Liverpool FC Forum

[redtrader74]

So Benitez can't be blamed for picking these players in the starting 11?

Who do we blame then.....Joan the tea girl?

How about the players who are paid to perform?

No no no no, that wouldn't do. We love SG Carra et al, and it doesn't suit our previous stance and argument. How could we say 'we were right yippee!' No lets just stick it to Rafa instead.

The lot of them need beating with a rubber hose all round Melwood, the overpaid, pampered streaks of Piss.

[ConnO'var]

So Benitez can't be blamed for picking these players in the starting 11?

Who do we blame then.....Joan the tea girl?

How about the players who are paid to perform?

Sorry mate..... but that doesn't hold water....

As the manager, he's paid to ensure that the players we have, perform. If they don't, he's paid to do something about it. If the entire squad cannot perform, then something is very wrong... good players do not become bad overnight. After all he bought the majority of the players.

A manager lives and dies by the results he produces.... All manner of factors affect the obtainable results.

eg.

1. Player quality
2. Player motivation
3. Tactics
4. Injury
5. etc etc...

Of the list above, only injuries are out of a manager's (whose had 4 years at the helm) hands.

To answer the 1st post, there are 2 maybe 3 men out there who I feel would do a good job. In order of preference....

1. Kenny Dalglish
2. Martin O'Neil
3. Gus Hiddink...

I'll put up the reasons why in a later post.... have to run to a meeting.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

So Houllier winning our first European trophy for nearly two decades was easier than Benitez winning our first European trophy for nearly 5 years?

Yes, Rafa winning the UCL was a significantly more difficult achievement than Houllier winning the UEFA cup.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head seen to.

I'm not saying Benitez didn't have a difficult job winning the European Cup, but it's not that much harder to win that, then it is to win the UEFA, because all the teams in the UEFA are at the same level. Just like all the teams in the European Cup are at the same level.

Overall the teams in the UCL are of a higher calibre than the teams in the UEFA cup, it is far harder to win because of this. The motivation to win it is huge, and overall it's probably the most sought after club trophy in the world.

It is significantly more difficult to win the UCL than the UEFA cup.

I'm not going to keep banging my head against the wall on this one.

If the UEFA is so easy to win, and teams from the European Cup are of higher quality. How come sides who get knocked out of the European Cup don't go and win the UEFA?

But maybe I have been favouring Houllier here because I feel he isn't given enough credit by the majority of fans. I agree the European Cup is a more glamours trophy to win, and probably is more difficult, but that doesn't take anything away from the fact that the UEFA in 2001, let everyone know again that Liverpool Football Club was capable of winning trophies in Europe again and anybody who wants to disregard the UEFA in 2001 is an absoloute joke.

[LFC2007]

So Houllier winning our first European trophy for nearly two decades was easier than Benitez winning our first European trophy for nearly 5 years?

Yes, Rafa winning the UCL was a significantly more difficult achievement than Houllier winning the UEFA cup.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head seen to.

I'm not saying Benitez didn't have a difficult job winning the European Cup, but it's not that much harder to win that, then it is to win the UEFA, because all the teams in the UEFA are at the same level. Just like all the teams in the European Cup are at the same level.

Overall the teams in the UCL are of a higher calibre than the teams in the UEFA cup, it is far harder to win because of this. The motivation to win it is huge, and overall it's probably the most sought after club trophy in the world.

It is significantly more difficult to win the UCL than the UEFA cup.

I'm not going to keep banging my head against the wall on this one.

If the UEFA is so easy to win, and teams from the European Cup are of higher quality. How come sides who get knocked out of the European Cup don't go and win the UEFA?

Because that's cup football. The teams who drop out of the UCL are third placed sides in the group stages - those sides are often the teams who have won or come second in their domestic league (usually from a relatively weak European League) to get into the competition in the first place - teams such as Slavia Prague, Rangers, Benfica, Sporting, Werder Bremen, Marseille. They're filtered out, and the best usually progress to the knockout stages - these teams are on a different level to those in the corresponding UEFA draw. The teams who drop out are often of a similar standard to the best teams already in the UEFA cup draw - the likes of Spurs, Munich, Atletico Madrid, Spartak Moscow, Bordeaux, Villareal, Leverkusen etc, and thus have a similar chance of winning. Werder Bremen or Spurs for example, PSV or Atletico Madrid? Fine margins determine the ultimate winner.

