Man City V Liverpool  Sat 1st April KO@12.30

Liverpool Football Club - Games

Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:16 pm

We need new owners, Klopp has conjured up nothing short of a footballing miracle over the past 7 years but with the likes of Newcastle joining the financially doped brigade and United probably about to join them it's going to become increasingly difficult for us to compete - particularly on a tight budget.
As unpalatable as it is we've just got to face facts, if we want to be able to compete with these clubs on the pitch then we've got to be able to compete with them in the transfer market. Expecting perfect decision making season in season out as a counterbalance to their millions is living in la-la land stuff.
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Postby kazza » Sun Apr 02, 2023 5:20 pm

Spending needs to be done certainly but still…. Klopp needs to find a way to get this lot to win and get into the CL, it will make everything so my harder if we don’t. He needs to find a system that works for this team or we are screwed. We have good players that are playing below their best and that has to be the manager’s responsibility to turn that around. We cannot possibly buy any players until summer anyway.
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Postby red till i die!! » Sun Apr 02, 2023 5:57 pm

Managers have a style of coaching and it's usually set in stone. No manager I can think of has reinvented himself at a club. This is klopps style and has got him to where he is so looking for him to change won't happen. It is so effing frustrating not having a plan B and the odd time on paper it looks like we have a different formation but it's really just the same thing. Klopps system works when he has the right tools but he's not being getting that.

Our recruitment hasn't been as good as some make out imo. The management of some has been worse. We are always waiting and hoping players will return from injury to pick us up but when they do we are waiting on someone else. It's always a weak squad.

The midfield has completely gone off a cliff this year but it just isn't all down to that. Defensively we have been poor. All of them guilty of schoolboy errors at times. Up front though is a much bigger problem . For all of the great players we have they aren't producing the goals. Salah for all the criticism he gets is still our top scorer by a country mile and he misses some amount of chances. It hasn't been a great season from him either but it's been really poor from the rest. A lot needs to click for us to be pushing at the top next season.
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Postby Penguins » Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:49 pm

So damn deluded to blame Klopp. Good luck when the next mamnager comes and will do even worse. Who will you blame then?
The owners are *****, have always been ***** and will continue to be *****. The lucked out ONCE when they hired Klopp, not much else they've done has been great. For the club that is....
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Postby woof woof ! » Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:48 pm

Throw stones at me if you want to fellas BUT ! as much as I love him IMO Jurgen has to be held much more responsible for our performances this season.

Sure , we can point to all the deficiencies in the squad but surely a managers job is to recognise and work around them ?

I'm not excusing the players below par performances this season BUT surely Jurgen has to realise the "tools" he's been working with are not as sharp as they once were.

In all honesty I'm beginning to wonder if Jurgen  has the tactical ability to absorb, accept and adjust to this. :( 

Hate to say it but results this season suggest that he hasn't.  :down:
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Postby Reg » Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:39 pm

Shanks, Bob, Fagan, Kenny made the calls: if we needed replacement players, we got the players.
Klopp has failed miserably in transition planning. For me, this is a manager issue, not owners.
Klopps done a superb job but the current humiliating situation is his making.
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Postby kazza » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:16 am

So we don’t go off on a tangent….I am not attacking Klopp, I’m just saying it is his responsibility to find a way to get this lot of good players to play above themselves and get us into the CL. If they are too tired and old to press like they did, we shouldn’t set up as a pressing team. Surely there is a way to absorb pressure and use our speed to counterattack them to death. Rafa used to change teams according to the opposition. He was accused of tinkering too much and over rotating but he seemed to have a game plan for each different team. He was probably too tactical and criticism of him was probably valid, he also didn’t really give players freedom to be brave as Klopp does. I love Klopp’s football and want it to continue but we need to win and get into the CL so whatever works and it is his responsibility as the manager to find a way. Klopp as honest as he is would probably admit that. I do understand that these players play this way but would also rather win.

We need to make it to summer with as little damage to next season as possible, the priority is CL football.
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Postby red till i die!! » Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:34 am

We have a transfer committee with 5 people sitting on it so it's unfair to pin all this on klopp. It's not like it was years ago when managers have full control.

Maybe klopp went last year and said I want a midfielder. They said yeah what about this lad from Monaco. Klopp agrees and the player goes elsewhere. Klopp goes hey I still need a midfielder and they say we want to wait to sign this lad next season instead. Klopp goes but I still need a midfielder and they gave him a used worn bandage to cover a crack. January comes and we sign an attacker instead.

If he was the one making these calls then I'd say get him out the door quick but he isn't.  It's the committee making these decisions based on other stuff ahead of what's best for the team. It's all based on what we have to spend and that's on the owners.
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Postby Reg » Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:13 am

Let's not speculate Red otherwise we move into fantasy land.

Yes you have a transfer committee but Klopp is the natural leader of that commitee because he tells them what he needs then they go and investigate and report back to him and the board. It's been obvious to the fans that not bringing in players and getting rid of dead wood for the last 4 years was going to come back and bite our a$$. If Klopp doesn't have the balls to stand and fight his corner for more players then he's a wuss. If he didn't think we needed more players then he's an idiot. Take your pick.

But he got paid £16 million last year and we're trying to make excuses for him. Until he comes out and said I demanded the following players..... then it appears he didn't and that's his fault and not the owners.

