Liverpool FC Forum

[eds]

Looks like the usual suspects are back trying to polish a turd of performance against the bitters and call it a diamond. We have a very tough run of games over the next few weeks and I'm already waiting for the excuses to come from Yakka and the rest of apologists when we begin to drop points left, right and center. That's OK everyone, like Danish Red reminded us all its about our performances in small patches like December and January that determine we are "going places" never mind the season as a whole   

Make no mistakes, this was another inept performance by Rodgers and a poor draw seeing as we should have battered them by 4 or 5 just highlights that he is not the Messiah that many apologists on here seem to be delusionally convinced of. The bitters are rubbish this season, bereft of any quality and Martinez will be a walking dead duck if he doesn't improve the squad over the summer. Chelsea are laughing their t.it.s off having pulled off the heist of the season selling them Lukuku for such an extraordinarily high fee. Martinez and Rodgers are both average managers that the media seems to fawn over simply because of their age, these were the only two individuals that the yanks deemed good enough to interview a few years back. And it wouldn't surprise me to see Old Roberto here at some point in the future once Rodgers is given his marching orders, don't snicker, with our clueless owners it's not beyond them.

If there is anything we learnt out of this game it is that Gerrard, for all his done for this club, can't leave any sooner. I can't believe we keep affording him 90mins when there are games to be won, if we have any chance of finishing 4th! I can't see clubs like Manure, Cheatski or the Gooners keep playing one of their ageing superstars to the detriment of winning the title or finishing in the top 4. Why we do it, is beyond me and just another nail in Rodger's coffin. The injury to Lucas couldn't have come at a worst time but at least it exposes the myth of how deep our squad really is, even with the money Rodgers spent over the summer. The spot light was clearly put on Allen and he failed miserably, again. I was in disbelief as that dopey-eyed mongrel Mirallas swatted him away like a fly time and time again during the derby. He is nothing more than an average player that should be nowhere near our club. And at a staggering 15m, only Rodgers can explain that travesty? 

Smile those big pearly whites Brendan and tell us how we are going to be force in a "few years time".

[ConnO'var]

Tactically  Inept,and regardless of media spin that he's one of the brightest young managers in the game ,I really would like him to disprove my opinion
that its all bollocks and simply an attempt by the collative of Rodgers apologists to blow smoke up our collective arses.

I agree.

[Boocity]

I agree with ethanr, this season was always going to be transitional and we were never going to be front running with clubs like City and Chelsea who were building from a position of strength.
Both of those clubs didn't have to sell their best player like we did and they didn't lose their main striker for half a season either.
Considering what we have had to cope with I think we have done well.

Funny how Southampton's transitional season sees them higher up the league and playing better football than they ever have at a fraction of the money we spent. 

[Reg]

No one is making excuses for Allen, we all agree he, Borini, Johnson, Enrique and half a dozen others shouldn't be anywhere north of Watford Gap never mind at LFC.

Liverpool have underperformed over the past 20 years there's no doubt and our inability to have won the league even once is a mind numbing disaster. But, we are still not top 2 material depiste last year's one-off performance. The Chavs and Citeh are better and Man Urd are a decling super power. Southamption are having a cracking   one-off season like ours last year but logic says they don't have the resources to repeat it. Arsenal are also declining. LFC, Arsenal, Ure are in transition, LFC upward, the other 2 in decline. Unless they fall apart which is unlikely, the 3 clubs will be neck and neck at the end of the season. In our case if we get 3rd or 4th this season having largely rebuilt the team will be a cracking achievement. Ure have one more season to reverse the decline before they become second tier behind the top 3. Likewise Arsenal, with the Reds are climing from that 2nd tier into the first tier.

Some people may enjoy polishing turds, but at least when you're trying to polish your diamond you should be able spot the difference between and not think a diamond is turd simply because you're envious of his teeth.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I agree with ethanr, this season was always going to be transitional and we were never going to be front running with clubs like City and Chelsea who were building from a position of strength.
Both of those clubs didn't have to sell their best player like we did and they didn't lose their main striker for half a season either.
Considering what we have had to cope with I think we have done well.

