Stoke City vs LIVERPOOL - Sunday 12 Jan 2014 - 16.10ko

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Postby Homebooby » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:12 pm

redno7 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:43 pm wrote:would you buy a new defender this month?


Personally I am of the opinion that these units are so finely tuned nowadays that you only need one thing to be a little off and it throws everything to pot. I think we're struggling with EXACTLY the same problem as we were at the beginning of last season and that was righted by bringing Carra back into the team. I don't think we've righted the balance since he dropped out. Who's to blame, or where would I put my money, I dunno. Personally I think that Toure should be able to do a job, but doesn't have the right support around him and I'm not convinced that Skrtel is having the blinder everyone sees him having. He's doing well in the chaos, but is he really able to survive in a proper organised back 4? That's what he accused of not being able to do and why he was on his way out the door. I think that Johnson is impacted hugely by this too.

So to answer your question, I think we need to plug the holes in the back to stand any chance of hitting a top 4 place as we'll probably ride our luck too many times in the minileague that's running just below us. Everton are a major concern for me as they have a pretty tight defense relative to those all around. I doubt we'll get a great long term value buy here, but we need someone who can come and bring an additional element of order into the group. As much as it doesn't seem fair, I think it comes from the centre 2 and I'd sooner see Toure paired with someone trustworthy while Agger is out and Skrtel benched.

Either that or put Stevie in the back 4 and spUnk some decent cash on a new midfield center pairing....I am not convinced about this holding position function. Seems like we're making a position for him rather than doing what is right and on top of that subliminally admitting that the back 4 is a shambles at the moment.
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Postby Homebooby » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:15 pm

Nothing much to add to the views put forward by everyone on here, except for something that hasn't gotten enough coverage, namely the improvement in Sterling the past few weeks. He seems to be a lot more physical than he was even a month or 2 back and not afraid to put himself about. He was a right little annoying basrad yesterday and caused them no end of trouble. He could do with a little more composure and quality on the ball now, but a marked improvement. Says it all that Coutinho was taken off in favour of him...
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Postby woof woof ! » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:56 pm

Homebooby » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:15 pm wrote:Nothing much to add to the views put forward by everyone on here, except for something that hasn't gotten enough coverage, namely the improvement in Sterling the past few weeks. He seems to be a lot more physical than he was even a month or 2 back and not afraid to put himself about. He was a right little annoying basrad yesterday and caused them no end of trouble. He could do with a little more composure and quality on the ball now, but a marked improvement. Says it all that Coutinho was taken off in favour of him...



" He seems to be a lot more physical than he was even a month or 2 back and not afraid to put himself about"

Was thinking exactley that when watching the game yesterday, reckon it's evidence of the start of his transition from teenager to young man. He was excellent again yesterday.

On the earlier question of "would you buy a defender this month" even though we've got four recognised CB's vying for just two central positions I'd say a definite yes but it would have to be an experienced CB and not one "for the future" as we've already got the likes of Kelly, Ilori, the injured Coates and away on loan Wisdom all currently wearing that tag.

Given Johnson's alarming decline in form and application the right back position is a serious problem, although Flanno when fit can perform there but he's still a long way from being the finished article.

After investing in a CB and a RB I'd be looking for an IMPOSING/INTIMIDATING midfielder as physically speaking none of our midfield look capable of holding their own in a "fight", which is why we've sometimes come up short against lesser but more physical teams.
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Postby only me » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:15 pm

woof woof ! » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:56 pm wrote:
Homebooby » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:15 pm wrote:Nothing much to add to the views put forward by everyone on here, except for something that hasn't gotten enough coverage, namely the improvement in Sterling the past few weeks. He seems to be a lot more physical than he was even a month or 2 back and not afraid to put himself about. He was a right little annoying basrad yesterday and caused them no end of trouble. He could do with a little more composure and quality on the ball now, but a marked improvement. Says it all that Coutinho was taken off in favour of him...



" He seems to be a lot more physical than he was even a month or 2 back and not afraid to put himself about"

Was thinking exactley that when watching the game yesterday, reckon it's evidence of the start of his transition from teenager to young man. He was excellent again yesterday.

On the earlier question of "would you buy a defender this month" even though we've got four recognised CB's vying for just two central positions I'd say a definite yes but it would have to be an experienced CB and not one "for the future" as we've already got the likes of Kelly, Ilori, the injured Coates and away on loan Wisdom all currently wearing that tag.

Given Johnson's alarming decline in form and application the right back position is a serious problem, although Flanno when fit can perform there but he's still a long way from being the finished article.

After investing in a CB and a RB I'd be looking for an IMPOSING/INTIMIDATING midfielder as physically speaking none of our midfield look capable of holding their own in a "fight", which is why we've sometimes come up short against lesser but more physical teams.


