Liverpool FC Forum

[shabelle50]

No ability at creating chances, getting forward or doing anything other than breaking up the opposition attacks.

Exactly, world class he was.

A player like him would never have got into the team of the mid late 80s under Fagen or Dalglish, which says it all about the type of players Benitez brought to Anfield. Good riddance to Mascherano and his former manager, who was actually the one that failed to deliver on the new contract or the move to Barca last summer yet apparently he saved his career.

That's an interesting thought Shabelle. How would Masch have faired had he been in the squad in '87-88?

There's no doubt football's changed since then - the holding midfielder role wasn't as important, and having one midfielder  dedicated to regaining possession and defensive duties wasn't required. I suppose he'd be in competition with Whelan, McMahon and Molby. Feck it, thats the best team I've ever seen so he probably wouldn't have got anywhere near it but it's an interesting thought. Masch in behind Barnes, Houghton, Beardsley and Rush, he'd probably have got bored because Liverpool would have all the possession anyway. 

Didn't Liverpool have a player in the squad who could tackle but do little else? Wasn't he called Kevin MacDonald?

Mascherano would have looked horribly out of place in the 87-88 squad. All Mascherano does is release the ball to a full back or Gerrard if he'd been in the 87-88 squad he'd have played central defence but nowhere else. No wonder he didn't get into the West Ham team, another club who like playing football the way it should be played.

[roysreds]

you let me down javier.

"Mascherano was great for Liverpool for three or four years and it was a privilege to play with them," said the defender.

"But he let himself down badly and that left a bad taste in the mouth.

"If he'd played in that match he would have got a great send-off and it all would have been fine.

"But he ruined that and I think he'll regret it."

he should've moved to birkdale the gimp, he was always in aigburth rd tesco with his missus. No wonder she wanted to get off. 

[roysreds]

oh $hit, ot wasn't his missus


"They'd promised me something for a whole year and they never fulfilled their promise.

"And that didn't have anything to do with my family or anything else. When you read or hear lies, you obviously get angry."

it was the club.

i really should read previous posts but i'm a lazy, sometimes incoherent ba$tard

[metalhead]

Aside from Gerrard who does that wherever he is playing, no one mate. We don't have anyone left of that quality. Poulsen? Meh... ok short term player but nowhere on Masch's level imo.

We just have to struggle on and hope we can bring in someone of his calibre again when we are sold. But what im most gutted about is that we couldn't get Toure to come this way as part of the deal. Would have been a damn sight better than what we have now.

I actually like Poulson and he was for me the only player who shone against The  Albion .... he gives an assurance in possession
but that said  he is a totally different player than Mascherano ...he was a one off there is currently no player in world football better than The little Chief in a defensive midfield position .... and unless the players are sufficiently fired up to cover his absence by harrying and chasing down their opponents then I think he will be missed more than people think ......

Agree with that, but I do believe Poulsen has better positional play than the little chief, sometimes Masch tends to drift from his position, but not with Poulsen

[Thommo's perm]

I agree with Ciggy, I honestly believe there will be many games this season where we will ask ourselves how differently it could have been if Masch was on the pitch. A player like him is vital against the better sides in the league

I wont
Id rather go down fighting than be stuck with some ar'sehole who doesnt want to play for LFC

[tonyeh]

I agree with Ciggy, I honestly believe there will be many games this season where we will ask ourselves how differently it could have been if Masch was on the pitch. A player like him is vital against the better sides in the league

If you didn't know better though Greavsie, you'd think we'd won the title by 15 points last season not finished in SEVENTH PLACE. We had Masherano all last season against the better teams and I don't recall us getting many points against them. We also had Lucas, who some on here will tell you is a player waiting to happen, and we lost NINETEEN MATCHES.

We weren't unlucky, nor can it blamed on other areas of the pitch exclusively. The central midfield area was completely disfunctional, and while it's probably true to say that at what he does, the only thing he does, Masherano is one of the best around, it's also true that most other holding midfielders do other stuff as well.

It simply isn't true to say Essien isn't a holding midfielder because he plays box to box. He is actually a holding midfielder who ALSO plays box to box, at the same time so to speak. So does Gerrard when he plays in there, so did Keane.

All last season we carried two central midfielders who's job it was to snuff out the opposition. Not only did they contribute nothing whatsoever other than that, they didn't even manage to perform their role efficiently.

Pure holding midfielders who do absolutely nothing else are a white elephant in modern football IMHO. If Masherano is going to play regularly for Barcelona, he is quite simply going to have to play much much better than he has done for us for a very long time. As for Lucas, forget it.

You know it's funny Mick. I was listening to John Giles a couple of months ago and his sentiments on this "holdng midfielder" nonsense pretty much echoed what you said.

To Giles, the concept of a "holding midfielder" was bizarre, as he felt that should be a standard part of a midfielders job, not the ONLY thing they are required to do.

The "holding midfielder" concept just wasn't around in his day.

I tend to agree with his assessment on the matter.

[maguskwt]

By doing that he can now criticize the club because the one who rescued him is not the club but rafa .

Mate . Try and let it go, eh?

let go of what Mick? 

[bigmick]

That's better. See, you can do it if you really try .

