Liverpool FC Forum

[Torres 2007]

he should go really.

He has ability, but he has many weakness's too.

I'll name them:

1. his poor heading ability. Just watch the Reading game. crouch lost virtually every header when the ball was kicked forward ,to a 5ft 10in Reading defender. he did the same V Croatia for England, and squandered loads of free headers V Tolouse Earlier in the season.

So his height is really of no advantage to him.

2. He is not a prolific goalscorer.

he will not score 20+ a season,, ever!

3. He has no pace. he can not run at, and beat defenders. a MAJOR important attribute needed for being a premier league striker.

the likes of RIo Ferdinand, John Terry, Carvalho, etc. will just pick Crouch off easy ALL DAY LONG!.

Some of you say, well he causes teams problems, he's a handful!

NO HE'S NOT!

how many problems did he  cause reading? or croatia, or chelsea last night.

ok he can chest it down, and lay it off, but i mean....so can i!

Liability not asset.

[big al]

The thing with Crouch is that he so awkward he has no idea himself what he's going to do so no one else has a clue, this is his biggest threat and that why defenders find marking him so difficult.  I agree on one thing though and thats if Rafa gets a good offer he should take it and invest in a better player.

[heimdall]

We only have two strikers Torres and Babel if only that tactical genius that calls himself Rafa would figure that out then we could maybe start winning. Plus why the hell was Torres rested last night, anybody have any insight into this latest tactical masterstroke from Rafa? F%&k me I'm getting tired of Rafa now. That's 3 losses on the bounce now and people still think we can win the league!! Until we get rid of Rafa the only thing we have a chance of winning is the champions league but then again that's all Rafa is interested in anyway isn't it so that he can promote himself to the job at Real Madrid.

[Bammo]

Plus why the hell was Torres rested last night, anybody have any insight into this latest tactical masterstroke from Rafa? F%&k me I'm getting tired of Rafa now. That's 3 losses on the bounce now and people still think we can win the league!!

I take it you were praising Rafa for playing Torres in the Carling cup game against Reading then?

And it's not 3 games on the bounce, it's 2. We beat Marseille 4-0 remember 

[heimdall]

Plus why the hell was Torres rested last night, anybody have any insight into this latest tactical masterstroke from Rafa? F%&k me I'm getting tired of Rafa now. That's 3 losses on the bounce now and people still think we can win the league!!

I take it you were praising Rafa for playing Torres in the Carling cup game against Reading then?

And it's not 3 games on the bounce, it's 2. We beat Marseille 4-0 remember 

erm yes I think Torres should play every game unless he is knackered or injured, you don't pay that kind of money for a player and then rest them. It is 3 games on the bounce, Reading, Man Utd and now Chelsea, where did you learn how to add up??

[big al]

heimdall sorry but its two losses on the bounce. Rafa can't win no matter what he does.  But we need perspective. 
1. The Champions league is NO1 and sorry I know we want the premiership but the Champions league is money and that's at the core of modern day football.  Rafa is doing well on that front and he picked a team to beat Marseille. Also its Liverpools preformances here that allow Rafa to attract players like Torres he came to play champions league football so will others if we keep doing well.
2. A defeat to Man U in the league at this stage is not the end of the world, Rafa's rotation system will bring him closer this year. Now I don't know if it will be close enough, But it will be closer than the last few years.  His squad will be strong for the run in o0f that I'm sure, they were last year.
3. Chealsea,  He needed to rest Torres and Gerrard for Portsmouth, nobody moreso than Gerrard, who is a very firm family man, and whilst he was away some scumbags entered his family home and interfered with his private life threatening his wife and kids safety.  Stevie deserves a medal for playing last Sunday and no wonder he was'nt his normal self.  But anyway he learnt a lot last night, he saw what some players were really made of and in particular he saw Peter Crouch throw away the game. Rafa asked some players to step up to the mark and they were found wanting.

[heimdall]

heimdall sorry but its two losses on the bounce. Rafa can't win no matter what he does.  But we need perspective. 
1. The Champions league is NO1 and sorry I know we want the premiership but the Champions league is money and that's at the core of modern day football.  Rafa is doing well on that front and he picked a team to beat Marseille. Also its Liverpools preformances here that allow Rafa to attract players like Torres he came to play champions league football so will others if we keep doing well.
2. A defeat to Man U in the league at this stage is not the end of the world, Rafa's rotation system will bring him closer this year. Now I don't know if it will be close enough, But it will be closer than the last few years.  His squad will be strong for the run in o0f that I'm sure, they were last year.
3. Chealsea,  He needed to rest Torres and Gerrard for Portsmouth, nobody moreso than Gerrard, who is a very firm family man, and whilst he was away some scumbags entered his family home and interfered with his private life threatening his wife and kids safety.  Stevie deserves a medal for playing last Sunday and no wonder he was'nt his normal self.  But anyway he learnt a lot last night, he saw what some players were really made of and in particular he saw Peter Crouch throw away the game. Rafa asked some players to step up to the mark and they were found wanting.

Hi Big Al, the problem is that I can't imagine Rafa being very inspirational in the changing room, his tactics are 1 dimensional. How often have you seen Rafa be able to change tactics on the fly and take command of the game because I can't remember when I last saw this. Great managers like Mouriniho, Wenger and Ferguson have this ability and they can also man manage to get the best out of their players. Now we all know Crouch is sh1t but the way he has been treated by Rafa is apalling and I'm sure the other managers would have gotten more out of Crouch, not much more but maybe that little bit which is needed.
Loosing to Man Utd is maybe not the end of the world but is prob the end of the league campaign and in any case its bloody humiliating that we can't beat those feckers!! 