Really a CB? the most populated position in the squad? I would say the most pressing issue is another Holding MF which can support attack and a Defensive MF which can support our CB's. Next in line would be Fullbacks.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:41 pm

only me » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:15 pm wrote:
woof woof ! » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:56 pm wrote:
Homebooby » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:15 pm wrote:Nothing much to add to the views put forward by everyone on here, except for something that hasn't gotten enough coverage, namely the improvement in Sterling the past few weeks. He seems to be a lot more physical than he was even a month or 2 back and not afraid to put himself about. He was a right little annoying basrad yesterday and caused them no end of trouble. He could do with a little more composure and quality on the ball now, but a marked improvement. Says it all that Coutinho was taken off in favour of him...



" He seems to be a lot more physical than he was even a month or 2 back and not afraid to put himself about"

Was thinking exactley that when watching the game yesterday, reckon it's evidence of the start of his transition from teenager to young man. He was excellent again yesterday.

On the earlier question of "would you buy a defender this month" even though we've got four recognised CB's vying for just two central positions I'd say a definite yes but it would have to be an experienced CB and not one "for the future" as we've already got the likes of Kelly, Ilori, the injured Coates and away on loan Wisdom all currently wearing that tag.

Given Johnson's alarming decline in form and application the right back position is a serious problem, although Flanno when fit can perform there but he's still a long way from being the finished article.

After investing in a CB and a RB I'd be looking for an IMPOSING/INTIMIDATING midfielder as physically speaking none of our midfield look capable of holding their own in a "fight", which is why we've sometimes come up short against lesser but more physical teams.


Really a CB? the most populated position in the squad? I would say the most pressing issue is another Holding MF which can support attack and a Defensive MF which can support our CB's. Next in line would be Fullbacks.

Agger injured at least once every couple of months. Toure and Sakho have had hamstring injuries this season.

We may look like we have cover but we're vulnerable.

That said I think we'd be better investing in cover for fullbacks.
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Postby woof woof ! » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:12 am

only me » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:15 pm wrote:Really a CB? the most populated position in the squad?


Yeah, REALLY .Try looking beyond the numbers, e.g actual quality.

I would say the most pressing issue is another Holding MF which can support attack and a Defensive MF which can support our CB's


You contest the signing of another CB as the role is over populated BUT advocate we buy TWO more midfielders, a Holding Midfielder to support the attack and Defensive Midfielder to support the CB's  :laugh:   :laugh:   :laugh:

why not just sign ONE top shelf Box to Box midfielder ?   :p
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:10 am

One thing I am concerned with is the type of injuries we are experiencing. Gerrard, Flanagan, Toure and Sahko all have had hamstring injuries this season. It's an unusually high number and oddly affecting players you would not normally associate with hamstring injuries.

Even though Gerrard and Toure are more mature players who might risk more wear and tear injuries, I am still surprised that a hamstring injury is the one that hit. Gerrard and Toure are hardly galloping players these days. Flanagan is a young developing player and it isn't unusual to get hamstring injuries at that age, I remember Kelly getting hamstring injuries a couple of seasons back.

I am wondering whether the conditioning coach is not focussing on hamstring stretching enough or that some players are not following guidance on hamstring stretching well enough? Whatever is the cause, I woudl be amazed if Rodgers is not questioning the quantity of hamstring injuries the squad is suffering from.
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Postby only me » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:29 pm

woof woof ! » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:12 am wrote:
only me » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:15 pm wrote:Really a CB? the most populated position in the squad?


Yeah, REALLY .Try looking beyond the numbers, e.g actual quality.

I would say the most pressing issue is another Holding MF which can support attack and a Defensive MF which can support our CB's


You contest the signing of another CB as the role is over populated BUT advocate we buy TWO more midfielders, a Holding Midfielder to support the attack and Defensive Midfielder to support the CB's  :laugh:   :laugh:   :laugh:

why not just sign ONE top shelf Box to Box midfielder ?   :p


I think between the FOUR CB's we got we can manage to find the right fit going forward ,Sakho and Agger should be good enough Pair.
I Agree that our MF is over populated but let me use your argument ,try looking beyond the numbers...I think Lucas is not a good enough Pressing/stopping MF and i think that other then Coutinho we don't have a real playmaker supporting Attack. If you can find that Box to Box MF which does both ,i'm with you sign ONE. BTW if you get this GOOD/GREAT MF you also remove pressure from the CB's.
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Postby only me » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:32 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:10 am wrote:One thing I am concerned with is the type of injuries we are experiencing. Gerrard, Flanagan, Toure and Sahko all have had hamstring injuries this season. It's an unusually high number and oddly affecting players you would not normally associate with hamstring injuries.

