Liverpool FC Forum

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:54 pm

I actually thought City’s pen was a pen, if that was the other way around I’d deffo be screaming for a pen because although Joe didn’t mean it there was quite a bit of distance between him and De Bruyne.
Although I wouldn’t put it in such stark terms as Tommy Smith I do think Jurgen may have let his loyalty to Bobby cloud his judgement a bit re the line up, don’t get me wrong before the kick off I liked the fact he was prepared to take it to City on their own ground but with the benefit of hindsight Bobby’s recent performances just didn’t justify a place in the team. Jota was the man in form he should have started up top, the formation indirectly led to their goal as well when Gini found himself needing to be in 2 places at once, 4-2-4 asked a lot of our 2 central MF’s certainly against a team as good as City.
When all is said and done formation or no formation over the 90 minutes we more than held our own and it’s a better result for us than it is them.

by **Reg** » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:09 pm

Yakka, as all my mates are asking, what is Joe supposed to do with his arm, he can't rip it off so the ball doesn't touch it, the law has become too perfect... there's no margin of error. Remember the speed of the game, the speed of the cross etc.. it's unrealistic that a player can get out of the way even half the times so you go back to the old time tested question, was it deliberate and to what extent did it influence the outcome of the move. Perfection does not exist.

by **supersub** » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:00 pm

its not handball...the game has become a joke.....the interpretation of handball and offside has become absolutely ridiculous and VAR and the corrupt officials who operate it are complicit in the destruction of the beautiful game. I have been watching Liverpool for over 50 years, 40 years as a season ticket holder and I have never been so out of love with the game as I am now....it's not just about decisions against Liverpool but the decisions like the Leeds offside.....every week there are numerous game changing decisions that are completely and utterly wrong and yet nobody gives a damn because tribal instincts mean 19 teams supporters mock the offended party. Every football fan across the land should be up in arms protesting , the media should be demanding a change to the way the idiots define what is offside and what is handball.....I'm sick of discussing pre match pros and cons only to be rewarded by post match moaning about VAR and the inadequate knowledge of the rules of the game by the over paid officials .......FIFA, UEFA and the premier league can all just f*** off

by **devaney** » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:56 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:54 pm wrote:I actually thought City’s pen was a pen, if that was the other way around I’d deffo be screaming for a pen because although Joe didn’t mean it there was quite a bit of distance between him and De Bruyne.
Although I wouldn’t put it in such stark terms as Tommy Smith I do think Jurgen may have let his loyalty to Bobby cloud his judgement a bit re the line up, don’t get me wrong before the kick off I liked the fact he was prepared to take it to City on their own ground but with the benefit of hindsight Bobby’s recent performances just didn’t justify a place in the team. Jota was the man in form he should have started up top, the formation indirectly led to their goal as well when Gini found himself needing to be in 2 places at once, 4-2-4 asked a lot of our 2 central MF’s certainly against a team as good as City.
When all is said and done formation or no formation over the 90 minutes we more than held our own and it’s a better result for us than it is them.

So where is the common sense Yakka. Handball should not be a ball fired at a player so rapidly that he can’t get out of the way. It should be all about absolute intent and trying to disadvantage the opposition. Based on the current nonsense I to would have screamed for a penalty if the same thing happened to us. That however does not make it right. The rules are ridiculous and should be changed. They have already revised the handball rule after the season started because they realised that it was idiotic. Unfortunately the changes haven’t gone far enough.

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:42 am

devaney » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:56 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:54 pm wrote:I actually thought City’s pen was a pen, if that was the other way around I’d deffo be screaming for a pen because although Joe didn’t mean it there was quite a bit of distance between him and De Bruyne.
Although I wouldn’t put it in such stark terms as Tommy Smith I do think Jurgen may have let his loyalty to Bobby cloud his judgement a bit re the line up, don’t get me wrong before the kick off I liked the fact he was prepared to take it to City on their own ground but with the benefit of hindsight Bobby’s recent performances just didn’t justify a place in the team. Jota was the man in form he should have started up top, the formation indirectly led to their goal as well when Gini found himself needing to be in 2 places at once, 4-2-4 asked a lot of our 2 central MF’s certainly against a team as good as City.
When all is said and done formation or no formation over the 90 minutes we more than held our own and it’s a better result for us than it is them.

So where is the common sense Yakka. Handball should not be a ball fired at a player so rapidly that he can’t get out of the way. It should be all about absolute intent and trying to disadvantage the opposition. Based on the current nonsense I to would have screamed for a penalty if the same thing happened to us. That however does not make it right. The rules are ridiculous and should be changed. They have already revised the handball rule after the season started because they realised that it was idiotic. Unfortunately the changes haven’t gone far enough.

