinuating nobody). Does NOT mean there isn't a manager out there (world) who CAN'T do better.

I'm not comparing football between club and country, I thought my point was pretty clear for most.

I agree, you made a perfectly understandable analogy.

Emerald Red, here's a club football example for you:
replace sven and steve with Phil Taylor
replace fabio with Bill Shankly
replace england with Liverpool

Make sense now?

I personally wouldn't mind Rafa staying on for a few years as he is a good manager, but some people on here go way overboard when defending him

by **parchpea** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:34 pm

If Inter are serious about Benitez I find it hard to imagine there would be too many problems doing a deal. President Morrati appears to have put the line out hoping for a bite by stating he thinks a deal to lure Benitez would prove difficult but Im not so sure. Considering where Inter stand right now and the state we are in you would have thought Rafa would be more than happy to move on and Liverpool content to try something different and not stand in his way.

by **lakes10** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:49 pm

parchpea wrote:If Inter are serious about Benitez I find it hard to imagine there would be too many problems doing a deal. President Morrati appears to have put the line out hoping for a bite by stating he thinks a deal to lure Benitez would prove difficult but Im not so sure. Considering where Inter stand right now and the state we are in you would have thought Rafa would be more than happy to move on and Liverpool content to try something different and not stand in his way.

Rafa will only ever take another job if he is given the samw power as he has at liverpool.......but there are not manu mugs out their like our owners that would give him that power again

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:49 pm

Tricky Dicky wrote:
iansu wrote:I am a all time liverpool fan no matter what liverpool is flying high or low.In my opinion,he is a great manage overall even though sometime I don't understand his substitutions in some games may be I don't know much about how to control a game.
As u may know,if u sack Rafa,who will be his successor with no transfer kitty.No manager can build a club with no transfer money.Even though u hate him or not,no new manager can deal with current situation,he is the only one and currently operating the job.So he is the best fit man for the manager job at the moment.
In my mind,the managers tagged as my favourite or will-be-the-most-outstanding-manager most of u will agree I think are our current manager Rafa,Guus Hindink,Real madrid-exit-bound Pellegrini,O'neil and Mourinho.They are all good one.
If u ask me,which one u will choose.That one will be Hindink I think.I realised him when he was at chelsea in a short spell.The chelsea team while he was there is a really strong squad.I still remember the liverpool vs chelsea 1st leg at anfield.Normally we try very hard to be in command in our home match against every big team.In that match also,we tried every thing even though we lost,our performance is not bad,chelsea is better than us .In that match,we can see their strength and how hard they are to beat.Prior to chelsea game our mood is upbeat because we beat madrid and united 4-0 and 4-1 away respectively in a row.I think u can see what I mean.

People keep asking the questions about his successor and working with no money etc.

I'll make an analogy to help explain my answer:

Sven Goran Ericksson and Steve McClaren did not get the best out of the players they had at their diposal. They don't go out and buy players for England, they have to work with what they've got. By all accounts many would agree that many of the international players a decent individuals anyway.

Enter Fabio Capello who's record thus far is very very good and he certainly has got more out of the England players than either Sven or Shcteve have.

Therefore presuming Rafa cannot do it, does not mean any manager in world football will not be able to do it either.

While I don't wish to be too dismissive of your analogy ,it seems its structure has more holes than the obligatory colander

Firstly no England manager has had to juggle the intensity of the strife going on behind closed doors that Benitez has had to endure

Secondly this is International football and as we all should know it is an entirely different animal than that of a domestic nature ,the Premier League throws up a hell of a lot more stresses than the International scene ,the Premier League is week in week out and totally different than the convalescing an England manager would be afforded

Thirdly and finally, if Rafa was in charge of England I dare say he would offer a more competent attempt at achieving success than McClaren or Sven ,and in that respect I hold him in the same illustrious company as Capello ,and funnily enough so do all the countless European giants that have tried and failed to procure his signature

by **Tricky Dicky** » Mon May 31, 2010 4:23 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:
iansu wrote:I am a all time liverpool fan no matter what liverpool is flying high or low.In my opinion,he is a great manage overall even though sometime I don't understand his substitutions in some games may be I don't know much about how to control a game.
As u may know,if u sack Rafa,who will be his successor with no transfer kitty.No manager can build a club with no transfer money.Even though u hate him or not,no new manager can deal with current situation,he is the only one and currently operating the job.So he is the best fit man for the manager job at the moment.
In my mind,the managers tagged as my favourite or will-be-the-most-outstanding-manager most of u will agree I think are our current manager Rafa,Guus Hindink,Real madrid-exit-bound Pellegrini,O'neil and Mourinho.They are all good one.
If u ask me,which one u will choose.That one will be Hindink I think.I realised him when he was at chelsea in a short spell.The chelsea team while he was there is a really strong squad.I still remember the liverpool vs chelsea 1st leg at anfield.Normally we try very hard to be in command in our home match against every big team.In that match also,we tried every thing even though we lost,our performance is not bad,chelsea is better than us .In that match,we can see their strength and how hard they are to beat.Prior to chelsea game our mood is upbeat because we beat madrid and united 4-0 and 4-1 away respectively in a row.I think u can see what I mean.

