Liverpool FC Forum

by **ConnO'var** » Sun May 23, 2010 10:01 am

Stay or goes..... I couldn't be @rsed right now..... What worries me is that the uncertainty will delay our plans for next season and we could very well end up in sh!te yet again.

Sort it out you mongrels.... we need stability and certainty to make a fist of it in the coming season.... especially with the emergence of Citeh and Spurs..... we cannot afford to get left behind.

by **mart** » Sun May 23, 2010 10:25 am

leep33 wrote:I still think he will end up at Inter although hopefully this will be sorted soon so we can get on with signing some players.

Mourinho first have to leave Inter, then rafa has to sort out his contract with them, and then we need to find a new manager that will have to sell before he can buy. All this in a world cup year. Signing new players will take time.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun May 23, 2010 10:30 am

7_Kewell wrote:To repeat my point, Rafa has been given over 200 million and a few weeks ago he admitted we are 5-6 players short. It's a joke!

People say he’s recouped a lot of money, but so fecking what! We are not a selling club and never have been. Rafa has NEVER been asked to sell players either. So all he’s done is make a profit on the sh!te he’s brought in. Hardly something to crow about when you look at the list of 100+ players he’s brought in. Over half should never have set foot in Liverpool, let alone played in the great red shirt.

We are a selling club and have been for the last three transfer window's atleast . That is the whole point , he doesn't or any manager will have the money to spend on players . WE HAVE TO SELL TO BUY , even then there are no promises that all the money recouped will go on the transfer budget . So even if Rafa goes , your next man will have the same problems

by **parchpea** » Sun May 23, 2010 10:34 am

We are already left behind infact it happened a while back. There are so many things that could happen, so many possible endings and scenarios it makes you dizzy thinking about it. Going back to the management situation I think we saw yesterday at Wembley what can be achieved against the odds with clever management and a positive approach. There we have a side that was probably the smallest club in the Championship with the smallest budget and yet they won promotion with that manager.Holloway was the key to it all, no excuses football, attacking football where players can express themselves. It goes back to the point that with the right coach you can do well and its not always about budgets. Though the clubs are very different and I am not comparing Holloway with Benitez, but I do feel he could learn something from his approach to football and our team could benefit from some of what hes brought to the table at Blackpool.

by **redmikey** » Sun May 23, 2010 10:35 am

Emerald Red wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
SeaofRed wrote:
ICE-MAN wrote:its just gonna be more of the same next season im afraid!!!

Of course nothing will change, Rafa will be expected to sign everyone who has had a half decent World Cup (nevermind the fact he hasn't got a transfer budget), we'll be expected to challenge and win the Premiership, because every season is "our season" according to fans who forget that Rafa has no transfer budget. We'll be expected to win the League Cup, FA Cup and Europa League because we need some silverware and haven't managed to win a trophy since 2006, lets not forget that Man City haven't won a trophy in over thirty years.

Rafa will try his best to manage the club in the best way he can, but I suspect players like Torres and Gerrard will stand around sulking on the pitch instead of getting to grips with what needs doing. Lucas, Kuyt and Babel will still get slated, even if they put in a 10/10 performance. So, yes, I fully expect next season to be the same as this season, where fans who are frustrated that instant success hasn't been delivered will resort to throwing their toys out of the pram - while begging for Guus Hiddink & Jose Mourinho to come to our club, conveniently forgetting that there is no transfer budget.

Next season will be the same as this season and the same as every season. Wishy, washy fans who will only support the manager through the good times and will turn their backs on him in the bad times. Goodness knows what sort of reception Bill Shankly would be getting from supporters like you, when he went six years without winning the league title.

Good things come to those wait, sure it's been twenty years, but give Rafa the same backing that his rivals have had and I guarantee that dusty trophy cabinet of ours will start filling up pretty sharpish.

lad, you speak as if Rafa joined us 12 months ago. He's been here SIX YEARS AND SPEND 200+ MILLION

After all that rafa says he needs MORE MONEY and MORE PLAYERS...Jesus wept.

He's spent £220 million actually , but recouped £160 million in player sales ,so thats an average of £10 million a year , woar big bucks that innit . Not forgeting the £120 miilion he's made the club in our Chamions league runs in those six years . So your arguement doesn't stack up really does it . Don't believe the hype soft lad .

so what...he's SPENT 220 MILLION and now Rafa says we are STILL 5-6 players short. That isn't hyper, its sh!te!

Robbie Keane, Aqualani...over the last two seaons Rafa's big signings have been fecking disasters.

Well it's obvious he's spent 220 million. What would you have prefered? Sell the players and not bring anyone else back in? Do you even know the state we were in when Houllier left? I doubt half the dissenters even do. The state of our squad back in 2004 was one of the reasons why Gerrard was looking to split back then. By the way, can you tell me the last time Rafa has NOT had to sell to buy? I count no transfer windows.

well said mate........ sick of hearing the same sh!t, people must be blind to the fact of rafa tenure sometimes, who could have done more?