As I said mate there was quite a bit of distance between Joe and De Bruyne, plenty of players in that situation would have got their arms out of the way, it was clumsy from Joe.

by **supersub** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:16 am

Bol***ks......you have fallen for the VAR slow motion trick ....

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:14 pm

He's in a running motion. There is no way he's getting his arms out of the way. The ball hits him towards the top of his motion. Unfortunately under the current handball rules there is debate about if it's a penalty but I struggle to understand how anyone who has run in their life can say that his position is "unnatural". The handball rule has become a mess with the changes in the last couple of years. UEFA have asked FIFA to review so hopefully we won't have to put up with this for too much longer.

by **Reg** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:30 pm

It's all a load of sh!te.

by **supersub** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:29 pm

Unfortunately the ball bags who create these rule changes and demand we adhere to them , have never played football in their petty little sh*tty lives....

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:43 pm

It’s a pen all day long, Gomez was about 10 yards away from De Bruyne, as I said if the positions were reversed and we didn’t get that I’d be effin livid.

by **supersub** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:15 am

And there lies the problem....fifa rule 12; Handball.......free kick or penalty if the player DELIBERATELY handles the ball(exception goalkeeper in box)....so you believe Gomez deliberately turned away from the cross but cleverly left his hand at the end of his arm to make sure the ball never reached their attacker....FFS officials can't interpret the rule correctly and FIFA couldn't give a f**k. So we end up with this sh***y mess that supporters aere swallowing and players are complicit if it benefits themselves.If the players ,managers and supporters and the media, united as one to condemn all the ***** decisions, then we may end up with officials that will start to understand that players arms and hands are attached to their body and on most handball occasions they are not deliberately trying to stop the ball with said arms and hands....

by **Reg** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:46 am

We have the perfect storm, a rule that doesn't work and a VAR system that is being applied naively in failing to apply the intention of the rule or the intention of the defender.

In law there is an onus on the 'intention' of the parties and lawyers and judges use that to over turn a natural decision into one that reflects what actually happened basis the (in this case) player's intention.

So was Joe trying to obstruct the path of the ball, no. No penalty. Same with Mane's shocking offside decision against Everton or Bamford of Leeds pointing where he wanted the ball played.

So first we have to fix both the interpretation of the handball and offside rules and then we have to teach the VAR officials to act more intelligently when interpreting what they see on the replays.

It's not difficult, but first and foremost you need common sense.

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:14 pm

supersub » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:15 am wrote:And there lies the problem....fifa rule 12; Handball.......free kick or penalty if the player DELIBERATELY handles the ball(exception goalkeeper in box)....so you believe Gomez deliberately turned away from the cross but cleverly left his hand at the end of his arm to make sure the ball never reached their attacker....FFS officials can't interpret the rule correctly and FIFA couldn't give a f**k. So we end up with this sh***y mess that supporters aere swallowing and players are complicit if it benefits themselves.If the players ,managers and supporters and the media, united as one to condemn all the ***** decisions, then we may end up with officials that will start to understand that players arms and hands are attached to their body and on most handball occasions they are not deliberately trying to stop the ball with said arms and hands....

That deliberate handball rule is on the books but refs have never applied it to the letter of the law, if they did you’d barely get any pens given for handball, very, very few of them are deliberate, the vast majority are accidental or clumsy rather than deliberate.
As I said wether it be in the 1970’s or 2020’s if the roles were reversed and we didn’t get that pen I’d be spitting feathers, it wasn’t one of those were the players were on top of one other, there was a fair bit of distance between Joe and De Bruyne.

by **red till i die!!** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:38 am

That's never a handball for me and it's a ridiculous rule change. We are lucky De Bruyne missed but Wolves weren't so fortunate in their game. This shouldn't be happening. Those muppets running the VAR should be able to tell the difference because everyone else outside of that truck could.

How long before we see a game where the score ends up being 2.1 or 3.2 and all goals came from the penalty spot. Wouldnt that be just awesome!! My team beat your team by 3 penalty kicks to your teams 2.

It should be scrapped along with VAR because it's not improving the game.

by **Reg** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:04 am

Sadly when you look at Greg Clarke this week you realise the quality of people involved in football from top to bottom is way below par. The administrators, officials, player's agents... corrupt, incompetent and all drawn to the honey pot of big bucks.

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