Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Considering we lost Suarez he has done a great job.

[Thommo's perm]

He lost the best player weve had in recent history and his striker was crocked for months, so he had to put a makeshift attacking force together and wait for new players to bed in. He lost his skipper then stumbled on a back three by accident, and has had nothing to do with key players finding form. When we were losing he was sh'it. Now we are winning hes lucky. Yet we are in 2 cup competitions and 2 points off 4th
You could not make it up

[RedAnt]

I'm sorry RedAnt, you're talking about perspective and patience to see what happens but you and the rest of the critics weren't taking your time to jump the gun on Rodgers earlier in the season were you? While some of us were asking for perspective and patience for the new team to settle in and give a bit of time to the man who brought us closer to winning the league than any manager in 20 years, you people didn't want to hear it, so you can't ask the people that were on the other side of the argument to settle down now that things are finally going our way.

You were in the wrong then as people who think that we're out of the hole that we've dug for ourselves now, so you're no different.

Hmm, not really a fair assessment of my stance, mate. I called for patience with Kenny and he wasn't afforded it. I'd never really been aware of BR before he joined us so wasn't enthused by his appointment. I've never called for him to be sacked though. But on seeing his management style I'm even less enthused. He makes bizarre decisions, doesn't plan ahead, sells his players out to the press and constantly baffles me with his press handling. He's not yet proven anything with us. Last year was good, this season started badly and has become average. We have a chance now to go onwards and upwards but we've already lost much this season. The only perspective I'm asking for is that people realise we've not won anything yet, so what are we cheering for? Be encouraged, sure, but like I said, it's not time yet to demand people eat humble pie. I expect much, much more from BR before I think we've turned a corner. The first half performance this season is exactly why we need a strong second half of the season, so it balances out.

Pro-Rodgers 1-1 Anti-Rodgers.

So yeah, let's keep the humble pie for another day.

I'd say it's 0-0, both parties were/are wrong and too fast to jump the gun, so neither have "scored" yet. The Anti-Rodgers called for his head way too soon and it's also still too early for the Pro-Rodgers to start cheering. I'm a Pro-Rodgers but I agree with you, it's way too early to be calling for people to eat humble pies, there's still a lot of work to be done.

But the way some of the Anti-Rodgers were going on earlier in the season you can't really fault the other party for raising their voice now.

Well I agree with you on that. If a person makes a point, another makes a counter point and so on until the original point is forgotten and people talk only about the last point they read. It's how discussion forums work I suppose.
I'm not anti-Rodgers as such. I'm not emotionally involved enough to be. I just don't like him and I'm not convinced he's the right man for the job. My biggest gripe is the way he deals with his players. I'm not sure his style fits the LFC philosophy. People here will call for loyalty to BR but his own loyalty to the players is VERY questionable and his loyalty to the badge has yet to be truly tested.

[RedAnt]

He lost the best player weve had in recent history and his striker was crocked for months, so he had to put a makeshift attacking force together and wait for new players to bed in. He lost his skipper then stumbled on a back three by accident, and has had nothing to do with key players finding form. When we were losing he was sh'it. Now we are winning hes lucky. Yet we are in 2 cup competitions and 2 points off 4th
You could not make it up

See, a post cheering that we're in two cup competitions whilst failing to mention our woeful CL campaign. A mention of players lost/injured but no mention of a failure to have any form of contingency plan. Mind, we didn't need a contingency plan for Suarez. Against the Saints we had two strikers on the bench and none on the pitch. I imagine that was BR's plan all along and is why Suarez wasn't replaced?

[Thommo's perm]

Sh'it happens? Instead of people moaning like arl women just support the manager and the players and see where it gets us?
Who would these moaners want to replace Rodgers? Any names in mind of this genius who will win us the Premiership and Champions League?

