Liverpool FC Forum

[Stu the Red]

Of course it will be his fault. His legs have gone and our entire team dna is destroyed by this. Our insistence on playing such a garbage player means true greats like markovic, lambert, borini, allen, aspas, lucas and many others are playing woefully bad or have had to be sold.

The manager is God and he will get it right. He's proven inIhis career the one decent season in the league were not down to the circumstances I mentioned and his spending of the money has been marvelous.

[red till i die!!]

he's had enough money to spend for us to be in a better position in his 3rd season as manager. we should have a much more fluent "group" at this stage but we have nothing like it. we look all over the place exactly like when he took over but then we had a player who would in the following 2 seasons become world class. he has bought nothing in all this time that looks like they will hit that level while playing for us.
during the summer he came out with some whoppers like we just dont sign any one, we strategically pick our targets, we only sign players who bring that quality thats needed to the group, this team isnt all about luis suarez, we wont do a tottenham.
granted we have a few injuries namely sturridge who is a massive loss and will make a difference when he returns, allen isnt going to make much of a difference and like flanno, wont start every week. that leaves can who no one knows if he is even good enough to start either.
last week he said he replaced suarez with origi but was forced to loan him back for the year and for me that was bad planning straight away thinking you could compete at the top with an injury prone number 1, a geriatric no 2 and a kid that had a few moments in a world cup. after all that he is still playing borini even after accepting a bid from another club.
are we supposed to believe that when all these players that we have out on loan are going to return and suddenly become world class ?. that isnt going to happen so for me rodgers is a manager who will always be working with youth as he will always be rebuilding.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Before we all get too carried away I think it's worth taking a glance at the table, we are only 1 point away from the CL places, 3 away from third and only 4 points off second place.
We all know we haven't been playing well but apart from Chelsea neither really has anyone else, and at least we've got the excuses of injuries and a tough fixture list, don't forget half of our games have been against City, Spurs and Everton (not to mention Southampton who have been one of the form teams).
When we looked at the hand the fixture computer had dealt us before the season started we all knew a slowish start was on the cards.
We are starting to get players back now and one or two others like Lallana are starting to find form, the next game we play our starting XI will look much more like the line up that took Spurs apart on their own patch and we may even have a new keeper soon too, let's hold our horses a bit and see what the next month or so brings before we start writing the season off as a complete wash out.

[Stu the Red]

Of the summer signings none of them look to be an improvement on what we had last season with the exception of Lovren but even he is struggling playing with the likes of Mig no let, Skrtel and Moreno.

Lallana is clearly a good player and will add to the squad but if I had to pick between him and coutinho to start i know who i would pick. The fact we spent 116m and still have the same problems and weaknesses without a magician to cover them up says everything you need to know about the manager

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Posters are writing off the new players before they've even had time to become accustomed to playing in a structured team ,Can's eventual integration into our midfield
will ensure some of the more impatient people on this forum are forced to devour large quantities of humble pie ,and of that I'm convinced ,as for 20 yr old Markovic it seems he isn't even being afforded a bedding in period like Sterling ,then there's Balotelli ,already written off by some ,because he's not the type of striker who can
conjure miracles playing in a team that afford him no supply.


Rodgers will have us playing again ,its only a matter of time ,he's too good a manager not to,and like Yakka has already stated we're only 4 points off second place.

[eds]

Ok, so let me get this right, five years after we nearly went bankrupt, you want the club to forget about being spending within its means and start spending cash we don’t have? And who are these “right owners”? You say you don’t deal conjecture, yet you claim someone else will run our club right? 

Regardless of what you say, self-sustainability is a ‘fact’ (as Rafa would say) and it’s not going away. You’re right about Man City not doing well, hence they got penalised under the FFP rules.
I also find it baffling that you make no mention of last season. If BR was so awful, why did he nearly win the league? I don’t believe it was just Suarez, as one player doesn’t make a team and I stand by what I said. Suarez had to go. There was no way back after he took a bite out of that Italian player and he WILL do something daft again. That’s not conjecture, that’s an accurate prediction based on his previous. I guarantee it.

However, your criticisms of BR are separate from the ethos of running the club. Has BR spent wisely? Who knows, only time will tell and we’ll all have to wait until the end of the season for that. But the doom mongering after just 7 games are a bit too premature.
We’ll finish in the top 4 this year and also reach the knock out stages of the CL. As for the rest, I don’t know. But calling for new owners and a new manager at this stage is sheer madness.

