Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:20 pm

J*o*n*D*o*e wrote:im not going to sit here and say that one decision cost us the win because it didnt.

I agree mate, one decision didn't cost us the win and neither did one draw cost us our season, I blame the 15 or so defeats we have already had this season for that. But its decisions like that one that HAVE added to our problems this season.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:15 pm

Nobody can argue that the situations Ngog found himself in would have been exactly the same if Torres had stayed on, but ffs, with Torres' quality, and with the play stretching and with a bit of urgency finally beginning to creep into our game, he would have found himself in similarly good positions with similarly good chances to win the game and he would have been much more likely to put one of them away. I'm probably crazy for thinking that we might have done better by subbing somebody other than our world class striker.

That decision didn't necessarily 'cost us' the game, but it surely made it decidedly more likely that we wouldn't win it.

Otherwise, our underlying deficiencies persisted in a game that we really needed to win. We had nothing to lose by going for it, and Birmingham had little to gain because of their league position. Why then weren't we pressing high up with intensity from the off? Why didn't Gerrard support the play more often, and why didn't our fullbacks push on until late on? Why couldn't we have taken Lucas - who was pitiful - off earlier, and sent Aquilani on? Our whole approach to the game wasn't bold enough.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:24 pm

You know, I've read a couple of suggestions that the sub made sense because Torres wasn't at the races yesterday. Yet, how many times have we seen him have a tough game and then pop up with a little bit of magic when it looked least likely for us? Hell, his first goal against Sunderland last weekend should serve as the only reminder anybody needs why the lad needs to be on the pitch when we're looking to get a result. Barring injury--which in this instance has been ruled out--subbing him is just madness and Rafa deserves massive stick for doing it.

by **TheLad** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:01 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:Ben Patrick - the video of their reactions are here

170,000 views in 24 hours. Not bad.

by **stmichael** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:59 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:oh dear....you really have it for Gerrard don't you?

oh ffs not another clueless whopper. yeah that's right i hate the guy.

listen, the guy is a liverpool legend and the best player i've ever seen wearing the red shirt. however that doesn't excuse his distinct lack of leadership this season and the fact that he's blamed everything and everyone else but himself for his own poor form.

this season the club is under intense scrutiny. he should have hid his disappointment, respected the MANAGER'S decision and spoke to him afterwards about it.

it seems people get very protective when talking about the captain just because he's steven gerrard. what he has done in the past is irrelevant for me in what has been a poor season collectively. i still thought he was one of our best players yesterady (especially in the second half) but as a captain and a leader this season he's been poor end of.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:12 pm

stmichael wrote:he should have hid his disappointment, respected the MANAGER'S decision and spoke to him afterwards about it.

Sorry, mate, but--like a few others--I have to disagree with this. I think we're expecting the superhuman of Stevie if we expect him to never raise an eyebrow or look nonplussed at a decision is ridiculous as that yesterday. Anyway, it's not as though he actually kicked up a fuss or drew attention to himself. He cast a quizzical, disappointed look toward the touchline and then turned away to get on with things. And get on with things he did, setting up several chances for Ngog to fluff. No, I think that criticizing Gerrard for a genuine and understandable look of bemusement is putting the blame squarely in the wrong direction on this occasion.

by **zarababe** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:28 pm

for all my support of Rafa.. I have to say .. oh fu'ckin hell what the fu'ck was that substitution all about :angry:

I waited in case of injury... but, now.. I can not agree with the subbing of Torres...

But I still think we'll make 4th !

by **Reg** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:33 pm

zarababe wrote:for all my support of Rafa.. I have to say .. oh fu'ckin hell what the fu'ck was that substitution all about I waited in case of injury... but, now.. I can not agree with the subbing of Torres...

But I still think we'll make 4th !