Funny how Southampton's transitional season sees them higher up the league and playing better football than they ever have at a fraction of the money we spent. 

That can happen, I remember Ipswich under George Burley doing a similar thing, Moyes at Everton as well.
Some teams just have seasons where things go their way.

[The_Rock]

I agree with ethanr, this season was always going to be transitional and we were never going to be front running with clubs like City and Chelsea who were building from a position of strength.
Both of those clubs didn't have to sell their best player like we did and they didn't lose their main striker for half a season either.
Considering what we have had to cope with I think we have done well.

Hey Yakka,

You are one of the better posters in this forum. I actually like reading your posts.

I just want to know your opinon in this issue. IMO, Rodgers has largely been hiding behind Sturridge's injury this season. That is his "get out of jail card". Once Sturridge is back...things will get better. That was what we were all thinking. Well now.... Sturridge is back. And then.............................

...... It looks like Lucas might be out. And with the tough matches coming up (with Spurs, Man City, Europa cup games...etc ), If we do drop points ... are we gonna use the excuse "oh....look, our best DM is injured. Lets wait for him to come back and things will pick up" ? How about, if Henderson gets suspended or injured once Lucas comes back ? Another round of excuses ?

I am not saying you are the one making these excuses. I just wanna know your opinion in this issue.

It seems quite a lot of fans (along with rodgers) seem to blame everything else apart from his tactics/formations and player selections for sub-par performance this year. His 3-4-3 formation is alienating lots of players in his squad. Against teams which sit back...does it make sense to go with 3 CBs ? Wasn't the idea all along was to pair up sturridge with either balotelli or lambert so that we have more strikers to put away the tons of chances created by sterling, hendo and specifically coutinho ?

Our performance in the last 6 or 7 matches have been good.....No questions about it. But we have played really bad teams in that run.  How do you think we will hold up against spurs, southampton and mancity ?

[Reg]

Logically you'd be a brave man to only play 3 at the back against the likes of Citeh and Chelsea. You have to play belt and braces against them or risk being caught on the hop.

[Boocity]

I agree with ethanr, this season was always going to be transitional and we were never going to be front running with clubs like City and Chelsea who were building from a position of strength.
Both of those clubs didn't have to sell their best player like we did and they didn't lose their main striker for half a season either.
Considering what we have had to cope with I think we have done well.

Funny how Southampton's transitional season sees them higher up the league and playing better football than they ever have at a fraction of the money we spent. 

That can happen, I remember Ipswich under George Burley doing a similar thing, Moyes at Everton as well.
Some teams just have seasons where things go their way.

Mmm, cant say i really agree with that as Southampton lost their manager and a lot of their players including the ones who scored most goals, totally different to who you mentioned above, equally so you could use your argument about us last season.

[maguskwt]

I agree with ethanr, this season was always going to be transitional and we were never going to be front running with clubs like City and Chelsea who were building from a position of strength.
Both of those clubs didn't have to sell their best player like we did and they didn't lose their main striker for half a season either.
Considering what we have had to cope with I think we have done well.

Hey Yakka,

You are one of the better posters in this forum. I actually like reading your posts.

I guess most of the people here, know of my opinon of Rodgers... I just want to know your opinon in this issue.

IMO, Rodgers has largely been hiding behind Sturridge's injury this season. That is his "get out of jail card". Once Sturridge is back...things will get better. Well Sturridge is back and now what happens ? .......

...... It looks like Lucas might be out. And with the tough matches coming up (with Spurs, Man City, Europa cup games...etc ), If we do drop points ... are we gonna use the excuse "oh....look, our best DM is injured. Lets wait for him to come back and things will pick up" ? How about, if Henderson gets suspended or injured once Lucas comes back ? Another round of excuses ?

I am not saying you are the one making these excuses. I just wanna know of your opinion in this issue.