No I'm not saying we should be spending beyond our means, I'm saying we need to replace our owners if our "means" can't compete with the best clubs in the world. If you can't understand this then you really shouldn't be supporting this club. Maybe some ambition-less club like Villa or Newcastle suits your more.......The fact that you think Man City "aren't doing well" because of FFP when they won the title last season and will challenge Chelsea this season, pretty much epitomises how truly confused you are?

Self-sustainability under the FSG model is a "fact" I'm not denying that at all. But as I have argued with no proper retort from you it is a hugely FLAWED model. One that is destined to fail. Whoop-dee f**king do we MIGHT get 4th and we MIGHT get into the 2nd stage of the CL. After spending over 120m on players, I would have expected this as the minimum expectation 

So you want me to talk about last season do you. OK let's talk about last season, which player did we have that scored 37 goals, 14 assists and created countless opportunities for us that we are clearly missing this season. Which player was head and shoulders the best player in England and came almost close to winning us the title through his ridiculous talent. If Rodgers is such a good manager, why is no one talking us up to win the title this season? So many questions. Just one answer. Luis Suarez.

Unfortunately if we miss out on 4th this season, the delusion of Luis Suarez not "making a team" or whatever you refuse to concede will finally dawn on you just how important he was in getting this club back to where it belongs. But I don't think you will ever admit it. Certainly not on here.

And I'm not doom mongering, I think that Rodgers has a good chance of getting us 4th if we can keep Sturridge and Sterling fit plus can get Balotelli scoring regularly. My problem is more with our current set-up and that we aren't going to win titles or trophies (in the next few years) with the flawed ideologies that FSG seem to be brainwashing the likes of you with. 

[Stu the Red]

Posters are writing off the new players before they've even had time to become accustomed to playing in a structured team ,Can's eventual integration into our midfield
will ensure some of the more impatient people on this forum are forced to devour large quantities of humble pie ,and of that I'm convinced ,as for 20 yr old Markovic it seems he isn't even being afforded a bedding in period like Sterling ,then there's Balotelli ,already written off by some ,because he's not the type of striker who can
conjure miracles playing in a team that afford him no supply.


Rodgers will have us playing again ,its only a matter of time ,he's too good a manager not to,and like Yakka has already stated we're only 4 points off second place.

On what do you base that on though Red? Seriously?

I mean, was it ths seventh place finish in his first season?

Was it his superb tactical decisions when the league title was in our hands?

Is it his management, or lack of, of the Gerrard situation.

Was it his ridiculously poor investment in the team and the squad over the last few years?

To be quite honest, the only things that Rodgers has done well since he came here is help Flannagan develop. Someone posted a great post about Sterling (memory fails me, sorry, chemo brain) thriving in the shadow of a world class talent, now at 19, the weight of expectation is all on him due to us selling our best player. We may never see Raheem fill his potential due to this and making us play the ball on the deck.

Funnily enough, if your best player is a smallish forward who isn't overly quick but has great movement and skill and vision, do the simple thing and give the lad the ball. Not exactly genius tactical play is it? Do you honestly think playing Sterling in the deeper role was genius tactical play? Or maybe just that Sterling, Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge as a front four were unplayable on their day. With those calibre of players and style of players its impossible to play any other way.

When you have a player like that it galvanises other players, it makes them perform above themselves and offers believe, even when they're injured, your mentallity is different as you know if you can plug away till they return then you'll do better when they do.

We don't have that this season. Sturridge is a good player, but he's not world class or top class or any other description of class. Balotelli as good as he is, and make no mistake, the lad is a quality footballer who at times shows a magnificent touch and composure is so wrong for the "system" we play its beyond belief, not to mention Sterling is now being used in a stupid position which no longer suits him. He's receiving the ball too deep and isn't affecting the game the way he can.

All Rodgers fault mate, nothing I've seen from him and the clap trap he comes out with convinces me he's anything more than average manager who can get an average to decent group of players to play well on their day. My prediction for the season is 5th. My expectation before the season was first.

As for the money and owner debate, sorry but he's had f*cking plenty. He's spent stupidly on rubbish players and let one or two go that were real head scratchers. The only players i'd thank him for are Lovren, Lallana who we ridiculously over payed for, Sturridge and Coutinho who are now probably worth £40,000,000 between them and Balotelli who hasn't settled yet due to us playing the wrong formation and tactical shape.

The rest, aren't worth a carrot I'm affraid.

Remember Babel?

