Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

Broadly speaking, I think it's reasonable to expect another proper title challenge, a run into the quart's/semi's of the UCL, a better run in the FA cup - say the quarters, and in the league cup I want to see some our better prospects given a run, e.g. Pacheco, Nemeth, Kelly.

A proper title challenge is one where have a reasonable chance of winning it, with - as a guide - five games left to play. There is the possibility we go close again but lose out, which could lead some - such as those who thought we spunked it last term - to think enough is enough. I start from a different point, though, as I thought we gave it an excellent push last season and that all things considered it constituted a good season. That is to say, I don't subscribe to the view(s) that Rafa made tactical errors that 'obviously' cost us the title. It's not much use predicting which mix of factors will be the cause of any outcomes for the coming season, however.

At this point in time I'd only go as far down the 'what if' path as to say if we're completely out of the hunt by Christmas, then very serious questions need to be asked. I don't think that's likely though, and there are a fair number of permutations all round (we could do a cup double/treble, for example), so I wouldn't sensibly give a set of conclusions on Rafa's future. There are some questions that are a bit early to address sensibly - such as whether Aquilani 'will be' a success or otherwise; there are others that are far, far, far to early to address sensibly and Rafa's future falls into this category.

Ultimately, you can only really make a statement in confidence after everything's all said and done.

[account deleted by request]

I agree, it wont be Rafa´s last season even if we finish 5th - the club has decided its course and has invested too much to change now.

Bring in a new manager and make changes, new players PLUS build a new stadium? Forget it! We´re stuck with Rafa whether we like it our not.

what a weird argument, are you saying that we can never change manager again. I hope nobody has told Chelsea 

Not in the near future anyway mate. If we sacked Rafa he would want a bumper payoff as he has a long contract. The new manager would no doubt want a hefty transfer fund to bring in the players he wants. No doubt some of the backroom staff would have to go and some of th players may want to as well.

All in all its cheaper to keep a manager who gets CL football most seasons than bring in a manager who "might" take us that one step further.

I would think it will be 3 possibly four seasons down the line before this will change........... unless we get new owners ,then all bets will be off!

[Dazzer]

Not in the near future anyway mate. If we sacked Rafa he would want a bumper payoff as he has a long contract. The new manager would no doubt want a hefty transfer fund to bring in the players he wants. No doubt some of the backroom staff would have to go and some of th players may want to as well.

All in all its cheaper to keep a manager who gets CL football most seasons than bring in a manager who "might" take us that one step further.

I would think it will be 3 possibly four seasons down the line before this will change........... unless we get new owners ,then all bets will be off!

I have to agree I can't see Rafa being changed as manager in near furure.He would have to have a dire season IE finish out side top 6 or new owners come in.I personaly feel we as fans still owe him another 2 years max to see if he can gives us the the 19th we all want so bad and if he can't then we need to be talking about this in detail. Untill then I find it very worring that we even going down this road so close to another season starting.

I suggest every one takes a deep breath relax a little and put ya footy socks on cos on sunday this gets real !

[akumaface]

The fact that what pi.sses me off about the owner is that we are seeing the other big 3 hasn't really improved. Our squad is so closed that it is worth investing in this year. With only couple of addition, for sure, we can pull away from the pack. This will only increase the club value. If worse case scenerio, we can always sell next year. But really not much risk investing more for this year squad. YOu can do the math as the 20million standard fund was never found. Rafa only able to buy from the sales of Xabi....I don't know how many times the owner had screwed us around...He had shown he is in it for the money only. They need to feck off...

oh for heavens sake, do you want the club to go deeper into debt or something? where the feck is this money going to come from to buy more players??? None of the top clubs have got a pot to p1ss in at the moment bar Real Madrid and they must be dangerously over-leveraged now. In case you hadn't noticed we are actually in a bit of a financial crises.

I think Rafa has bought well and if we can get a decent CB in as cover then we'll be alright, barring any major long term injuries. I'm as optimistic about the coming season as I have been for a very long time BUT if Rafa starts arsing about with weird team selections, over rotation etc etc again then yes the knives will be out for him as they bloody well deserve to be.