Anything else and I refer you to my previous answers.

[Kharhaz]

So Benitez can't be blamed for picking these players in the starting 11?

Who do we blame then.....Joan the tea girl?

How about the players who are paid to perform?

It's still Benitez who picks them. If he doesn't feel they can perform, he shouldn't pick them should he?

Your scraping the barrel now.

In other words you can't answer or justify Benitez' selections because that shows him up to be the one in the wrong.

He picks them and if he's not prepared to change them with the subs allocated to him by the laws of the FA, then he takes the blame.

No, its a case of you have made up your mind that rafa is at fault for everything and that these overpaid, over egos that wear the shirt for us are untouchable. Consider this. The wage rafa is on to take all the hassle that comes with his job, compared to the wage the key players are on that do the dream job of playing for our fantastic club. No wonder they are untouchable, they are faultless.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

So Houllier winning our first European trophy for nearly two decades was easier than Benitez winning our first European trophy for nearly 5 years?

Yes, Rafa winning the UCL was a significantly more difficult achievement than Houllier winning the UEFA cup.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head seen to.

I'm not saying Benitez didn't have a difficult job winning the European Cup, but it's not that much harder to win that, then it is to win the UEFA, because all the teams in the UEFA are at the same level. Just like all the teams in the European Cup are at the same level.

Overall the teams in the UCL are of a higher calibre than the teams in the UEFA cup, it is far harder to win because of this. The motivation to win it is huge, and overall it's probably the most sought after club trophy in the world.

It is significantly more difficult to win the UCL than the UEFA cup.

I'm not going to keep banging my head against the wall on this one.

If the UEFA is so easy to win, and teams from the European Cup are of higher quality. How come sides who get knocked out of the European Cup don't go and win the UEFA?

Because that's cup football.

Anything else and I refer you to my previous answers.

Exactly cup football. You can get just as much luck in the European Cup as you can in the UEFA.

[LFC2007]

So Houllier winning our first European trophy for nearly two decades was easier than Benitez winning our first European trophy for nearly 5 years?

Yes, Rafa winning the UCL was a significantly more difficult achievement than Houllier winning the UEFA cup.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head seen to.

I'm not saying Benitez didn't have a difficult job winning the European Cup, but it's not that much harder to win that, then it is to win the UEFA, because all the teams in the UEFA are at the same level. Just like all the teams in the European Cup are at the same level.

Overall the teams in the UCL are of a higher calibre than the teams in the UEFA cup, it is far harder to win because of this. The motivation to win it is huge, and overall it's probably the most sought after club trophy in the world.

It is significantly more difficult to win the UCL than the UEFA cup.

I'm not going to keep banging my head against the wall on this one.

If the UEFA is so easy to win, and teams from the European Cup are of higher quality. How come sides who get knocked out of the European Cup don't go and win the UEFA?

Because that's cup football.

Anything else and I refer you to my previous answers.

Exactly cup football. You can get just as much luck in the European Cup as you can in the UEFA.

It's brick wall time I'm afraid.

I now refer you to my previous answers.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

So Benitez can't be blamed for picking these players in the starting 11?

Who do we blame then.....Joan the tea girl?

How about the players who are paid to perform?

It's still Benitez who picks them. If he doesn't feel they can perform, he shouldn't pick them should he?

Your scraping the barrel now.

In other words you can't answer or justify Benitez' selections because that shows him up to be the one in the wrong.

He picks them and if he's not prepared to change them with the subs allocated to him by the laws of the FA, then he takes the blame.

No, its a case of you have made up your mind that rafa is at fault for everything and that these overpaid, over egos that wear the shirt for us are untouchable. Consider this. The wage rafa is on to take all the hassle that comes with his job, compared to the wage the key players are on that do the dream job of playing for our fantastic club. No wonder they are untouchable, they are faultless.

If you honestly think that I believe the players are unblameable (if that's a word) then you're seriously in need of a white padded room. Go and read every other post I've done if need be, go and see how often I blame the players for not performing and not showing pride or passion. I suggest you do that before coming out with stupid statements like your last.

Either way, the blame still falls mainly at the feet of Benitez.