It seems quite a lot of fans (along with rodgers) seem to blame everything else apart from his tactics/formations and player selections for sub-par performance this year. His 3-4-3 formation is alienating lots of players in his squd. Against teams which sit up...does it make sense to go with 3 CBs ?

Our performance in the last 6 or 7 matches have been good.....No questions about it. But we have played really bad teams in that run.  How do you think we will hold up against spurs, southampton and mancity ?

I know your post is directed to yakka. But I just don't get your post. Rodgers did turn it around when he changed to 3-4-3 and that is before Sturridge came back. So how is that hiding behind Sturridge's injury? And how is his 3-4-3 alienating alot of the players in his squad? The 3-4-3 is designed to make use of alot of our creative players. BR has stabilised the defense and at the same time made use of alot of our creative players such as Sterling, Markovic, Lallana, Coutinho and moreno with this formation. So now that Sturridge is back, he is suppose to spearhead this formation. With an out an out striker like Sturridge, this formation is suppose to have more goals. The question now is, which I have highlighted in when Sturridge return thread, who will give way for Sturridge?

[The_Rock]

I know your post is directed to yakka. But I just don't get your post. Rodgers did turn it around when he changed to 3-4-3 and that is before Sturridge came back. So how is that hiding behind Sturridge's injury? And how is his 3-4-3 alienating alot of the players in his squad? The 3-4-3 is designed to make use of alot of our creative players. BR has stabilised the defense and at the same time made use of alot of our creative players such as Sterling, Markovic, Lallana, Coutinho and moreno with this formation. So now that Sturridge is back, he is suppose to spearhead this formation. With an out an out striker like Sturridge, this formation is suppose to have more goals. The question now is, which I have highlighted in when Sturridge return thread, who will give way for Sturridge?

Balotelli, Lambert, Manquilo, Allen, Markovic, Jorden Ibe and even Steven Gerrard......These players are either not picked or made to play in a system which do not suit their playing style. Balotelli and Lambert function better with a mobile striker next to them. Allen/Gerrard function better in a midfield 3. Markovic and Ibe are wingers/Attacking midfielders. Even Can....isn't it better to get him playing the Lucas role asap (as we don't really have anyone who could replace him when he gets injured) instead of putting him as a CB ?

FWIW, I don't really think our upturn in form is due to this formation Rodgers spent a whole night thinking about and later telling the whole world about his "Eureka" experience....

In fact I am pretty certain....our upturn in form is due to Rodgers finally picking Lucas in the DM role and putting Henderson next to him. And dropping Lovern for Sakho. These 3 changes made our team more solid and yes....I do think if we went back to 4-3-3 or the diamond...we would have at least got the same results.

I hope to god we win against spurs.... But I can see us doing badly against spurs if Rodgers just continues playing 3-4-3 and brining in Allen (or worst Gerrard) for Lucas's DM role.

I believe the key to beating spurs is to go ahead with a balotelli & sturridge strike force (ie...sterling playing in the diamond behind them). As long as we have enough attackers keeping the opposition defence busy, I reckon our defence might be under lesser pressure (ie...so less mistakes, more cleansheets....and mignolet continues to look awesome). Anyway if Lucas is really missing against spurs, lets just see how Rodgers sets up his team. This is the test to really prove if our upturn in form is due to a change in formation or just making sensible tactical choices.

Coming to the game against spurs, I would go with this formation

                                      Mig
            Manquilo     Skrtel     Sakho     Moreno
                                  Can
                       Hendo     Coutinho
                               Sterling
                         Balo   Sturridge

[maguskwt]

I know your post is directed to yakka. But I just don't get your post. Rodgers did turn it around when he changed to 3-4-3 and that is before Sturridge came back. So how is that hiding behind Sturridge's injury? And how is his 3-4-3 alienating alot of the players in his squad? The 3-4-3 is designed to make use of alot of our creative players. BR has stabilised the defense and at the same time made use of alot of our creative players such as Sterling, Markovic, Lallana, Coutinho and moreno with this formation. So now that Sturridge is back, he is suppose to spearhead this formation. With an out an out striker like Sturridge, this formation is suppose to have more goals. The question now is, which I have highlighted in when Sturridge return thread, who will give way for Sturridge?