Even though Gerrard and Toure are more mature players who might risk more wear and tear injuries, I am still surprised that a hamstring injury is the one that hit. Gerrard and Toure are hardly galloping players these days. Flanagan is a young developing player and it isn't unusual to get hamstring injuries at that age, I remember Kelly getting hamstring injuries a couple of seasons back.

I am wondering whether the conditioning coach is not focussing on hamstring stretching enough or that some players are not following guidance on hamstring stretching well enough? Whatever is the cause, I woudl be amazed if Rodgers is not questioning the quantity of hamstring injuries the squad is suffering from.


Interesting ,although you can attribute 2 of those to age, Sakho if i remember correctly got his injury on the dying minutes of the match were we were spread and pressed and reduced to 10 man (could have been a bit too much)...Flanno can't remember when he got his..Anyway if it happens well within the game it can't be due to poor stretching.
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Postby LFC1990 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:56 pm

Hamstring injuries are rarely to do with stretching.

Football players the main muscle they use will be the hamstrings and therefore will be the most common injury among players.

The reason players get injuries to the hamstrings in the stop start running that goes with football imagine it as a petrol tank in a  car if you go on a long run it will last longer than alot of short runs at the same distance.
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Postby woof woof ! » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:00 pm

only me » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:29 pm wrote:I think between the FOUR CB's we got we can manage to find the right fit going forward ,Sakho and Agger should be good enough Pair.
I Agree that our MF is over populated but let me use your argument ,try looking beyond the numbers...I think Lucas is not a good enough Pressing/stopping MF and i think that other then Coutinho we don't have a real playmaker supporting Attack. If you can find that Box to Box MF which does both ,i'm with you sign ONE. BTW if you get this GOOD/GREAT MF you also remove pressure from the CB's.


I still think we need more quality at CB. Toure looked a great replacement when he first came in but will/can he sustain it ?, Skrtle has generally done well but we're all aware of the mistakes he's made and fear there'll be more, and Agger as good as he is, seems to be in and out of the side for one reason or another (or is that just my imagination ?).

I think Lucas is better than many of us give him credit for. Although in the past I've been one of his harshest critics and agree we could do better I'm no longer clamouring for his departure. With Gerrard now apparently being asked to play a much deeper position it'll be interesting to see how this impacts on Lucas' role. He appeared to try and get forward a few times against Stoke and I recall when we signed him looking at early video clips of him at Gremio where he surged forward time and time again, so much so that I was surprised to see him being employed in a far more defensive role after he joined us.

Quality CB, Quality CM and a Quality RB is what I'm hoping we bring in and the rest will take care of itself   :)
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:40 pm

@LFC1990 and Only Me

You couldn't be more wrong saying that Hamstring injuries are not related to poor stretching. I myself have had many muscle strains, many of which have come from poor stretching. Early on I used to get injured a lot, primarily due to poor discipline for stretching pre and post match.

Muscle strains (of which a pulled hamstring is) are a result of extending a muscle beyond it limit, resulting in a strain. In some cases the strain becomes a tear/rupture. Stretching reduces this risk. Basic stuff guys.

Physioroom.com - http://www.physioroom.com/injuries/hip_ ... n_full.php

Warm up prior to matches and training is thought to decrease muscle stretch injuries because the muscle is more extensible when the tissue temperature has been increased by one or two degrees


Tight muscles are associated with strains.


Now I am not suggested that it 100% must be this, but there has to be some common factor for us to be hit with so many hamstring injuries in a few weeks. Hopefully just a coincidence.
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Postby LFC1990 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:45 pm

I think you must have misunderstood what i was saying.

Firstly i say rarely and secondly i was making the point in a football players injuries meaning football players hamstrings are stretched very very thoroughly in warm ups and that there injuries have nothing to do with stretching as they have stretched.

I am a personal trainer and physiotherpaist by the way
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Postby only me » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:20 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:40 pm wrote:@LFC1990 and Only Me

You couldn't be more wrong saying that Hamstring injuries are not related to poor stretching. I myself have had many muscle strains, many of which have come from poor stretching. Early on I used to get injured a lot, primarily due to poor discipline for stretching pre and post match.

Muscle strains (of which a pulled hamstring is) are a result of extending a muscle beyond it limit, resulting in a strain. In some cases the strain becomes a tear/rupture. Stretching reduces this risk. Basic stuff guys.

Physioroom.com - http://www.physioroom.com/injuries/hip_ ... n_full.php

Warm up prior to matches and training is thought to decrease muscle stretch injuries because the muscle is more extensible when the tissue temperature has been increased by one or two degrees


Tight muscles are associated with strains.


Now I am not suggested that it 100% must be this, but there has to be some common factor for us to be hit with so many hamstring injuries in a few weeks. Hopefully just a coincidence.


You got me wrong ,i didn't say stretching or warm-up aren't essential prior to games ,merely stated that Sakho suffered his at the END of the game so can't be pre-game related.
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