[Kharhaz]

If you honestly think that I believe the players are unblameable (if that's a word) then you're seriously in need of a white padded room. Go and read every other post I've done if need be, go and see how often I blame the players for not performing and not showing pride or passion. I suggest you do that before coming out with stupid statements like your last.

Either way, the blame still falls mainly at the feet of Benitez.

By that I dont need too, you have just said so yourself, its rafas fault.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

If you honestly think that I believe the players are unblameable (if that's a word) then you're seriously in need of a white padded room. Go and read every other post I've done if need be, go and see how often I blame the players for not performing and not showing pride or passion. I suggest you do that before coming out with stupid statements like your last.

Either way, the blame still falls mainly at the feet of Benitez.

By that I dont need too, you have just said so yourself, its rafas fault.

It is Benitez' fault, but the players and the owners have played a part in that. But still it's down to Benitez.

[ruskiy playmaker]

So Houllier winning our first European trophy for nearly two decades was easier than Benitez winning our first European trophy for nearly 5 years?

There isn't a great deal of difference between the two. Houllier's achievement shouldn't be knocked down just to make Benitez' look better. Houllier's victory in the UEFA Cup is just as important as anything else this club have achieved in Europe. The UEFA Cup is the platform for the European Cup. If you don't believe me, look at this:

Liverpool win the UEFA Cup in 73, four years later win the European Cup in 77
Liverpool win the UEFA Cup in 01, four years later win the European Cup in 05

Why do you defend GH, it's not like he ever brought us the title?  You even try to compare UEFA cup to CL, just to make GH look good.  Rafa is by far more superior manager than GH.

I defend Houllier so highly because people like you and the majority are happy to shrug off what he achieved for this club. He might not of brought us in the league, but he brought us closer than Benitez has.

2001/02 we finished second, that was Houllier's fourth full season, we finihsed eight points behind. Benitez' fourth full season in charge and we're already 20 points behind. So where's the superior?

We finish 9 points behind Chelsea back in 2006 and 1 point behind Man U and we also got a record ever points in the league.  I'd say that's better than Houllier's second spot considering it was Rafa's second season.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Nine points behind, is better than eight behind? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe it's a scouse thing but to me the closer you are the better. It's better to be eight points behind then nine.

[RedBlood]

oh my dayz things have been hard this season no doubt but i believe a promising season turned into what it is now because of all this off field trouble,

the people that need replacing are the onwers and i hope dic can come in and sort this out

then let rafa buy the players he truely wants and if there is no improvement then look elsewhere

our problem is we cant hit the back of the net its the hardest thing to do in football and the players we have that can do it on a reg are torres gerrard and crouch

we need to build on our centre midfield solid defence and keeper with players who can make and score goals ie: strikers and wingers

[JoeTerp]

In one sense I can understand why GBJH says that the cups are of similar difficulty to win, because its both cup football and only one team can win and they are of similar formats with knockout stages over two legs, but COME ON there is a HUGE gulf in quality that makes it exponentially harder to win the Champions League, this is not even a debate.  There is a reason why the top 4 english clubs compete in the CL and 5 through 8 play in the UEFA/Intertoto cup.  FFS Bolton is in the UEFA cup, compare that to a match against INTER or Man U.  Seriously what the F are you talking about.  And you earlier point on how somehow the fact that we won the UEFA cup 4 years before benefited Rafa is crazy, that made no difference on our cup run. and the fact that we hadn't won a euro trophy in so long did not make it any harder for GH, 1, for a large period LFC was banned from euro competition, and apart from the 2000 season, we had qualified the 4 years before that for Europe so we clearly had a squad of some quality

[god_bless_john_houlding]

So when we won the UEFA Cup in 2001, we didn't play the time's greatest football side in Barcelona?
So when we won the UEFA Cup in 2001, we didn't have to battle against one of Italy's giants in Roma?
So when we won the UEFA Cup in 2001, we didn't conceed four goals in the final, but in the European Cup it was only three...that mean Alaves were a better attacking side than Milan? Afterall our defence in 01 was better than 05. Hyypia and Carragher in both, so it comes down to Babbel or Finnan, Babbel all day and Henchoz or Traore....well we all know Hencoz was a top defender.

Huge gulf eh?