[Boocity]

LS had a fantastic season last year he has now gone and before anyone harps on about us being a selling club lets be realistic that it was going to be nigh on impossible for us to keep hold of him and considering his ban we did a good bit of business. We needed to build a squad and that doesnt mean going out and spending squillions on one or two marque signings but buying players that can help us fight on multiple fronts. I get fed up of people slagging off our players before they have been given a chance, we are only a few games into the season, lets see where we are and how we are performing at Christmas, Yaka's right about putting things in perspective, did some think we would be running away at the top at this time  . I also agree with RBG, lets give Markovich a chance, can some of you remember Sterling couldn't get into the 1st team before Christmas last season as his form was sh!t.

[Stu the Red]

I don't get why everyone avoids the issue and comes up with the chliche arguments that have no basis and foundation. Some of you may need hindsight and fifteen years to see players like mig no let, skrtel, lucas, borini and the likes are poor. Some of you may need years to see if a player is any good. You can tell instantly with class. You then compare Sterling to Markovic, Sterling was seventeen. The latter is nearly twenty one. A team full of Henderson types isn't what we need, we need better

[Stu the Red]

To add to that, its funny how these excuses that were being banded around for Markovic didn't come out of the woodwork with Coutinho when he first signed. Some were suggesting he was already the finished article.

[7_Kewell]

Ok, so let me get this right, five years after we nearly went bankrupt, you want the club to forget about being spending within its means and start spending cash we don’t have? And who are these “right owners”? You say you don’t deal conjecture, yet you claim someone else will run our club right? 

Regardless of what you say, self-sustainability is a ‘fact’ (as Rafa would say) and it’s not going away. You’re right about Man City not doing well, hence they got penalised under the FFP rules.
I also find it baffling that you make no mention of last season. If BR was so awful, why did he nearly win the league? I don’t believe it was just Suarez, as one player doesn’t make a team and I stand by what I said. Suarez had to go. There was no way back after he took a bite out of that Italian player and he WILL do something daft again. That’s not conjecture, that’s an accurate prediction based on his previous. I guarantee it.

However, your criticisms of BR are separate from the ethos of running the club. Has BR spent wisely? Who knows, only time will tell and we’ll all have to wait until the end of the season for that. But the doom mongering after just 7 games are a bit too premature.
We’ll finish in the top 4 this year and also reach the knock out stages of the CL. As for the rest, I don’t know. But calling for new owners and a new manager at this stage is sheer madness.

No I'm not saying we should be spending beyond our means, I'm saying we need to replace our owners if our "means" can't compete with the best clubs in the world. If you can't understand this then you really shouldn't be supporting this club. Maybe some ambition-less club like Villa or Newcastle suits your more.......The fact that you think Man City "aren't doing well" because of FFP when they won the title last season and will challenge Chelsea this season, pretty much epitomises how truly confused you are?

Self-sustainability under the FSG model is a "fact" I'm not denying that at all. But as I have argued with no proper retort from you it is a hugely FLAWED model. One that is destined to fail. Whoop-dee f**king do we MIGHT get 4th and we MIGHT get into the 2nd stage of the CL. After spending over 120m on players, I would have expected this as the minimum expectation 

So you want me to talk about last season do you. OK let's talk about last season, which player did we have that scored 37 goals, 14 assists and created countless opportunities for us that we are clearly missing this season. Which player was head and shoulders the best player in England and came almost close to winning us the title through his ridiculous talent. If Rodgers is such a good manager, why is no one talking us up to win the title this season? So many questions. Just one answer. Luis Suarez.

Unfortunately if we miss out on 4th this season, the delusion of Luis Suarez not "making a team" or whatever you refuse to concede will finally dawn on you just how important he was in getting this club back to where it belongs. But I don't think you will ever admit it. Certainly not on here.

And I'm not doom mongering, I think that Rodgers has a good chance of getting us 4th if we can keep Sturridge and Sterling fit plus can get Balotelli scoring regularly. My problem is more with our current set-up and that we aren't going to win titles or trophies (in the next few years) with the flawed ideologies that FSG seem to be brainwashing the likes of you with. 

If we miss out on 4th and finish 7th, then yes, i'll agree with you on Suarez and perhaps voice some concerns. But i'm not prepared to do that in October. I'm also not prepared to start the "yanks out" charge, as I think they have the club's long term interests at heart.

And there's no way FSG are brainwashing anyone, especially me. Not unless they organise me a weekend with scarlett johansson, then i'll believe whatever they say and fight anyone who attempts to disagree 

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Posters are writing off the new players before they've even had time to become accustomed to playing in a structured team ,Can's eventual integration into our midfield
will ensure some of the more impatient people on this forum are forced to devour large quantities of humble pie ,and of that I'm convinced ,as for 20 yr old Markovic it seems he isn't even being afforded a bedding in period like Sterling ,then there's Balotelli ,already written off by some ,because he's not the type of striker who can
conjure miracles playing in a team that afford him no supply.


