Job too big for Rodgers?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Is the job too big for Rodgers and last season was a flash in the pan down to Suarez carrying us?

Yes
43
55%
No
28
36%
Not sure
7
9%
 
Total votes : 78

Postby Kash_Mountain » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:23 pm

andy_g » Feb 25th, '15, 18:54 wrote:
Kash_Mountain » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:59 pm wrote:The Owners are not happy at all having spent a lot of money and not challenging for the EPL of CL. They are not happy at coming 4th. Maybe some fans are happy, but most aren't and the Owners are not. Promises have been made by BR, and they will not be fullfilled (coming 4th was not one of those promises).


last season we challenged for the league and this season isn't over by a long shot. this imaginary review the owners are supposedly planning strikes me as a little premature and baseless, to be honest. excuse my scepticism.


But Andy, it is happening. The Owners having spent vast amounts in the time they have been here are not happy with the results. They are getting ruthless, for want of a better word. They are taking the actions they see fit, rightly so if after spending £250m or whatever it is, there is nothing but 'nearly winning the league and 4th place' to show for it. They are not happy and started the review some months back. We'll find out the results of the review in the summer. I hope BR does accept the help he needs and can work with DoF (if the Owners do appoint one, right now it is looking very likely and is what they wanted from the start). They will not bow down to BRs wishes of not wanting to work to a DoF. He needs help. BR is a good coach but not good manager.
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Postby Kash_Mountain » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:54 pm

Kash_Mountain » Feb 25th, '15, 19:23 wrote:
andy_g » Feb 25th, '15, 18:54 wrote:
Kash_Mountain » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:59 pm wrote:The Owners are not happy at all having spent a lot of money and not challenging for the EPL of CL. They are not happy at coming 4th. Maybe some fans are happy, but most aren't and the Owners are not. Promises have been made by BR, and they will not be fullfilled (coming 4th was not one of those promises).


last season we challenged for the league and this season isn't over by a long shot. this imaginary review the owners are supposedly planning strikes me as a little premature and baseless, to be honest. excuse my scepticism.


But Andy, it is happening. The Owners having spent vast amounts in the time they have been here are not happy with the results. They are getting ruthless, for want of a better word. They are taking the actions they see fit, rightly so if after spending £250m or whatever it is, there is nothing but 'nearly winning the league and playing for 4th place' to show for it. They are not happy and started the review some months back. We'll find out the results of the review in the summer. I hope BR does accept the help he needs and can work with DoF (if the Owners do appoint one, right now it is looking very likely and is what they wanted from the start). They will not bow down to BRs wishes of not wanting to work to a DoF. He needs help. BR is a good coach but not good manager.
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Postby andy c legs » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:23 pm

Brendan has had a lot of money to spend, no doubt about that. I don't think overall that he's spent it wisely:- Aspas, Alberto, Borini, Illori and to a lesser extent Allen. This season he was hampered by Luis not being there - any team would be. The players he had brought in needed time to aclimatize and I think they are showing signs that they are now beginning to do this:- Markovic and also CAN who has been outstanding in the last two months. He was also hampered by the injury to Studge - who could have for-seen that?? It's no coincidence surely that in each of the last three seasons we have been stronger in the new year. Last year we nearly won the league!! Who expected that. If I was him I'd want total control over transfers only then will we see if the job is too big for him. Shankly, Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish all had that control and it didn't do us any harm (look at Hendo now - don't forget who signed him..)
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Postby eds » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:25 pm

Kash_Mountain » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:23 pm wrote:
andy_g » Feb 25th, '15, 18:54 wrote:
Kash_Mountain » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:59 pm wrote:The Owners are not happy at all having spent a lot of money and not challenging for the EPL of CL. They are not happy at coming 4th. Maybe some fans are happy, but most aren't and the Owners are not. Promises have been made by BR, and they will not be fullfilled (coming 4th was not one of those promises).


last season we challenged for the league and this season isn't over by a long shot. this imaginary review the owners are supposedly planning strikes me as a little premature and baseless, to be honest. excuse my scepticism.


