Liverpool FC Forum

Reg wrote:

red till i die!! » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:46 pm wrote:He's not the leader of any committee Reg and just has a say. Do you really think we sign players and make decisions based on what he wants ? Or based on what the club have lined up and can afford ? I think you will find it's the latter and pretty much confirmed by Ayre in an interview last year. When Gordon stepped down Gorst wrote a piece saying the committee still exists and leaving members would be replaced. FSG won't allow one person to dictate things.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... klopp/amp/

Where have you ever read that he calls the shots Reg or has control over everything ?   It's well documented how the club operates under FSG.

Red, you're splitting hairs. Of course he leads the committee with Gordon - the two executives representing football and the owners/finance. Other committee members are the people who analyse, recommend and negotiate but don't think for a moment that Klopp doesn't have the final say who comes to Anfield! It's business.

Fellas above trying to blame the owners... this isn't a glazers situation at Ure, FSG have invested in major projects on a ongoing basis, the training ground (£50m if anyones forgotten), the mainstand and now Annie Road. The Kemlyn Rd will be next. These are systematic of an ownership understanding how to create value and provide us with the best facilities. Player STRATEGY and DECISIONS have been so woeful in comparison it's as if it's 2 separate companies! Rolls Royce and Mini. There's no logic behind not investing in 2019, 20 and 21 when if we'd invested £70 mill a season as City do (ref a previous post I made about LFC spending patterns compared to other top 5 clubs) we wouldn't be in the same $hitty situation we're in now. One key player a season. Instead we spent £53 million on Naby feking useless Keita then holding onto him til his contract runs down, or we watch Milly and Hendo go past their sell by dates together, in the same midfield as invisible Keita,  and Jones/Carvalho who are struggling to make the grade! All they had to do to avoid this was invest in one player a season and recover some of that fee by selling the marginal players. Now we have to replace Joel and possibly Gomez, but we're holding on to Rhys and Nat Phillips - why?  Now we have a growing problem with Trent - no back up and 2 other CM's to replace plus Rhys/Nat to sell - one problem, no.. upto 5 just in defence + replacing Milly, Hendo, Keita.... 8 possible player transactions. Look at the wider scheme of things, LFC allow situations to fester when if they acted prompted they wouldn't even be situations. That's not John Henry's fault, he relies on Klopp who he pays £16 million a year to handle that side of the business

Klopp needs to stop worrying about his hair, teeth and glasses and focus on the team.

I'm starting to sound like Tommy Smith!

The most telling part of your post is " FSG have invested in major projects on a ongoing basis" - yes but at the expense of the BIGGEST PROJECT which is the Team and the Squad.

I'm not saying they shouldn't try to create value they should  at a pace which allows us  to create a team that challenges for the PL and CL every year. Their focus is and always has been "building the franchise".

It's really simple spend at the level of a mid table team ...guess where you will finish sooner rather than later. Klopp has been royally scr*wed with the lack of investment in the team. No one else would have won the PL and CL with what he had to work with - NO ONE.

As it is their beloved franchise is going to be devalued significantly by loss of CL income and so there will be no money to compete for the best players. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

The sooner they sell up and get lost the better - we need owners that give a sh*t about the sport and FAR more importantly about LIVERPOOL FC.
The Qataris who are buying United are huge fans of the club and will move heaven and earth to get them back winning the league.

FSG won't even move a chair to sit on as they are never here.

Lads, we're used to the expression 'sell to buy' but are you telling me FSG denied Klopp funds to buy for 4 straight years? Nah.

I'm not sure you're ever going to understand my view. The capital projects had long term finance, the squad financing are different credit lines and risk profile. They're different. Pep got it right, Klopp got it wrong, he ran the lads into the ground and we had no depth to the squad. We all saw it coming.

Reg wrote:

red till i die!! » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:46 pm wrote:He's not the leader of any committee Reg and just has a say. Do you really think we sign players and make decisions based on what he wants ? Or based on what the club have lined up and can afford ? I think you will find it's the latter and pretty much confirmed by Ayre in an interview last year. When Gordon stepped down Gorst wrote a piece saying the committee still exists and leaving members would be replaced. FSG won't allow one person to dictate things.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... klopp/amp/

Where have you ever read that he calls the shots Reg or has control over everything ?   It's well documented how the club operates under FSG.

Red, you're splitting hairs. Of course he leads the committee with Gordon - the two executives representing football and the owners/finance. Other committee members are the people who analyse, recommend and negotiate but don't think for a moment that Klopp doesn't have the final say who comes to Anfield! It's business.