Of course I'm well aware of our financial woes. I'm not asking the owners to further invest any astronimcal figures into the club this year. To me, they had promised the 20 million plus whatever Rafa is able to generate on top. Where is the 20million the owner had promised? This 20million would certainly be a big difference in this year. For the creditors of the club, if they can see a positive return, I'm sure they are willing to lend more money. Again, this is only for one year and the fact that Gillette had sold the Montreal Canadien and should be able to refinance enough for this year squad. The fact that they didn't simply means they don't really give a damn and will squeeze, get all our cash and then leave the debt behind while they take millions and millions of dollars away while letting us fans to suffer. I really don't know when we will have a better chance to win than now. When it comes to finances, there is always a way.

[Reg]

I agree, it wont be Rafa´s last season even if we finish 5th - the club has decided its course and has invested too much to change now.

Bring in a new manager and make changes, new players PLUS build a new stadium? Forget it! We´re stuck with Rafa whether we like it our not.

what a weird argument, are you saying that we can never change manager again. I hope nobody has told Chelsea 

Its a perfectly reasonable argument, we dont have the funds Chelsea do, we have stadium priorities and we cant have a change of direction at this point. It would make no sense whatsoever to sack Rafa anytime in the next 3 years.

[lakes10]

I agree, it wont be Rafa´s last season even if we finish 5th - the club has decided its course and has invested too much to change now.

Bring in a new manager and make changes, new players PLUS build a new stadium? Forget it! We´re stuck with Rafa whether we like it our not.

what a weird argument, are you saying that we can never change manager again. I hope nobody has told Chelsea 

Its a perfectly reasonable argument, we dont have the funds Chelsea do, we have stadium priorities and we cant have a change of direction at this point. It would make no sense whatsoever to sack Rafa anytime in the next 3 years.

ok i will take you point but what happens if for the next 2 years we ended up with nothing and end up 5th in the prem both times?

[bigmick]

I do realise that the question is in many ways pointless as you can very sensibly say "well it depends really" to all the various nuances. It does. Sabre was dead right in posing the possibility of Torres and Gerrard both being injured, you could hardly blame the manager then if we scraped only into the top four (it wouldn't be a bad achievement on his part in all honesty).

I think though there are certain givens. For instance, had man Utd or Chelsea gone on a Real Madrid style spending spree then it would hardly be Rafa's fault if they won the league at a canter. Fortunately though they haven't, indeed out of the big four at least two of our rivals look like they are going to be weaker than last season. This applies particularly to the Mancs, as I think if you'd said to most Liverpool fans that they were going to replace Carlos Tevez with Michael Owen, and Ronaldo with Wigans Valencia we'd have taken that all day long. If we can get the same number of points as last season, it must be a possibility at the very least that the changes they've made will make them four points worse off.

Similarly, Arsenal who arguably weren't genuine challengers in any case have sold their striker and centre half. It would be a surprise for many if they were to win it, even more so than it would have been if they hadn't sold anyone. Chelsea have added a Russian fullback but look like offloading Boswinga. Pretty much a straight swap really so it's hard to imagine them being massively superior to the team we finished above last season, particularly now the excellent Hiddink has been replaced by Ancellotti.

That just leaves Man City. I'm actually far more respectful of them than most on here, I think they'll go well. Certainly over the next couple of years I think they'll challenge, infact they may even win it if they get a more special manager. This season though if they get on a roll and get some momentum, they could be right up there although I don't think they'll win it.

So given the circumstances, I'd go with LFC2007 in that we really ought to be able to challenge. Course once you're in a dogfight the width of a post can lose it for you, or a dodgy penalty so only the most anti of anti's would be up for changing the manager then because we didn't win it. Provided we challenge (and we all now know what a challenge is) and we don't spunk it, I'm all for letting the manager have two or three more cracks at it after this one (we probably wouldn't let him go right till the end of his contract if he didn't win it).