But Andy, it is happening. The Owners having spent vast amounts in the time they have been here are not happy with the results. They are getting ruthless, for want of a better word. They are taking the actions they see fit, rightly so if after spending £250m or whatever it is, there is nothing but 'nearly winning the league and 4th place' to show for it. They are not happy and started the review some months back. We'll find out the results of the review in the summer. I hope BR does accept the help he needs and can work with DoF (if the Owners do appoint one, right now it is looking very likely and is what they wanted from the start). They will not bow down to BRs wishes of not wanting to work to a DoF. He needs help. BR is a good coach but not good manager.


If it turns out they are doing an internal review they are more clueless than I thought they were and we need them gone even quicker.

When you look at the net spend these yanks have put in over their short tenure so far (around 130m over 4 seasons), it comes nowhere near the amounts that the Sheiks at City (327m in first 3 seasons) and the Russian at Chelsea (291m in first 3 seasons) ploughed into player transfers at their respective clubs after taking over. Delusional is what I call a lot of you on here, but that term solely belongs to these dim-witted moneyball fanatics who are getting us nowhere with their idiotic strategies and expectations. Its fine when we laugh at other owners who think they can come in, invest a few million and think they can turn their mediocre side into the next Chelsea or City, but the same thing is happening at our club. The sad reality is that we have a pair of jokers that seem to have convinced you all that they are doing the right thing "investing in youth" and buying "statistical anomalies" at a bargain price to "one day" win us the premier league  :laugh:

A lot of you have been jibber jabbering about bringing in a DOF and/or other technical staff on board next season, especially after that article that was posted a few days ago. None of this nonsense will work if we continue to buy kids or cheap fill-ins and then sell our best players at a peak price (like we saw with Suarez). I have already argued ad-nauseam that Arsenal tried that for years and won f**k all, granted their excuse was building a new stadium and at least now they are now starting to spend much more money on single quality players (like Ozil and Sanchez), but what's our excuse........FFP? The wage bill needs to be evenly balanced? We aren't a London club? Players don't want to come here even though Ian Ayre is trying is darn hardest? This was our first season in CL for a number of years?  Please......... it’s f**king embarrassing at times……. :laugh:
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Postby Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:53 am

Does your net spend figure of 130 million include the 300 million spent saving the club from the real sharks in the story, Twit & Tw@t?

Sometimes you really do complain too much.....
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Postby eds » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:38 am

Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:53 am wrote:Does your net spend figure of 130 million include the 300 million spent saving the club from the real sharks in the story, Twit & Tw@t?

Sometimes you really do complain too much.....


Oh OK let's give them a pass mark for what happened 5 years ago and since then then let off the hook for the mis-management of this club.  :no

Reginald that excuse was old two seasons after they took over and a large number of lemmings on this forum regurgiated that same rubbish.

It's looking even older 5 years down the track and will look even more desperate as the years go by.......

Sorry I don't follow the happy clapper mantra that seems to upset you so much.

Funny tho, that you never seem to comment when I have something positive to say but sit ther sniping my more critical comments.  ???
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Postby Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:17 am

I forgot to mention the stadium redevelopment investment as well, add that to the tally.

I don't snipe, I just get peeved by your constant criticism of everything to do with the owners, Ayre and the manager. Over 2 years, it gets tiresome.

Football is flawed, the EPL is flawed (the economics simply don't work), the transfer system is flawed etc.. we all know that, it's whether despite all the obstacles we're moving forward. I believe we are, I don't see flashing red lights as I did under the previous owners when I complained loudly - or when Rafa was having a breakdown, during Hodgson's disastrous management, or when we splashed out on certain completely senseless buys (Carroll, Allen etc..) etc... we're not in that same situation anymore.

Club finances are solid, Ayres is growing the business and increasing income, we're redeveloping the stadium, at some stage we'll probably sell naming rights to pay for all that.

More importantly within the space of a few months we've rebuilt and recovered from the loss of Suarez and to me we've already got a formation that doesn't need Gerrard any more. So what is there to complain about?  This ain't happy-clappy, this is a pragmatic assessment.

The club is moving forward, we have a positive future compared to ManU and Arsenal who are losing momentum and Citech who are in danger of stalling.

Did I feel good 4 months ago - No. Do I feel good now - Yes.
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Postby eds » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:03 am

Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:17 am wrote:I forgot to mention the stadium redevelopment investment as well, add that to the tally.