Even my support is waivering here....... our season has lost all logic to it.

by **tonyeh** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:33 pm

s@int wrote:I think the manager has somehow brainwashed a few people on here to such an extent that they seem to believe we are only allowed to sub like for like. We are allowed to take off a defender or a midfield player and bring on another striker you know! I know its a rare occurrence with Liverpool these days, but it is still within the rules of the game. If Rafa thought the side needed freshning up. why not take one of Lucas/Insua/Kuyt etc off and bring N'gog on. Maybe we might find with TWO strikers on the pitch that goals are easier to come by? Maybe N'gog could have done a little of Torres running for him, leaving Torres to do what he does better than most.....sticking the ball in the net.

You know what Batman?

It's a crazy plan, but it might just work!

by **sgs** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:02 pm

Nobody can argue that the situations Ngog found himself in would have been exactly the same if Torres had stayed on

with Torres' quality, and with the play stretching and with a bit of urgency finally beginning to creep into our game, he would have found himself in similarly good positions with similarly good chances to win the game

Talk about speaking from both sides of the mouth!

by **LFC2007** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:21 pm

sgs wrote:Nobody can argue that the situations Ngog found himself in would have been exactly the same if Torres had stayed on

with Torres' quality, and with the play stretching and with a bit of urgency finally beginning to creep into our game, he would have found himself in similarly good positions with similarly good chances to win the game

Talk about speaking from both sides of the mouth!

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:42 pm

I have to admit I found the decision to leave Agger and Mascherano on the bench slightly perplexing, but in all honesty none of the top teams have managed to walk away with three points from St Andrews so I would have expected a tight cagey game and in that respect it didn't disappoint ,especially given the format of Birmingham's rigid style of play ,Alex McLeish has them well drilled in that respect ,but the fuss being made about Torres substitution I find a bit confusing ...... firstly let me explain Torres was indeed being utilised as our only viable option upfront that much is beyond reproach ,but the fact is that in order to play that role successfully the striker needs to hold the ball up long enough in order for a player to become available ,that being the case Torres was poor at this particular role on Sunday, his play was laboured and he squandered possession to easily which all too readily handed the initiative back to Birmingham ,but his subsequent withdrawal given the fact we haven't a competent replacement is magnified by his obvious importance to the team and his God given ability to find the net ,as I said sometimes if this cautious formation with a lone Striker is to be played in a tight Away game ,then Torres might be better used as an impact sub and starting with someone who makes better use of the ball (in a distributing sense ) perhaps this is where a tricky player like Pacheco who although not blessed with searing pace as in the case of Torres has a brilliant football brain and will retain possession

I am not diminishing in any respect Torres ability to find the net ,in that respect he is clearly the worlds best but when he is struggling in a match to such an extent ,surely people can see this and I am as equally as sure that opposition managers can subdue this threat given its predictability ,and before posters say I am advocating that the manager is blameless in this equation ,then let me say that Sunday Agger's inclusion would have won us this game as would the steel Mascherano would have provided in Midfield and that decision has mystified me totally and the blame for that lies squarely at the managers feet ,but the Torres substitution.......... he simply wasn't playing well and we needed a different approach

I will end with the following disclaimer I consider Torres to be one of the finest strikers in Today's modern game , and I absolutely love the lad for his honesty and his loyalty, but when you are the predominant focal point of the team you have to provide better when the opportunity arises ,also I would like to add I blame Benitez for the formation he played and the players he omitted (Agger Mascherano )that said I think people are using the Torres withdrawal as a convenient stick to beat the manager instead of getting behind the team (But I guess its easier when you have a dog to kick ) ,that's just my honest opinion which I have always tried to deliver ,and these are just honest assessments I have gleamed from the Lads who were at St Andrews I think they call them Fans ,then again I suppose some on here will refute that and call their opinions clueless such is their want ,the support is divided for the manager ,but it is still there if he warrants it ,yesterday he was his own worst enemy and a couple of the Lads are starting to turn although albeit only a couple....

Liverpool FC Forum

BIRMINGHAM CITY VS LIVERPOOL - Sun 4 april - ko: 15.00

Who is online