People keep asking the questions about his successor and working with no money etc.

I'll make an analogy to help explain my answer:

Sven Goran Ericksson and Steve McClaren did not get the best out of the players they had at their diposal. They don't go out and buy players for England, they have to work with what they've got. By all accounts many would agree that many of the international players a decent individuals anyway.

Enter Fabio Capello who's record thus far is very very good and he certainly has got more out of the England players than either Sven or Shcteve have.

Therefore presuming Rafa cannot do it, does not mean any manager in world football will not be able to do it either.

While I don't wish to be too dismissive of your analogy ,it seems its structure has more holes than the obligatory colander

Firstly no England manager has had to juggle the intensity of the strife going on behind closed doors that Benitez has had to endure

Secondly this is International football and as we all should know it is an entirely different animal than that of a domestic nature ,the Premier League throws up a hell of a lot more stresses than the International scene ,the Premier League is week in week out and totally different than the convalescing an England manager would be afforded

Thirdly and finally, if Rafa was in charge of England I dare say he would offer a more competent attempt at achieving success than McClaren or Sven ,and in that respect I hold him in the same illustrious company as Capello ,and funnily enough so do all the countless European giants that have tried and failed to procure his signature

You've missed the point too.

Before Capello we had McLaren which both more or less have the same group of players to work with.

Capello has got, will get more out of the same players at his disposal.

NOW,

my point is, people say the next manager won't or can't do better given the same circumstances as Rafa. It's almost a given in most peoples eyes.

My analogy to make it crystal clear is; if Capello can get more out of his players than Mclaren.

Why is it deemed that the next manager to come along at LFC won't get more out of the SAME group of players than Rafa?

It's an absolutely pointless opinion to hold, implying that the next possible manager after Rafa won't/can't do a better job under the same circumstances.

And yes he has been courted with a few teams, Madrid recently cooled their interest though viewing Mourinho as he better of the two. And as for Inter's 'apparent' want of him, it's all media speculation because the media as we all know, hate us and would love to see nothing more than LFC fall from grace

by **Zidane** » Mon May 31, 2010 4:32 pm

lakes10 wrote:
parchpea wrote:If Inter are serious about Benitez I find it hard to imagine there would be too many problems doing a deal. President Morrati appears to have put the line out hoping for a bite by stating he thinks a deal to lure Benitez would prove difficult but Im not so sure. Considering where Inter stand right now and the state we are in you would have thought Rafa would be more than happy to move on and Liverpool content to try something different and not stand in his way.

Rafa will only ever take another job if he is given the samw power as he has at liverpool.......but there are not manu mugs out their like our owners that would give him that power again

This power stuff is so much :censored:

imo, what power does he exactly have here? The power of signing the players he wants to sign rather than the players Broughton/Parry/Purslow/Owners want to sign? Most managers have that. The power of what then? The power of his almighty transfer budget? He doesn't have any power here really, the powers he does have are powers that managers SHOULD have. The problem before was they tried to strip that away from him and he had to fight to get it back. I'm getting sick of the :censored:

he deals with constantly and this summer should really show people how badly things have been, and still are.

by **lakes10** » Mon May 31, 2010 4:46 pm

Zidane wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
parchpea wrote:If Inter are serious about Benitez I find it hard to imagine there would be too many problems doing a deal. President Morrati appears to have put the line out hoping for a bite by stating he thinks a deal to lure Benitez would prove difficult but Im not so sure. Considering where Inter stand right now and the state we are in you would have thought Rafa would be more than happy to move on and Liverpool content to try something different and not stand in his way.

Rafa will only ever take another job if he is given the samw power as he has at liverpool.......but there are not manu mugs out their like our owners that would give him that power again

This power stuff is so much imo, what power does he exactly have here? The power of signing the players he wants to sign rather than the players Broughton/Parry/Purslow/Owners want to sign? Most managers have that. The power of what then? The power of his almighty transfer budget? He doesn't have any power here really, the powers he does have are powers that managers SHOULD have. The problem before was they tried to strip that away from him and he had to fight to get it back. I'm getting sick of the he deals with constantly and this summer should really show people how badly things have been, and still are.

er mate..come keep up, look at the power he has in the club, sack anyone he dont get on with, full charge of the youthset up, full charge of buyimg new players.