I don't snipe, I just get peeved by your constant criticism of everything to do with the owners, Ayre and the manager. Over 2 years, it gets tiresome.

Football is flawed, the EPL is flawed (the economics simply don't work), the transfer system is flawed etc.. we all know that, it's whether despite all the obstacles we're moving forward. I believe we are, I don't see flashing red lights as I did under the previous owners when I complained loudly - or when Rafa was having a breakdown, during Hodgson's disastrous management, or when we splashed out on certain completely senseless buys (Carroll, Allen etc..) etc... we're not in that same situation anymore.

Club finances are solid, Ayres is growing the business and increasing income, we're redeveloping the stadium, at some stage we'll probably sell naming rights to pay for all that.

More importantly within the space of a few months we've rebuilt and recovered from the loss of Suarez and to me we've already got a formation that doesn't need Gerrard any more. So what is there to complain about?  This ain't happy-clappy, this is a pragmatic assessment.

The club is moving forward, we have a positive future compared to ManU and Arsenal who are losing momentum and Citech who are in danger of stalling.

Did I feel good 4 months ago - No. Do I feel good now - Yes.


I really don't understand why you get peeved, you are on a forum where fans will have different opinions and ideologies on what success is and whether we are on the right track or not.

Rather than sit their sulking like a teenage girl and throwing in the odd grandad insult which you have done in the past, everyone would appreciate reading more thought out debate from you. At least it seems I am getting that from you this time round.

Believe it or not I have been posting on this forum for a number of years now, including the Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dum era. I, like everyone else, saw what those two idiots did to our club and that raised a healthy level of scepticism in me after they were forced out. These new owners have done a a reasonable job so far in fixing up the financial, administrative and commercial side of our club but unfortunately that hasn't translated to results on the field yet and unlike you that's all I really care about. Not saying these things aren't important, I'm just saying they are not (and never will be) as important as where we finish in the league and the strength of our squad to compete for trophies over the next few years.

Agree with you that football is flawed, but that doesn't excuse our owners, executives and manager from having a clear strategy, direction and position in being successful in acquiring the players we are targeting. With the rubbish I have witnessed over the last few seasons UNDER the FSG tenure from Dempsey to Sigurdsson to Eriksen to Willan to Salah to Mkhitaryan to Konoplyanka to Remy and recently Sanchez, just to name a few the list is just way to long to not question what is actually is going on in the midst of all our player acquisition activity. Sure these aren't the same flashing red lights we saw with the previous regime but its enough for me to flag them as a yellow light.

And this doesn't even begin to cover the influx of kids and "moneyball" players that now mostly compromise of our squad. We hardly have any players in the 25-30 age bracket that are at their peak and that is what ultimately wins you a title or trophy over the long run. You maybe optimistic about everything right now. But what about over the summer when you see new players come in?  Or even in a year’s time when we struggle to finish 4th again if we continue down the same road? You may think that Arsenal, United and City are going to go away. They aren't. They will be there next season and the season beyond that buying quality and further strengthening their sides while we continue to trawl kindergartens and bargain bin players across Europe. Don't believe me, than look at players we will bring in over the summer to replace Mig in goals, Gerrard in the middle and partner Sturridge up front. They will be nowhere near what we need to strengthen our spine. We saw it last season and the season before that. It certainly won't be changing anytime soon.

That’s enough to make me despondent but because I love this club to bits I will continue questioning the idiocy in all this madness that you and others continue to defend, until one day you realise they just are worth defending anymore.
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Postby Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:28 am

Your problem is your style, you can't resist insulting people before you make your point. Folks understandably, don't bother reading past the insult. You do it again above.
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Postby kazza » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:41 am

Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:17 am wrote:I forgot to mention the stadium redevelopment investment as well, add that to the tally.

I don't snipe, I just get peeved by your constant criticism of everything to do with the owners, Ayre and the manager. Over 2 years, it gets tiresome.

Football is flawed, the EPL is flawed (the economics simply don't work), the transfer system is flawed etc.. we all know that, it's whether despite all the obstacles we're moving forward. I believe we are, I don't see flashing red lights as I did under the previous owners when I complained loudly - or when Rafa was having a breakdown, during Hodgson's disastrous management, or when we splashed out on certain completely senseless buys (Carroll, Allen etc..) etc... we're not in that same situation anymore.