Balotelli, Lambert, Manquilo, Allen, Markovic, Jorden Ibe and even Steven Gerrard......These players are either not picked or made to play in a system which do not suit their playing style. Balotelli and Lambert function better with a mobile striker next to them. Allen/Gerrard function better in a midfield 3. Markovic and Ibe are wingers/Attacking midfielders. Even Can....isn't it better to get him playing the Lucas role asap (as we don't really have anyone who could replace him when he gets injured) instead of putting him as a CB ?

FWIW, I don't really think our upturn in form is due to this formation Rodgers spent a whole night thinking about and later telling the whole world about his "Eureka" experience....

In fact I am pretty certain....our upturn in form is due to Rodgers finally picking Lucas in the DM role and putting Henderson next to him. And dropping Lovern for Sakho. These 3 changes made our team more solid and yes....I do think if we went back to 4-3-3 or the diamond...we would have at least got the same results.

I hope to god we win against spurs.... But I can see us doing badly against spurs if Rodgers just continues playing 3-4-3 and brining in Allen (or worst Gerrard) for Lucas's DM role.

I believe the key to beating spurs is to go ahead with a balotelli & sturridge strike force (ie...sterling playing in the diamond behind them). As long as we have enough attackers keeping the opposition defence busy, I reckon our defence might be under lesser pressure (ie...so less mistakes, more cleansheets....and mignolet continues to look awesome). Anyway if Lucas is really missing against spurs, lets just see how Rodgers sets up his team. This is the test to really prove if our upturn in form is due to a change in formation or just making sensible tactical choices.

Coming to the game against spurs, I would go with this formation

                                      Mig
            Manquilo     Skrtel     Sakho     Moreno
                                  Can
                       Hendo     Coutinho
                               Sterling
                         Balo   Sturridge

You've got to be kidding me when you mention the manager should be making use of a system that can allow Balotelli, Lambert and Allen to play. Balotelli has been given so many chances in the 1st half of the season to the detriment of our results. Lambert is a squad player. Allen is Allen as you have witnessed in his performance against Everton and many other games before, he brings nothing to the table. Jordan Ibe has just been recalled and he played quite well in the 3-4-3 formation against everton. Steven Gerrard, with all due respect he is my all time favourite, but is going down hill whichever system he played in. In fact Rodgers can be accused of playing Gerrard in whichever formation he employs. Markovic was playing very well in the 3-4-3 formation. Manquilo could play well as a right wing back but i'd rather have Markovic there. Can is one of two reasons (the other is Sakho) why our defense is solid now, and the fact that we deploy 2 deep midfielders in this formation, whether it is Lucas/ Henderson, Lucas/Gerrard in the middle. Moreno is one of the more consistently good performers at the Left Wing Back in the 3-4-3 as well.

I wouldn't fix which is not broken especially since now the players are getting used to it. The diamond formation that you have posted is the formation from last season which Rodgers was accused of continuing and failing this first half of the season. In fact, I would probably drop Gerrard to accomodate Sturridge coming back. Lucas/ Henderson pairing is a more solid pairing. If the defence is not conceding there is always a chance to go on and win it. But since Coutinho, Sterling, Lucas and Lallana are now serious doubts against Spurs I wouldn't be surprised if there are some changes in the line-up, especially like you mentioned putting Can as DM. But I'd rather keep the formation, I would go with:

                         Mignolet
             Lovren    Skrtle     Sakho
     Markovic     Henderson  Can    Moreno
        Coutinho/Sterling          Ibe
                           Sturridge

Here I'm hoping either one of Coutinho/Sterling/ Lallana is fit. If all 3 of them are not fit, we're pretty much screwed. The 3 CB's and the 2 deep midfielders, Henderson and Can should provide a solid and defensive platform. Markovic, Moreno are the runners creativitiy as well as cover. Coutinho/ Sterling, Ibe and Sturridge are the creative and goal scoring threats.