Rodgers will have us playing again ,its only a matter of time ,he's too good a manager not to,and like Yakka has already stated we're only 4 points off second place.

On what do you base that on though Red? Seriously?

I mean, was it ths seventh place finish in his first season?

Was it his superb tactical decisions when the league title was in our hands?

Is it his management, or lack of, of the Gerrard situation.

Was it his ridiculously poor investment in the team and the squad over the last few years?

To be quite honest, the only things that Rodgers has done well since he came here is help Flannagan develop. Someone posted a great post about Sterling (memory fails me, sorry, chemo brain) thriving in the shadow of a world class talent, now at 19, the weight of expectation is all on him due to us selling our best player. We may never see Raheem fill his potential due to this and making us play the ball on the deck.

Funnily enough, if your best player is a smallish forward who isn't overly quick but has great movement and skill and vision, do the simple thing and give the lad the ball. Not exactly genius tactical play is it? Do you honestly think playing Sterling in the deeper role was genius tactical play? Or maybe just that Sterling, Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge as a front four were unplayable on their day. With those calibre of players and style of players its impossible to play any other way.

When you have a player like that it galvanises other players, it makes them perform above themselves and offers believe, even when they're injured, your mentallity is different as you know if you can plug away till they return then you'll do better when they do.

We don't have that this season. Sturridge is a good player, but he's not world class or top class or any other description of class. Balotelli as good as he is, and make no mistake, the lad is a quality footballer who at times shows a magnificent touch and composure is so wrong for the "system" we play its beyond belief, not to mention Sterling is now being used in a stupid position which no longer suits him. He's receiving the ball too deep and isn't affecting the game the way he can.

All Rodgers fault mate, nothing I've seen from him and the clap trap he comes out with convinces me he's anything more than average manager who can get an average to decent group of players to play well on their day. My prediction for the season is 5th. My expectation before the season was first.

As for the money and owner debate, sorry but he's had f*cking plenty. He's spent stupidly on rubbish players and let one or two go that were real head scratchers. The only players i'd thank him for are Lovren, Lallana who we ridiculously over payed for, Sturridge and Coutinho who are now probably worth £40,000,000 between them and Balotelli who hasn't settled yet due to us playing the wrong formation and tactical shape.

The rest, aren't worth a carrot I'm affraid.

Remember Babel?

Stu ,football has a habit of making fools out of the overly presumptuous ,its also far too early to write off the reds season ,based purely on conjecture and a couple of
disjointed performances  ...Scouts watch players for months ,maybe even years before being able to arrive at a decision ,or to ascertain a players potential.

According to Rodgers he has run the rule over all his acquisitions and stated he was looking for players with the character and belief to be winners,I'm prepared to wait
and see if such a profound statement has any credence throughout the course of this season ,I'm prepared to wait until it bears fruit ,because as Liverpool fans waiting
is all we can do ,rather than dismiss a players ability after a short introduction to our season and accuse Rodgers of frittering money away.

As for Suarez he was arguably the best striker we have ever had ,but to point to his contribution as being the sole reason we flourished last season is affording Rodgers
scant respect  for his transformation of this team ,and the football he delighted the fans with.

[Stu the Red]

Stu ,football has a habit of making fools out of the overly presumptuous ,its also far too early to write off the reds season ,based purely on conjecture and a couple of
disjointed performances  ...Scouts watch players for months ,maybe even years before being able to arrive at a decision ,or to ascertain a players potential.

According to Rodgers he has run the rule over all his acquisitions and stated he was looking for players with the character and belief to be winners,I'm prepared to wait
and see if such a profound statement has any credence throughout the course of this season ,I'm prepared to wait until it bears fruit ,because as Liverpool fans waiting
is all we can do ,rather than dismiss a players ability after a short introduction to our season and accuse Rodgers of frittering money away.

As for Suarez he was arguably the best striker we have ever had ,but to point to his contribution as being the sole reason we flourished last season is affording Rodgers
scant respect  for his transformation of this team ,and the football he delighted the fans with.

I agree it can do that to you. It can make us all look like right bell ends at times, but the reality is sometimes, somewhere, we've seen certain things unfold that give you experience as to what works, what doesnt and how the game works.