[RedAnt]

I'm not sure what you mean, Thommo. I'm not asking for Rodgers to be replaced. Who would you replace him with? I'm saying I don't like Rodgers and I don't think he's the man for the job. That's my opinion as a fan. I'll leave the administration to the professionals.
That said, given time and the money that BR has spent I reckon Kenny could have delivered something. I'm not going to go over every point ever made against Brendan, but the fee received for Suarez coupled with the freeing up of whatever huge fee he was paid, one might expect a little more than what we've seen. Rodgers isn't the first manager to use a false 9. It's very rarely used though and for good reason. At the moment, results-wise it's working for us. I doubt it will last though and I doubt it will win us the league and certainly won't win us the CL since we whimpered out of that.
It's surprising how differently fans percieve BR. Half think he's a genius, pulling rabbits out of hats and the other half think he's clueless, taking gambles and patting himself in the back when it works and blaming his players when it doesn't.

[Thommo's perm]

Ive never said he was a genius? Hes a hard working, genuine and passionate manager who understands what this club is about. Sometimes he talks sh'ite, but who doesnt?
He has had his bad run, due to circumstances both in and out of his control, but now has turned things around. We have the most exciting team in the Prem, but this still isnt good enough for some people? They would rather moan and complain about what might have been. Yes we are out of the CL, but it would have been a struggle without Suarez anyway? You say you think he should be replaced, but dont care who by?
Bit baffled by what your on about to be honest?

[RedAnt]

Ive never said he was a genius? Hes a hard working, genuine and passionate manager who understands what this club is about. Sometimes he talks sh'ite, but who doesnt?
He has had his bad run, due to circumstances both in and out of his control, but now has turned things around. We have the most exciting team in the Prem, but this still isnt good enough for some people? They would rather moan and complain about what might have been. Yes we are out of the CL, but it would have been a struggle without Suarez anyway? You say you think he should be replaced, but dont care who by?
Bit baffled by what your on about to be honest?

I never said he should be replaced. But then I never thought KK should have been replaced either. I don't like BR and feel he shouldn't have been appointed in the first place. If that translates to replacing him then fair enough.
As for turning a corner we've already turned several corners under Rodgers and the majority of those corners have lead us nowhere. We're 6th, mate, and in decent form. It's no great achievement is it? The point I keep trying to make has been lost in subsequent posts, but I'll say it again: those that have called for doubters to eat humble pie should perhaps hang fire because 6th isn't our target this year, and the seasons not over. So perhaps it's wise to not to make such calls since there could be a lot of humble pie to be eaten between now and the end of the season.

[eds]

Ive never said he was a genius? Hes a hard working, genuine and passionate manager who understands what this club is about. Sometimes he talks sh'ite, but who doesnt?
He has had his bad run, due to circumstances both in and out of his control, but now has turned things around. We have the most exciting team in the Prem, but this still isnt good enough for some people? They would rather moan and complain about what might have been. Yes we are out of the CL, but it would have been a struggle without Suarez anyway? You say you think he should be replaced, but dont care who by?
Bit baffled by what your on about to be honest?

Unfortunately the criteria required to manage our club extends beyond just "hard-work and passion". The reason why fans have been so critical of Rodgers is because of the money spent in the transfer market and the little return that we saw at the start of the season. The tactical and man management errors he has made (to compound our problems) have also been discussed in detail, showing us he has many, many flaws which you and a lot on here seem to gloss over or just ignore altogether.

No one is denying he has turned things around, I was almost at the point of giving up on him in December, but I can honestly say he has surprised and humbled me on how he has been able to grind out results for the last 10 weeks or so. It hasn't been pretty, but he deserves every credit for doing this. And if he manages to get us 4th this season, I think he would have proven that he has what it takes to move this club forward.  The key word there is proven.

BUT we are no certainty to get 4th. When you look back at the magnitude of planning that should have taken place when he and the upper echelons of our club knew Suarez was off, it's simply unacceptable what happened over the summer and what transpired in the first 3 and half months of this season. I'm sure I am not the only one that has concerns that this might happen again if he was given more money to spend. It is so obvious that we will need money to replace Gerrard in the midfield, buy a solid goal-keeper and potentially another striker but knowing the way our club and Rodgers works we will just buy another group of 20-23yo hopefuls and do the same thing all over again next season. And we will be having this same discussion 12 months down the line. 