If everyone was fit I would go with this line-up:

                         Mignolet
             Can        Skrtle     Sakho
     Markovic     Henderson  Lucas    Moreno
             Coutinho/Ibe          Sterling/ Lallana
                           Sturridge

Yes, no place for Gerrard, Balotelli, Lovren nor Lambert.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

I agree with ethanr, this season was always going to be transitional and we were never going to be front running with clubs like City and Chelsea who were building from a position of strength.
Both of those clubs didn't have to sell their best player like we did and they didn't lose their main striker for half a season either.
Considering what we have had to cope with I think we have done well.

Hey Yakka,

You are one of the better posters in this forum. I actually like reading your posts.

I just want to know your opinon in this issue. IMO, Rodgers has largely been hiding behind Sturridge's injury this season. That is his "get out of jail card". Once Sturridge is back...things will get better. That was what we were all thinking. Well now.... Sturridge is back. And then.............................

...... It looks like Lucas might be out. And with the tough matches coming up (with Spurs, Man City, Europa cup games...etc ), If we do drop points ... are we gonna use the excuse "oh....look, our best DM is injured. Lets wait for him to come back and things will pick up" ? How about, if Henderson gets suspended or injured once Lucas comes back ? Another round of excuses ?

I am not saying you are the one making these excuses. I just wanna know your opinion in this issue.

It seems quite a lot of fans (along with rodgers) seem to blame everything else apart from his tactics/formations and player selections for sub-par performance this year. His 3-4-3 formation is alienating lots of players in his squad. Against teams which sit back...does it make sense to go with 3 CBs ? Wasn't the idea all along was to pair up sturridge with either balotelli or lambert so that we have more strikers to put away the tons of chances created by sterling, hendo and specifically coutinho ?

Our performance in the last 6 or 7 matches have been good.....No questions about it. But we have played really bad teams in that run.  How do you think we will hold up against spurs, southampton and mancity ?

I think it's a bit unfair to say that we've only faced poor teams in our good run mate, we've played the likes of Arsenal, West Ham, Everton and Swansea in the league and Chelsea twice in the League cup. Hardly push overs!
And re-the 3-4-3 formation, it suits us perfectly because it allows us to get more of our creative players into the starting XI, what's more since we've started using it our defensive record has improved 10 fold as well.
I can understand posters questioning some of Rodgers decisions from earlier on in the season but I'm surprised to hear some people questioning our recent form.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I think with the team shorn of Lucas ,we will either find out just how 'innovative' the manger really is,or how integral to this team Lucas is.
Spudz tomorrow ,so we don't have to wait too long to garner the answer.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Logically you'd be a brave man to only play 3 at the back against the likes of Citeh and Chelsea. You have to play belt and braces against them or risk being caught on the hop.

Did we not play City with four at the back ,and yes we looked resplendent in our failure to make the final ,but when alls said and done it was 'failure' nonetheless.

It takes a brave man to overlook Lucas for so long.
it takes a brave man to drop Can for 8 games after an arguably man of the match performance against Chelsea.
It takes great courage to persist with Gerrard chasing shadows in a role he was clearly not cut out for.
It takes a brave man to play Joe Allen period !
It takes a brave man to blame all our woes in defence on the custodian betwixt our sticks.
It takes a brave man to blame all our profligacy in front of goal on Ballotelli.
It takes a brave man to profess he was up all night thinking of a new formation months after our exit from the Champions league.
It takes a brave man to wear a scarf indoors.
Lastly ,it takes tremendous bravery to stay on the sun bed longer than Jodie Marsh 

[maguskwt]

Some people may enjoy polishing turds, but at least when you're trying to polish your diamond you should be able spot the difference between and not think a diamond is turd simply because you're envious of his teeth.

What the F... are you saying Reg?