Fellas above trying to blame the owners... this isn't a glazers situation at Ure, FSG have invested in major projects on a ongoing basis, the training ground (£50m if anyones forgotten), the mainstand and now Annie Road. The Kemlyn Rd will be next. These are systematic of an ownership understanding how to create value and provide us with the best facilities. Player STRATEGY and DECISIONS have been so woeful in comparison it's as if it's 2 separate companies! Rolls Royce and Mini. There's no logic behind not investing in 2019, 20 and 21 when if we'd invested £70 mill a season as City do (ref a previous post I made about LFC spending patterns compared to other top 5 clubs) we wouldn't be in the same $hitty situation we're in now. One key player a season. Instead we spent £53 million on Naby feking useless Keita then holding onto him til his contract runs down, or we watch Milly and Hendo go past their sell by dates together, in the same midfield as invisible Keita,  and Jones/Carvalho who are struggling to make the grade! All they had to do to avoid this was invest in one player a season and recover some of that fee by selling the marginal players. Now we have to replace Joel and possibly Gomez, but we're holding on to Rhys and Nat Phillips - why?  Now we have a growing problem with Trent - no back up and 2 other CM's to replace plus Rhys/Nat to sell - one problem, no.. upto 5 just in defence + replacing Milly, Hendo, Keita.... 8 possible player transactions. Look at the wider scheme of things, LFC allow situations to fester when if they acted prompted they wouldn't even be situations. That's not John Henry's fault, he relies on Klopp who he pays £16 million a year to handle that side of the business

Klopp needs to stop worrying about his hair, teeth and glasses and focus on the team.

I'm starting to sound like Tommy Smith!

He's the manager Reg so naturally has final say on what players are coming in. That is mentioned in any piece about the committee. They won't force players on him he doesn't want.  When the committee was set up one of the main reasons for doing it was that one manager doesn't come in and change everything before getting the sack and then another lad coming in and doing the same. The manager doesn't identify or scout players and he doesn't negotiate deals. What he does is pick from a list of players we can afford.

Keita and Ox being let wind down their contracts imo isn't klopps call.Its at least 8 players since he's come in. He doesn't play them unless we are down to the bare bones. Nat Phillips is still here because no club will match the clubs valuation so he stays. Again not Klopps call. We had a back up for Trent but sold him to offset other purchases. His replacement is a kid from a lower league who got injured. I don't see how klopp is responsible for this. Its the club who decide if we spend and what we spend and that's based on profit in any given year along with what the wage bill can afford. It's living within your means which is company policy.

This is what he signed up to and was happy with the structure. I doubt he is a wuss at all but certainly a massive yes man. He will work with what he has to the best he can. If given the option to replace players like Ox and Keita he would have. 

The club is a taxi Reg and Klopp is the driver. It has served you well in being profitable and you have managed to get away with the odd minor service. Some years it gets skipped but despite parts failing you keep her digging by adding a bit of glue here and there. Then a really big year happens where the car got drove to its absolute limits with concerns emerging about a particular part. Feck it we will stick a bit of glue and fix it next year. The glue didn't hold and the engine fell out so we added a piece to the steering.

Who's at fault, The owner of the or the Driver 

I genuinely get the frustration with Klopp and maybe for some they feel he should be getting more from the players or he's here to long. That I get but the rest I believe is mostly out of his control. Imo we would have ended up in this position now even if we had Guardiola or Ancelotti at the helm.

If we had Guardiola or Ancelotti we wouldn't be in this position, because as good as they are they would never have brought us to where Klopp has with the little recources he's had.

2 years ago everyone knew we needed a defender, but we never signed one and ended up struggling for the whole season. Before this season, everyone and their grandma knew we needed a midfielder more than anything but we never signed one, so now we'll probably end up missing out CL for next season. This is 100% the owners fault, while Klopp has done a lot more than anyone else could with so little financial backing. If everyone knew we needed new midfielder(s) I'm sure Klopp knew as well, but people ask him in press conferences about this and of course he's gonna say we're working on it, we're looking for the right player blah blah, what else can he say? He can't say "Of course I need a f*cking midfielder, do you think I want to have Ox and Keita in my squad for 5 years and have them do f*ck all? But I'm not the one with the money to spend now am I?"

If we can blame Klopp for anything is that he most likely knew from the start that things would be like this with us, make do with not so much financial backing. Hell the owners probably told him it's gonna be that way, that they're not here to spend fortunes like our rivals. He probably liked the challenge, that's his only fault (if we can call it that) in this whole situation.

My last comment on the subject.
1. City have spent a net £-70m on transfers a season for about the last 7 years to bring in core players (spent £70m more than they've recovered).
2. Not only have LFC not done that but we haven't sold the deadwood which WOULD HAVE raised funds to buy other players, instead he chose to run the first team into the ground.
3. Our injury record is appalling, the worst in the league which exacerbates the problem still further.

Ok let's blame the owners for that if you want, but there are the 3 reasons why we're playing so badly at the moment.