All in all though I definately think we will challenge, and you never know we might even win it given an even break.

[andy_g]

there are three very important factors that will contribute to us challenging for or even winning the league this time around.

the first is obviously having gerrard and torres being fit a lot more than they were last season and playing just about every game.
the second is keeping at least two of our three centre backs fit for the whole season. the back ups really don't look ready and i'm not sure we're going to get a decent 4th chioce in the time we have left.
the third all hinges on aquilani. if the guy can stay fit and if he is as good as everyone says he is then i think we have something very exciting to look forward to. if he can't stay fit and features in fits and starts then i think we'll be in trouble.

so if all these things go right for us i think we'll be there or there abouts, or at least i'd expect us to be. if all these things go right and we don't manage any kind of challenge then something somewhere will be in need of a good long and hard looking at.

[redhayesy]

I feel depressed as feck going into the new season, we needed to add atleast two quality players without losing any for starters, but all we have done is replace Xabi and Arby and no one of quality for other positions has been signed.

I am feckin p!ssed off at our owners and at the fact that we are skint.

Degen, Voronin to name a few are not good enough for this club and there should have been money there to bring in better quailty than this dross.

I am Dirks biggest fan but we should have brought in a proper right winger, another striker, another midfielder and a defender than can play RB and in central defence.

I am not looking forward to the new season atall it feels we where so close and now it seems we are so far away.

I could be wrong ofcourse and we could go on to win the league, lets hope I am.

why be depressed please don't be. personally i can't fecking wait!

yes the owners are a fecking couple of tw@ts we know that,the players know that, raffa knows it aswell, but the fact is untill they go, let's do what we did as fans last season an get behind the team & raffa, show that the football club is bigger than them an will always be. let the players do the talking on the pitch,the fans sing for the team & raffa -after all it worked brilliant last year, many games gave me imence joy an proud to be a fan of this great club of ours,none more so than chelsea away in the CL the day before the anniversary of hillsborough. what a proud night to be assoiciated with the club, the fans that night,the players together showed passion, emotion etc that the owners didn't even matter,they were insignificant that night.

i'm full of hope, an optamistic this season as well as any other.

yes i agree that their are players not good enough to play for this FC -degen,voronin,dossena & Lucas even babel.but for me, if they are picked because funds dictacte otherwise then as much as it disappoints me i sincerley hope all of them realise they will never get a better chance in life than to play when picked for LFC an need to show an give everthing they have. if not in skill but desire,determination,atttitude,etc as they will never get a better chance due to our financial situation.

feck doom & gloom, i can't wait for sunday the adrenaline pumping already!  COME ON YOU MIGHTY REDS.

[heimdall]

I agree, it wont be Rafa´s last season even if we finish 5th - the club has decided its course and has invested too much to change now.

Bring in a new manager and make changes, new players PLUS build a new stadium? Forget it! We´re stuck with Rafa whether we like it our not.

what a weird argument, are you saying that we can never change manager again. I hope nobody has told Chelsea 

Not in the near future anyway mate. If we sacked Rafa he would want a bumper payoff as he has a long contract. The new manager would no doubt want a hefty transfer fund to bring in the players he wants. No doubt some of the backroom staff would have to go and some of th players may want to as well.

All in all its cheaper to keep a manager who gets CL football most seasons than bring in a manager who "might" take us that one step further.

I would think it will be 3 possibly four seasons down the line before this will change........... unless we get new owners ,then all bets will be off!

hmm, has it cost Chelsea a lot to bring in Ancelotti then?

[heimdall]

I agree, it wont be Rafa´s last season even if we finish 5th - the club has decided its course and has invested too much to change now.

Bring in a new manager and make changes, new players PLUS build a new stadium? Forget it! We´re stuck with Rafa whether we like it our not.

what a weird argument, are you saying that we can never change manager again. I hope nobody has told Chelsea 

Its a perfectly reasonable argument, we dont have the funds Chelsea do, we have stadium priorities and we cant have a change of direction at this point. It would make no sense whatsoever to sack Rafa anytime in the next 3 years.