I dont think there is any other manager that has that power at any other club.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon May 31, 2010 4:58 pm

Tricky Dicky wrote:While I don't wish to be too dismissive of your analogy ,it seems its structure has more holes than the obligatory colander

Firstly no England manager has had to juggle the intensity of the strife going on behind closed doors that Benitez has had to endure

Secondly this is International football and as we all should know it is an entirely different animal than that of a domestic nature ,the Premier League throws up a hell of a lot more stresses than the International scene ,the Premier League is week in week out and totally different than the convalescing an England manager would be afforded

Thirdly and finally, if Rafa was in charge of England I dare say he would offer a more competent attempt at achieving success than McClaren or Sven ,and in that respect I hold him in the same illustrious company as Capello ,and funnily enough so do all the countless European giants that have tried and failed to procure his signature

You've missed the point too.

Before Capello we had McLaren which both more or less have the same group of players to work with.

Capello has got, will get more out of the same players at his disposal.

NOW,

my point is, people say the next manager won't or can't do better given the same circumstances as Rafa. It's almost a given in most peoples eyes.

My analogy to make it crystal clear is; if Capello can get more out of his players than Mclaren.

Why is it deemed that the next manager to come along at LFC won't get more out of the SAME group of players than Rafa?

It's an absolutely pointless opinion to hold, implying that the next possible manager after Rafa won't/can't do a better job under the same circumstances.

And yes he has been courted with a few teams, Madrid recently cooled their interest though viewing Mourinho as he better of the two. And as for Inter's 'apparent' want of him, it's all media speculation because the media as we all know, hate us and would love to see nothing more than LFC fall from grace

[/quote]
My point being if a manager was brought in to replace Rafa ,given the current precarious financial predicament we find ourselves in how would he deliver anything more than Benitez

especially considering the loyalty Benitez personally has afforded the Club ..

Its actually more "A GIVEN" that he would run tail between legs when given a true assessment of the clubs difficulties and then he would have to learn to deal with daily hostilities he would be forced to endure from owners and media alike (NOW IMAGINE THESE MAGNIFIED ) ..... Liverpool are .....to put it simply hated and a manager would need to be strong enough to overcome these shameful and sometimes personal assaults on his character

I believe Rafa is the only manager who will fight our cause and not let the owners ride rough shod over all and sundry ......
so in that respect its you who have failed spectacularly in grasping the point

by **LFC2007** » Mon May 31, 2010 5:15 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Zidane wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
parchpea wrote:If Inter are serious about Benitez I find it hard to imagine there would be too many problems doing a deal. President Morrati appears to have put the line out hoping for a bite by stating he thinks a deal to lure Benitez would prove difficult but Im not so sure. Considering where Inter stand right now and the state we are in you would have thought Rafa would be more than happy to move on and Liverpool content to try something different and not stand in his way.

Rafa will only ever take another job if he is given the samw power as he has at liverpool.......but there are not manu mugs out their like our owners that would give him that power again

This power stuff is so much imo, what power does he exactly have here? The power of signing the players he wants to sign rather than the players Broughton/Parry/Purslow/Owners want to sign? Most managers have that. The power of what then? The power of his almighty transfer budget? He doesn't have any power here really, the powers he does have are powers that managers SHOULD have. The problem before was they tried to strip that away from him and he had to fight to get it back. I'm getting sick of the he deals with constantly and this summer should really show people how badly things have been, and still are.

er mate..come keep up, look at the power he has in the club, sack anyone he dont get on with, full charge of the youthset up, full charge of buyimg new players.

Exactly, he has the authority to sign players he wants to sign within the confines of a budget, to hire the staff he wants to hire and put in place an effective long-term youth policy. Areas of control most managers should have.

by **Zidane** » Mon May 31, 2010 5:36 pm

On top of what LFC said, he's gotten rid of people who just have not had the club's best interest in mind and he keeps having to put up with those same type of people over and over again. It's :censored:

ridiculous and I for one have had enough of it. Broughton couldn't care less about the club getting back to its very best, Purslow was just here to try to sell to anyone he could and Parry seemed to have his own interest in mind. Rafa isn't perfect and he's made me think twice about still having him as manager, but I respect him and the person he is. I truly believe that he really wants us to be great again, moreso than anyone else at the club.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon May 31, 2010 7:19 pm

Lakes . Mihailjovic has resigned as manager of Catania in preperation to take over the Inter job

by **lakes10** » Mon May 31, 2010 11:05 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Lakes . Mihailjovic has resigned as manager of Catania in preperation to take over the Inter job

I heard he was beeing pushed out of that club as they wished to have Marco Giampaolo as their manager?

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