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun May 23, 2010 10:41 am

ICE-MAN wrote:Igor and SeaofRed - Get a grip, you are dillusional!! So Im a wishywashy fan cos I demand that we challenge for cups and the league and I should bide my time!! How much longer should I bide my time, theres not an ounce of improvement! We are way too negative and a horrible team to watch, rafa likes players that are too slow and are just workhorses!!! So Im expected to bide my time until they turn into world beaters who are gonna bring the flair back to anfield!!!

I DO expect us to win the FA Cup (why cant we??), I DO expect us to win the League Cup (again why cant we?), and YES i do expect us to win the europa cup (which will be difficult but why cant we???)!

Im realistic about the league, but i would expect us to at least Challenge for the league, six years with Rafa and we challenged for the league once, and it was a tame enough effort yet it was still great to be involved in a title race!! So bide my time and wait..... Wait for what? ? Get a grip, were not fulham or everton or even city who havent won a trophy in 30 years or whatever u said, we are liverpool football club, the most succesful team in england, DAMN RIGHT we should be winning trophys every season and we should be challenging for the league!! But we are 4 years without a trophy if im not mistaken, and in six have had one decent title challenge but then finish 7th the following season!!!!

Money or not, the manager is to blame for his negative tactics, ridiculous substitutions that have world class players like gerrad and torres scratching their heads (not cos they are sulking!!!), and man management that find none of the players in awe of the manager and wanting to run through walls for him!!!! Rafa has lost the dressing room about 6 months ago, its as clear as day!!!

And by the way, SeaofRed, kuyt Babel and Lucas, can u name 5 10/10 performances from each of those three since they have been at the club, I think not!!!! Clown!!!

Who called you a wishy washy fan , it's you accusing me of being dillusional mate . We don't agree that's all don't get so personal , all i will say is that if you directed your considerable anger towards the owners (which are the main issue here really ) you'd have a better chance of getting what you want .

by **Scottbot** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:03 am

SeaofRed wrote:The transfer market in and around Europe has changed beyond all recognition in the last six years though. In 2004 you could sign someone like Morientes for £6m, Alonso for £10m and Garcia for £6m. Joleon Lescott wouldn't have cost £22m six years ago and Milner wouldn't be leaving Aston Villa for an estimated £20m+.
budget and has to sell-to-buy? Rafa is not a Messiah and unfortunately money doesn't grows on trees.

Don't take it out of context though because it's all relative, at least to some degree. In the same time TV revenue has increased considerably (I believe), tickets to Anfield go up every (or ever other), and our latest sponsorship deal is the most lucrative in British football.

by **tubby** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:05 am

7_Kewell wrote:To repeat my point, Rafa has been given over 200 million and a few weeks ago he admitted we are 5-6 players short. It's a joke!

People say he’s recouped a lot of money, but so fecking what! We are not a selling club and never have been. Rafa has NEVER been asked to sell players either. So all he’s done is make a profit on the sh!te he’s brought in. Hardly something to crow about when you look at the list of 100+ players he’s brought in. Over half should never have set foot in Liverpool, let alone played in the great red shirt.

Was he given this 200Mil in 1 go? No he spent it over the duration of his stay here with a net spend of around 25-30Mil a season which paints a very different picture. It's different from say Mourinho at Chelsea who spent like 150Mil in the space of 2 seasons.

Are you going to sit there and say we don't need 5 or 6 quality players? FFS If you are forced to shop in bargain basement for so long it is going to mount up. Just because the overall sum is 200mil doesn't make it any more true that he has wasted so much money. Maybe if he was given big money in the first place to go out and buy his 1st choice players like Simao, Alves, Vidic and Silva then we wouldn't be in this mess.

Look at the bigger picture mate instead of throwing your rattle out at the first sign of a big figure. Football is big money these days so :censored:

what of course a club like is us going to have spent a few hundred mil over 5 years.

To be honest all things considered it's a miracle we have done so well with the money we had had. Makes finishing 2nd a few seasons ago all the more impressive.

by **Scottbot** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:11 am

ConnO'var wrote:Stay or goes..... I couldn't be @rsed right now..... What worries me is that the uncertainty will delay our plans for next season and we could very well end up in sh!te yet again.

Sort it out you mongrels.... we need stability and certainty to make a fist of it in the coming season.... especially with the emergence of Citeh and Spurs..... we cannot afford to get left behind.

I'm pretty much of the same mind mate but I can't see it happening. I strongly suspect our summer will go like this:

- The owners will not be able to sell the club at the price they are asking. They will dig their heels still believing they can turn a £300 million profit. Kun.....t.....s.

- The speculation on Gerrard and Torres will grow and grow dugin the World Cup.

- Both players will wait to see if the club will have some money to spend this summer. They will both be disapointed.

- Third time lucky for Mourinho as Gerrard leaves for Real Madrid.

- Disillusioned Torres will follow suit.

- We're completely fu....c....k....e.....d

I've got absolutely no hope

Sorry.

by **tubby** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:15 am

Scottbot wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Stay or goes..... I couldn't be @rsed right now..... What worries me is that the uncertainty will delay our plans for next season and we could very well end up in sh!te yet again.