You seem to be suggesting I don't understand scouts watch players for a long time, they also do background checks, family checks, medical checks, family medical checks... f*ck, some clubs even do credit checks mate. I'm very very very aware of all this. It just seems like our club is to interested in all these checks and behaviours rather than signing a player for what we actually give a flying one about, that is footballing ability. Do I give a toss Suarez was a bit of a nut job? Not at all, as it was part of what made so special, its not as if he went around ending players careers or being a rapist was it? Obviously there has to be some sort of line, Marlon King types, for example, or Lee Hughes types, for me, don't deserve the time of day, let alone support. However, with Luis we weren't talking about that. That's now by the by anyway and irrelivant... (not the first time I've gone off on a tangent).

Rodgers ramblings about mentallity and all that rubbish are excuses mate. Simple as. If he wanted a winning mentality and model professional he should have signed me 3 years ago... I never give up, I keep going till the end, not scared of a battle and not affraid to go against the grain... fact is though, I'm nowhere near good enough to compete with the majority of players at that level. Not even close. Maybe the complete duffers in the league I'd have given a go to in a one off game in my younger, cancer free years... (or maybe not ) but the fact is, the players he's signed lack real quality.

I've liked Lallana for absolutely years mate, probably since they were a league one side, as I have Schneiderlin and its no suprise to me both have been either linked or transfered for big money, but the reality, Lallana is only a good player. He's not going to win you match after match after match like Luis did. He's not going to make a difference to a midfield like a Vieira or Scholes would, he's not going to improve a defensive unit like a Hyypia, Ferdinand or Cannavaro would. We needed that class of player this year and its failed to materialize. For what its worth, I think Balotelli will be right at home with Sturridge and they'll form a very good partnership. I think we'll still be strong in attack, however I think we'll score more like 70 goals this season rather than 100... and I still believe we'll concede around 50 unless a new keeper is signed.

Valdes? Is he any good? Not so sure? Can he be worse than Mig no let, I doubt it...

I looked at Liverpool's team last season and all good things have something in common. A spine, Liverpool's had an aging Gerrard and a world class Suarez. This season we don't have a spine, Gerrard is past it mate, we all know that. He still has something to offer, but should have been replaced this season. His role should have been champions league games, lesser sides at home and as an impact sub.

The spine should have been addressed this summer. Balotelli is probably the only one you could really say is part of any credible spine to a side with anything other than ambitions of finishing near the champions league places.

Players like Begovic, Schneiderlin, Tevez and a few others I can't even be bothered to mention who would have provided that spine are still at last seasons clubs. WHY? We have plenty of good and decent players. But players like Sturridge, Henderson, Lallana, Lovren, Enrique will not win you trophies, they'll contribute if you surround them with class, but we've failed, yet again to do that and we're going to reap what we sow.

And as I also asked you earlier, what did Rodgers do last year that was so special? I don't get it? Blow the league with 4 games left and the best player in the league? Rodgers is a loser mate, with him, we'll always be a selling club, who can't attract the right quality, doesn't go for the right players and flatters to deceive. You bang on about transformation, there was no transformation or style that he integrated. Great players give you that definition... which is why we played the way we did. To be fair to Luis, he could play in a long ball team and make them look good... Suarez last season was the difference in second and seventh, this season, I think we'll finish 5th, which to me is a complete fail. Going from 7th, to 5th in three years is hardly what I'd call a complete turn around.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I think being a Liverpool fan means you have an intrinsic sense of a managers qualities as soon as he steps up to the plate ...Rodgers is a Liverpool manager,not just by
title Stu ,because he's proved (to me at least ) that it was far more than just the influence of Suarez that shaped our season  ,although to experience such optimism
usually evolves with affording this great institution of ours  patience ,its a trait that is now practically ingrained. Rodgers will garner the plaudits again mate  ,and this
team that evokes such passion whether its scathing critique or lauding individual displays will always be relevant .

I'm sorry Stu ,I just cant feel the same level of trepidation you're currently experiencing ,especially when we're only 7 games into a season.

[Stu the Red]

I've seen nothing in 7 games that makes me think we have a good side with the exception of Spurs away, which lets face it, is becoming a bit of a gimmie with their performances against us.

I've also seen a defence which conceded fifty goals harbouring two of the main culprits, still first teamers, an over hyped kid at left back instead of an experienced classy full back, Gerrard is STILL in the side every weak at 34 and we've replaced Coutinho with Coutinho and Suarez with Lallana (not that I don't like Lallana, I do, but he's not better than pip, he's older and Lallana is never a wide player) and Balotelli, in the starting 11.

Baffling to say the least.