Now hang on a second I'm not saying we should sack Rafa, I do actually agree with some of your points that at this present time it would be dumb to get rid of Rafa, both financially and strategically but you were saying we can never afford to replace him which seems an absurd statement.

[account deleted by request]

I agree, it wont be Rafa´s last season even if we finish 5th - the club has decided its course and has invested too much to change now.

Bring in a new manager and make changes, new players PLUS build a new stadium? Forget it! We´re stuck with Rafa whether we like it our not.

what a weird argument, are you saying that we can never change manager again. I hope nobody has told Chelsea 

Not in the near future anyway mate. If we sacked Rafa he would want a bumper payoff as he has a long contract. The new manager would no doubt want a hefty transfer fund to bring in the players he wants. No doubt some of the backroom staff would have to go and some of th players may want to as well.

All in all its cheaper to keep a manager who gets CL football most seasons than bring in a manager who "might" take us that one step further.

I would think it will be 3 possibly four seasons down the line before this will change........... unless we get new owners ,then all bets will be off!

hmm, has it cost Chelsea a lot to bring in Ancelotti then?

Sackings cost Chelsea $87m February 10, 2009

Chelsea's decision to sack Luiz Felipe Scolari as their manager could cost the Premier League side up to £15 million ($32.82 million) in compensation.

Scolari, who guided his native Brazil to World Cup glory, was booted out of Stamford Bridge on Monday just eight months in to a three-year deal worth an estimated annual £6 million ($13.13 million).

Getting rid of Jose Mourinho as manager in 2007 and then firing his successor Avram Grant, a matter of months after the Israeli signed a new four-year deal, would not have come cheap, even to a club bankrolled by Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich.

The total cost of sacking these three managers could be as much as £40 million ($A87.53 million), a sum which threatens to make a mockery of Chelsea chief executive Peter Kenyon's oft-repeated assertion that the London club will become "operationally independent" by 2010.

LINK

[baldricks_cunning_plan]

And that was just in pies.

[Judge]

Nowhere on the thread have I said I want to sack the manager.

Yes, true, you didn't say it. And you even looked moderately optimistic.

But you asked a "what if things go pear shaped" no? Believe it or not I think if things go pear shaped, Rafa will be sácked.

And I have mentioned Toshack because he thinks Dalglish may be the next manager.

I would like to know if things go pear shaped (that's the title of the topic), and Rafa is sácked (I think it's a possibility after 4 years witout titles), what do you LOT think about Dalglish as manager.

Sabre yours was a sensbile post, and wasn't one I was referring to. I think a lot depends on how we go, as you say season long injuries to Gerrard and Torres would obviously not be the managers fault and would have an effect on our chances.

For me, my parameter is that we genuinely challenge and we don't feck it up through silliness. As long as both of those things come to pass, I'd be happy for Rafa to see out his contract. If we keep doing it right and challenging, we're bound to win it sooner or later.

TBH, i wanted dalglish as manager way back before they appointed houllier.

then we probably would be cheering 4 more titles, and extra european win and a couple of extra league and FA cup wins on top of we have at present

[tubby]

I'm feeling very confident this season for the following reasons.

1) I feel we have a more attacking squad which should help in those games where the opposition parks the bus. Yes we lost Alonso but he was a bit limited in ability when it came to attacking. I feel Lucas will step up this year and with Aquilani we have all bases covered.

2) I think Torres was unlucky with injuries last year. Him and Stevie only started something like 15-17 games together and despite that we only came up short by a few games. I think this year we will push them all the way again.

We are as strong as we have ever been in the last 10 years so for anyone to say they are depressed is just ridiculous. Yes we have issues off the pitch with the owners but people need to let go of that. That situation will either never be resolved in the way some here want or if it is to be resolved that way it will take a long time so worrying about it will do nothing to move the situation forward.