That is why there is so much criticism of Rodgers, it has nothing to do with fans personal views on the man. We all want him to succeed for the sake of our club but he needs to stop making the same mistakes we have seen him make in the past and that starts by getting us 4th and properly targetting and acquiring the right players over the summer. It sounds simple enough and we will always back him to do the right thing but no one can silence us if we start seeing the same thing happen all over again.

[kazza]

I think we are a young and talented group that will only improve. I think that we are a team that does and will play attractive football with a lot of speed in the team. Lallana, Markovic, Moreno and especially Can we're all judged as a waste of money at the beginning of the season but are turning out to be good signings. We cannot compete with City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Utd financially so the owners have had to be more creative and I think they have done that starting with the manager. This team now has a very good and young core, just missing a couple of world class players that can be tweaked in over the next years. It has been a revolution and the manager is responsible.

Last year we were a team wrapped around a superstar and we did everything we could to keep him happy but that is not a stable long term strategy, now I think we have a better team philosophy and not any manager could have handled the transition. Remember last year when Sturridge did not pass to Suarez ( and all the arm waving and public displeasure) Rodgers immediately subbed Sturridge? That was how powerful Suarez was that he was even able to affect substitutions, even though he was guilty of doing the same thing many times but it was more important to keep him happy. Well I think that selling Suarez in the long term will be a good thing for us as we have become a better " team" and Rodgers deserves the credit reshaping the team for the better. Last year we were insane offensively ( almost not normal) but we're woeful defensively and now we are a lot more solid. A world class striker, a good CM and a good keeper and we will compete with the best.

Rodgers is proving that he does have what it takes to take the club forward. The new teeth, new girlfriend and cr@p he talks to the media has nothing to do with it.

[RedAnt]

Just for the record BRs teeth, girlfriends etc don't interest me. But he's the first Liverpool manager I've disliked (well, Woy too, but my brain doesn't recognise him as an ex manager). And there's plenty of others don't like him too. If there comes a time when BR has lots of shiney silverware to back up his ego then I'll hold my hands up and say "the guys a d*ck but he's a winner". But I've seen nothing yet, other than a run of decent performances. But 2nd place last season and a decent run this season isn't enough, not yet, not by a long way. Not one you take into account how bad we've been. Brendan's performances have been extremely erratic. People are very quick to applaud him whilst overlooking a helluva a lotta cr*p.

[Boocity]

Also the big issue I have is our inept CL performances, we spent so long to get back into that competition and to only have one win in a group that contains such European giants as Basle and Ludowhatever is shameful and shouldn't be defended.

[Reg]

You guys are tough taskmasters... demanding league and CL success within 18 months when previous managers have failed for 25 years...... This isn't FIFA 15 y'know. 

[RedAnt]

You guys are tough taskmasters... demanding success within 18 months when previous managers have failed for 25 years...... This isn't FIFA 15 y'know.

Tough task managers=Liverpool fan, no? I'm not demanding instant success and maybe BR is a victim of last years (almost) achievements. Suarez got us into the CL, a parting gift almost. I'd bet that was the deal 'help us back into the CL and see where we go from there'. Well he got us there, then nicked off to Barca. Would we have gotten through the group stage had he stayed? If he'd left and we used some of the cash to replace him, would we have qualified then? Hard to say. But losing Suarez and not replacing him, what happened? As Boo said, we failed in a group with Basel and Ludoneverheardof'em.
We had a bad start to the season and the blame lies with BR. Now we're doing ok. Not great. But ok. We're not yet in our target position and it's far from certain that we will achieve fourth place.
We're one of the most (if not the most) successful teams in England but we lie in 6th place. We're aiming for 4th when once we were top dogs. I'll be happy with 4th this year. How is being happy with 4th being a hard task master? We won the thing 18 times. I'd say 4th was quite a low target for us really. And ya know what? BR is struggling to hit that target too. A tough task master would demand the league. Realists will be happy with fourth. Anything less is a failure.

[7_Kewell]

The Champions League was ALWAYS going to be an uphill struggle after so many years out. I'll admit I was disappointed not to see us break out of the group stage, but that's life. The important thing now is to retain CL status.