Am I having a go at Klopp? Too right I am. The players are worn out.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:34 am

Wins our first league title in 30 years, goes incredibly close on 2 other occasions, gets us to 3 CL finals which to put in context City and PSG after a decade of spending like a pair of drunken sailors have gotten to 1 each, if that wasn't enough he wins both domestic cup competitions and the world club championship just for good measure - all done on the nett spend of a mid table club and up against the richest most powerful clubs in the 135 year history of the pro game.
The only questions Jurgen should be getting asked should revolve around the fact wether he prefers his statue to be in marble or bronze. Granted he's not having a particularly good season but that happens, Shanks had a few of them, even Bob finished 5th once.
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Postby Reg » Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:45 pm

He's done a great job Yakka, of course.

But he's taken his eye off the ball despite being paid £16 million quid. I don't get a warm, fuzzy feeling when I see Liverpool humiliated, I ask why are we in this position then want to see that the club is reacting immediately to correct the situation. I don't understand why the fans don't see it for what it is, bad management, bad planning and totally avoidable.
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Postby UvS xR4GEx » Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:11 pm

We don't actually know what happens behind the scenes. Klopp might have wanted to invest in the midfield, but we have so much dead wood in that department that the owners were waiting until we either sold a few to free up the wage bill, or they were waiting for players to leave at the end of the season.

FSG have alot of question marks hanging over their head, and they need to show they're committed to the club and care about its future this summer. Klopp needs to be backed in the transfer window.. its a £250m fix needed through negligence in previous years. There's alot of good players available for free aswell so I hope we've been doing our homework in planning properly.
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Postby red till i die!! » Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:46 pm

He's not the leader of any committee Reg and just has a say. Do you really think we sign players and make decisions based on what he wants ? Or based on what the club have lined up and can afford ? I think you will find it's the latter and pretty much confirmed by Ayre in an interview last year. When Gordon stepped down Gorst wrote a piece saying the committee still exists and leaving members would be replaced. FSG won't allow one person to dictate things.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... klopp/amp/

Where have you ever read that he calls the shots Reg or has control over everything ?   It's well documented how the club operates under FSG.
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Postby Tommy Smith » Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:04 pm

Good hammering and it was a well-deserved,  very shameful performance for LFC and the faithful fans, the media was falsely stating in the pre-match preparation that Liverpool will beat M.City!! A dream on Klopp's wish!

FSG might take the blame for this steady and alarming decline of LFC, however, the main and only reason for such a decline is Klopp, he has lost the plot, and couldn't rectify the defensive problems since the pre-season hammering and he seems to be unable to stop decay whatsoever, even if he remains in charge of the team management for the next two years!.. Just look at the player like VVD, Trent, £400K Salah, and Co are underperforming, because, they are not playing for LFC nor the nutcase manager.

LFC needs a clean cut from this chronic management team, otherwise, the club's fate could be in serious trouble next season, no matter what new players will be coming in, everyone knows Klopp's shopping list, it will be full of duds the likes of Keita & Co.

God Help us!
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Postby Reg » Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:11 pm

red till i die!! » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:46 pm wrote:He's not the leader of any committee Reg and just has a say. Do you really think we sign players and make decisions based on what he wants ? Or based on what the club have lined up and can afford ? I think you will find it's the latter and pretty much confirmed by Ayre in an interview last year. When Gordon stepped down Gorst wrote a piece saying the committee still exists and leaving members would be replaced. FSG won't allow one person to dictate things.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... klopp/amp/

Where have you ever read that he calls the shots Reg or has control over everything ?   It's well documented how the club operates under FSG.

Red, you're splitting hairs. Of course he leads the committee with Gordon - the two executives representing football and the owners/finance. Other committee members are the people who analyse, recommend and negotiate but don't think for a moment that Klopp doesn't have the final say who comes to Anfield! It's business.

Fellas above trying to blame the owners... this isn't a glazers situation at Ure, FSG have invested in major projects on a ongoing basis, the training ground (£50m if anyones forgotten), the mainstand and now Annie Road. The Kemlyn Rd will be next. These are systematic of an ownership understanding how to create value and provide us with the best facilities. Player STRATEGY and DECISIONS have been so woeful in comparison it's as if it's 2 separate companies! Rolls Royce and Mini. There's no logic behind not investing in 2019, 20 and 21 when if we'd invested £70 mill a season as City do (ref a previous post I made about LFC spending patterns compared to other top 5 clubs) we wouldn't be in the same $hitty situation we're in now. One key player a season. Instead we spent £53 million on Naby feking useless Keita then holding onto him til his contract runs down, or we watch Milly and Hendo go past their sell by dates together, in the same midfield as invisible Keita,  and Jones/Carvalho who are struggling to make the grade! All they had to do to avoid this was invest in one player a season and recover some of that fee by selling the marginal players. Now we have to replace Joel and possibly Gomez, but we're holding on to Rhys and Nat Phillips - why?  Now we have a growing problem with Trent - no back up and 2 other CM's to replace plus Rhys/Nat to sell - one problem, no.. upto 5 just in defence + replacing Milly, Hendo, Keita.... 8 possible player transactions. Look at the wider scheme of things, LFC allow situations to fester when if they acted prompted they wouldn't even be situations. That's not John Henry's fault, he relies on Klopp who he pays £16 million a year to handle that side of the business

Klopp needs to stop worrying about his hair, teeth and glasses and focus on the team.

I'm starting to sound like Tommy Smith!
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