Club finances are solid, Ayres is growing the business and increasing income, we're redeveloping the stadium, at some stage we'll probably sell naming rights to pay for all that.

More importantly within the space of a few months we've rebuilt and recovered from the loss of Suarez and to me we've already got a formation that doesn't need Gerrard any more. So what is there to complain about?  This ain't happy-clappy, this is a pragmatic assessment.

The club is moving forward, we have a positive future compared to ManU and Arsenal who are losing momentum and Citech who are in danger of stalling.

Did I feel good 4 months ago - No. Do I feel good now - Yes.

Good post
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Postby eds » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:52 am

Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:28 am wrote:Your problem is your style, you can't resist insulting people before you make your point. Folks understandably, don't bother reading past the insult. You do it again above.


And the rest of my post.........

Funny you mentioning insults, like you have never done that before  :laugh:
Last edited by eds on Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:56 am

I didn't get that far.
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Postby eds » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:58 am

Reg » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:56 am wrote:I didn't get that far.


Of course.
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Postby jacdaniel » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:05 am

This "review" is quite disgraceful if it really is happening (which i doubt) and if a DOF is hired we should all be really worried about our owners ability to run the club.

When they first arrived they appointed a DOF along with Kenny.  Sacked them both along with plenty of others.
Then they wanted a young manager to work under a DOF. 
Then they hired Rodgers and apparently there would be no DOF.
Then we put a transfer committee in place, were nobody seems too sure who is actually buying players.  Is it Rodgers or the stats computer program? 
Now they want a DOF again? 

If this turns out to be true then it will certainly look to me as though they have no idea what they are doing.  Jumping from one approach to the next. 

In football, when owners are referred to as ruthless... it generally translates into no idea how football works.
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Postby red till i die!! » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:44 pm

jacdaniel » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:05 am wrote:This "review" is quite disgraceful if it really is happening (which i doubt) and if a DOF is hired we should all be really worried about our owners ability to run the club.

When they first arrived they appointed a DOF along with Kenny.  Sacked them both along with plenty of others.
Then they wanted a young manager to work under a DOF. 
Then they hired Rodgers and apparently there would be no DOF.
Then we put a transfer committee in place, were nobody seems too sure who is actually buying players.  Is it Rodgers or the stats computer program? 
Now they want a DOF again? 

If this turns out to be true then it will certainly look to me as though they have no idea what they are doing.  Jumping from one approach to the next. 

In football, when owners are referred to as ruthless... it generally translates into no idea how football works.


The thing is jac that you wouldn't be surprised if it does happen. They don't seem to know a lot about football IMO and baseball is a very different game. Stats work in baseball but not football.

After Kenny they wanted a D.O.F and a new young manager, but the young manager didn't want that so they changed what it was they were after. Different story if it was someone with a proven track record in that area but it wasn't and they gave it all up to support the 180 page spiel brendan gave them. Thats all it took to change their course and they would do it again on a whim.

They are better Owners than Twit & Tw@t because they aren't borrowing from every bank on the go and using assets from the club as collateral but they have other things in common like not wanting to put their own money in and making the Club pay for their mistakes, IE: stadium plans they inherited and scrapped putting close to 50 mil back on the debt books. It might be interest free but its still debt. IMO things will look much clearer next year when the last 2 sets of accounts are published.

We have done well in attracting new lines of revenue through sponsorships and kit deals. We also have the extra Television money now, This should enable us to be competing better as this money wasn't around when T&T were here but yet their spend on the team is pretty similar in terms of net spend. Even though we have all this extra money we could still be in trouble with regards to FFP which is a joke considering they have been saying they were preparing us for this since 2010.And It was one of the things that attracted them to the club in the first place. To fall at the first hurdle would be some ***** up TBH.

My take on it is that all we did was some in house cleaning where we got rid of parasites and replaced them with leeches  :nod . Most will say jac that we almost went bust but that was never, never, ever going to happen. No way was R.B.S going to do that after they called in the debt and technically when they did we should have automatically went into administration and fell foul of the premier leagues rules,but we didn't because they took us as an asset and were never going to foreclose. Liverpool football club is renowned the world over and is a British institution and they were never going to pull the plug on that especially seeing as RBS was mostly owned by the British tax payer at the time.
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