Sort it out you mongrels.... we need stability and certainty to make a fist of it in the coming season.... especially with the emergence of Citeh and Spurs..... we cannot afford to get left behind.

I'm pretty much of the same mind mate but I can't see it happening. I strongly suspect our summer will go like this:

- The owners will not be able to sell the club at the price they are asking. They will dig their heels still believing they can turn a £300 million profit. Kun.....t.....s.

- The speculation on Gerrard and Torres will grow and grow dugin the World Cup.

- Both players will wait to see if the club will have some money to spend this summer. They will both be disapointed.

- Third time lucky for Mourinho as Gerrard leaves for Real Madrid.

- Disillusioned Torres will follow suit.

- We're completely fu....c....k....e.....d

I've got absolutely no hope

Sorry.

Probably spot on tbh mate. Without the finance there is no stability so without us being able to bring in top players we can never expect to move forward. Stevie has given a lot of years to this club so I wouldn't expect him to stick around.

It will be a crying shame if they both do go but we will just have to re build without them.

I wonder if the loss of those 2 would bring the price of the club down a notch too. No longer a top 4 team and without 2 of the best players in Europe... Can't really see Hicks still wanting 800Mil.

by **dawson99** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:15 am

when people moan about Rafa, they arent just talking about money. Look at our squad, he just aint getting the best out of whats available. And what little money we did have was spent badly, and Rafa doesnt get on with some players you can just tell.

But...

with the right money, and if he changes his attitude to admit his mistakes, he could lead us to glory

by **tubby** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:17 am

dawson99 wrote:when people moan about Rafa, they arent just talking about money. Look at our squad, he just aint getting the best out of whats available. And what little money we did have was spent badly, and Rafa doesnt get on with some players you can just tell.

But...

with the right money, and if he changes his attitude to admit his mistakes, he could lead us to glory

It's a big if mate. Last season we were not even allowed to spend what we made from player sales and this was before these figures came out the other week so god knows what Rafa will have available for next season.

by **dawson99** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:30 am

big if if he changes his attitude?

by **JC_81** » Sun May 23, 2010 11:46 am

Scottbot wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Stay or goes..... I couldn't be @rsed right now..... What worries me is that the uncertainty will delay our plans for next season and we could very well end up in sh!te yet again.

Sort it out you mongrels.... we need stability and certainty to make a fist of it in the coming season.... especially with the emergence of Citeh and Spurs..... we cannot afford to get left behind.

I'm pretty much of the same mind mate but I can't see it happening. I strongly suspect our summer will go like this:

- The owners will not be able to sell the club at the price they are asking. They will dig their heels still believing they can turn a £300 million profit. Kun.....t.....s.

- The speculation on Gerrard and Torres will grow and grow dugin the World Cup.

- Both players will wait to see if the club will have some money to spend this summer. They will both be disapointed.

- Third time lucky for Mourinho as Gerrard leaves for Real Madrid.

- Disillusioned Torres will follow suit.

- We're completely fu....c....k....e.....d

I've got absolutely no hope

Sorry.

I don't think it'll pan out like this mate, I honestly don't.

In terms of what happens with the owners and new investment I am not getting my hopes up. I agree with you on that - they will want too much money for the club and we are probably a long way off getting rid of them.

In terms of players I can't see Gerrard leaving now. He's been through all this before and for all his sulking this season I honestly think any serious temptation Gerrard had to leave passed a couple of seasons ago. I hope for his sake he has a good world cup, forgets about LFC's poor season and comes back with his head cleared and a better player than he was last season (which was his poorest in a Liverpool shirt).

Torres is different. His talent is undoubted and commitment on the pitch unquestioned, but his petulance as the season wore on blatantly shows all is not well. But he's probably been frustrated more by injuries than by how poor the team has been. I think he'll give us one more season to see what direction the club is going in before he considers downing tools and wanting back to Spain. To be honest the time might be right to sell him by then, this guy only has a couple of years left at his peak before all these injuries start to rob him of his sharpness and acceleration.

Reina has committed himself, Carra's not going anywhere and as for the rest of them, they're all replaceable as far as I'm concerned, even Mascherano although I love the way he plays.

by **7_Kewell** » Sun May 23, 2010 12:55 pm

sorry guys, i don't see Rafa as the victim here.

Ok, money is short, so that makes the fact he's wasted millions on keane and Aqua all the the more depressing. This is money we dont have and Rafa has pi$$ed away what presious cash we have on players he doesn't want. Not to mention the fact he touted Alonso around Europe becuase he thought Barry would be a better.... :no

And what about the rest of the premier league? I keep hearing the "poor Rafa, he's got no cash"...but this season we only just managed to finished about EVERTON!! For fecks sake, how much have they spent over the last few seasons?

The bottom line is our current squad has been put together by Rafa, it is HIS TEAM filled with the players HE WANTED TO BUY. yes, money is tight, but that's the case for most of the premier league and, while we need new ownership, I see Rafa as much to blame as our problems on the pitch as our directors off it.

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