[Bammo]

It is 3 games on the bounce, Reading, Man Utd and now Chelsea, where did you learn how to add up??

Here you go, from Liverpool's official site:

08 Dec, 2007 Reading Barclays Premier League A 17:15 Y N Y 1-3
11 Dec, 2007 Olympique Marseille Champions League Group Phase A 19:45 Y N Y 4-0
16 Dec, 2007 Manchester United Barclays Premier League H 13:30 Y N Y 0-1
19 Dec, 2007 Chelsea Carling Cup A 19:45 Y N Y 0-2

Fixtures and Results

Obviously you'll see that my adding up allows me to realise that the 8th December (reading) comes before the 11th December (Marseille).

[big al]

heimdall the leaguie is not over, we have had 2 defeats, arsenal and Chelsea will be batter by the African nations cup, as for the Manc's they are not looking as hot as everyone seems to think.  I think they will falter.  If Liverpool keep plugging away they'll get damn close.  As for Rafa the man manager, his style is different granted but he seems to have the loyality of his players, they have faith in his tactics.  do't worry about beating Man U A defeat at old Trafford will taste much nicer.

[bigmick]

Bammo I can't believe you're even bothering to argue the point mate. The fella doesn't know what day it is, never mind how long the run of losses is/was. Sometimes you are better letting people poodle along, obliviously thinking they know what they they are looking at and talking about, when in actual fact they are clinically clueless.

As for Big Al's point about us being stronger in the second half of seasons and on the run-in, I think it's a bit of an urban myth to be perfectly honest. I do remember a couple of years abck the "delayed gazelle theory" (you know the one which says if you rest a bloke in September it will actually come to fruition in March when he is fresher and sharper than the poor opposition who have played lots of matches) did appear to work as we went on an extended run of unbeaten matches at the end of the season. It didn't happen last season though, as goodness knows how but Chelsea and Man Utd just kept winning every week as they went toe to toe for the title. Meanwhile we rested our players as we were already out of it and were on our way to a Champions league final. I'm not criticising that policy BTW, it made sense at the time and even though we didn't win the final, it was the right move given the circumstances. We actually ended up twenty one points behind the eventual winners, but as many people said at the time, we would no doubt have been closer if we had really gone for it. We didn't though have a great second half of the season in truth, despite the "delayed gazelle" effect.

[maguskwt]

We only have two strikers Torres and Babel if only that tactical genius that calls himself Rafa would figure that out then we could maybe start winning. Plus why the hell was Torres rested last night, anybody have any insight into this latest tactical masterstroke from Rafa? F%&k me I'm getting tired of Rafa now. That's 3 losses on the bounce now and people still think we can win the league!! Until we get rid of Rafa the only thing we have a chance of winning is the champions league but then again that's all Rafa is interested in anyway isn't it so that he can promote himself to the job at Real Madrid.

you are so clueless that my 8 year old nephew would understand why Torres was rested...

[112-1077774096]

We only have two strikers Torres and Babel if only that tactical genius that calls himself Rafa would figure that out then we could maybe start winning. Plus why the hell was Torres rested last night, anybody have any insight into this latest tactical masterstroke from Rafa? F%&k me I'm getting tired of Rafa now. That's 3 losses on the bounce now and people still think we can win the league!! Until we get rid of Rafa the only thing we have a chance of winning is the champions league but then again that's all Rafa is interested in anyway isn't it so that he can promote himself to the job at Real Madrid.

you are so clueless that my 8 year old nephew would understand why Torres was rested...

maybe your 8 year old nephew can also give us insight as to why we played a weakened team in a cup quarter final against a team who are currently one of the top sides in europe (2 semis in 3 years) and have won the league twice in the last 3 years, just wondering if he can shed any light on it because for the life of me i can't

[stmichael]

i see rafa's come out today and said that we won't be selling crouch in january which makes sense to me. i still think he'll be off in the summer though and as long as we get a decent fee, i think it'll be good business.

[account deleted by request]

i see rafa's come out today and said that we won't be selling crouch in january which makes sense to me. i still think he'll be off in the summer though and as long as we get a decent fee, i think it'll be good business.

I am presuming the reason Rafa has said he's not selling anyone, is that he's not getting the money he would require to bring in the top players that would really improve the team. I hope I am wrong but I think we may only be getting a cheap defender (not bad just cheap) in the transfer window, and maybe a couple more youth players.

[Foximus]

i see rafa's come out today and said that we won't be selling crouch in january which makes sense to me. i still think he'll be off in the summer though and as long as we get a decent fee, i think it'll be good business.

I am presuming the reason Rafa has said he's not selling anyone, is that he's not getting the money he would require to bring in the top players that would really improve the team. I hope I am wrong but I think we may only be getting a cheap defender (not bad just cheap) in the transfer window, and maybe a couple more youth players.

I agree, but i also think that any offer for Voronin should be taken and we should be rid of the dead wood.  Kuyt and Crouch are still in my 50/50 boat, im not sure if a cheap transfer would suffice because it would be bad business and we need someone to play with Torres.(and dont say Babel)