[maguskwt]

That's better. See, you can do it if you really try .

yeah yeah whatever... my post wasn't even about Rafa...

yup wasn't about Rafa was never really about Rafa

not Rafa not Rafa not Rafa not Rafa not Rafa not Rafa

[burjennio]

I agree with Ciggy, I honestly believe there will be many games this season where we will ask ourselves how differently it could have been if Masch was on the pitch. A player like him is vital against the better sides in the league

If you didn't know better though Greavsie, you'd think we'd won the title by 15 points last season not finished in SEVENTH PLACE. We had Masherano all last season against the better teams and I don't recall us getting many points against them. We also had Lucas, who some on here will tell you is a player waiting to happen, and we lost NINETEEN MATCHES.

We weren't unlucky, nor can it blamed on other areas of the pitch exclusively. The central midfield area was completely disfunctional, and while it's probably true to say that at what he does, the only thing he does, Masherano is one of the best around, it's also true that most other holding midfielders do other stuff as well.

It simply isn't true to say Essien isn't a holding midfielder because he plays box to box. He is actually a holding midfielder who ALSO plays box to box, at the same time so to speak. So does Gerrard when he plays in there, so did Keane.

All last season we carried two central midfielders who's job it was to snuff out the opposition. Not only did they contribute nothing whatsoever other than that, they didn't even manage to perform their role efficiently.

Pure holding midfielders who do absolutely nothing else are a white elephant in modern football IMHO. If Masherano is going to play regularly for Barcelona, he is quite simply going to have to play much much better than he has done for us for a very long time. As for Lucas, forget it.

You know it's funny Mick. I was listening to John Giles a couple of months ago and his sentiments on this "holdng midfielder" nonsense pretty much echoed what you said.

To Giles, the concept of a "holding midfielder" was bizarre, as he felt that should be a standard part of a midfielders job, not the ONLY thing they are required to do.

The "holding midfielder" concept just wasn't around in his day.

I tend to agree with his assessment on the matter.

Ever notice its the old timers in the media who are banging on about the lack of need for the defensive midfielder and why 442 is just so much more attacking and therefore better than a 451? Its because they still view the game in the same light they did when they were playing, without understanding that the game has always and continues to evolve. From the Brazil 424 in the 1970 WC to the Dutch 433 to the classic 442 of the 80s to the short run 352 of the mid 90s to the current 451/4231 hybrid that almost every major force in world football both club and international currently use. The votes are in guys, 451 is far more successful in the modern area than the 442, probably to do with the incredible fitness of the modern athlete more then any other reason, the players run all day and that holding player gives them the freedom to do so, its no coincidence that every successful team not only has that holding player but at least one maurading fullback that gets up and down the pitch relentlessly for 90mins.

EDIT: Im not saying that Mick is an old timer, I mean the pundits on the TV and radio!

[bigmick]

I don't think there's any doubt that teams these days like to have a sitter, simply because todays fullbacks are much more attacking than they ever have been. Wingers are becoming a thing of the past in modern football as wide midfielders are asked to tuck in so as to give the likes of Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson the room to bomb on.

The issue however is what else we ask a sitter to do. We had two sitters last season, and look where it got us. Not only did we create almost nothing in many matches, but we didn't even succeed in snuffing out the opposition either. Neither did the "little chief" snuff out Germany and Memut Ozil in the World Cup either.

Modern footballers need to be multi functional. Masherano isn't, and although we got dicked on the fee, I also think longer term that we got good money for him.

[maguskwt]

we might not be as 'dicked' for the fee as previously thought. Maybe just half a length dicked, not the full length... 

[devaney]

Aside from Gerrard who does that wherever he is playing, no one mate. We don't have anyone left of that quality. Poulsen? Meh... ok short term player but nowhere on Masch's level imo.

We just have to struggle on and hope we can bring in someone of his calibre again when we are sold. But what im most gutted about is that we couldn't get Toure to come this way as part of the deal. Would have been a damn sight better than what we have now.

I actually like Poulson and he was for me the only player who shone against The  Albion .... he gives an assurance in possession
but that said  he is a totally different player than Mascherano ...he was a one off there is currently no player in world football better than The little Chief in a defensive midfield position .... and unless the players are sufficiently fired up to cover his absence by harrying and chasing down their opponents then I think he will be missed more than people think ......

Essien is streets ahead of Mascherano in every department.Just what did Mascherano offer other than a fifth defender when we were up against the very top teams.

Even the sick note Aquilani looks out of this world on YouTube!

[burjennio]

Essien is a world class player, he is certainly a more complete footballer than Mascherano, personally I think hes on a par with Stevie as the best "total"  central midfielder in the world, he just seems to be very unlucky with bad injuries and ends up missing months at a time where Stevie has been thankfully for us relatively injury free over the years. I think Mascha is at his best when he has a partner that can spread play ala Alonso or drive forward ala Gerrard, not paired with Lucas when they are trying to do too similar a job but it doesnt matter one iota if you have to play a skinny kid up front who cant hold up the ball for toffee and your wide players show no movement or urgency like we saw far too much last season and a few times so far in the current campaign. I also think your being hard on him in relation to Germany tanking the Argies in the world cup because that entire side when to pieces as soon as Germany scored their 2nd in the game just when Argentina were looking good to equalize. I also believe their larger than life coaches lack of tactical nous may also have had a large hand in that debacle

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I agree to some extent MH ....but Mascherano covered the whole of the Midfield with his runs ....he was everywhere the ball happened to be ,and this is what made him unique ,his energy levels were phenomenal ..... to ask him to hold a specific position on the pitch would have taken away something from his game
Mascherano's play  was all about power