All the strikers are underperforming - So who now?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby teamleader1 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:34 pm

Some really good shouts,I think the Anellka on loan fits the bill,
hes got the prem experience, hes still young and as an ex player has a feeling for the club, considering the position we are in at the moment he would be a real asset, we can match any team in the land in midfield and defence but apart from Crouchy our forward line is not up to scratch,who would lose any sleep over nando and cisse being replaced, pongolle has promise but thats all it is at the moment,
I think a RM will be signed this month and Rafa will wait till summer and try again for Kuijt so a loan move now may be a very good option.
Cisse must be sold on, ive said it before that for 14mil you expect established world class players, all Cisse's proving is hed struggle to hold down a permenant place in a championship side, how dissapointing was he yesterday- the stupid fker was still on the ground doing his party piece of shaking his head and holding his arms up after ferdinand cleared the ball off the line, so when it finally dawned on the stupid pryk that there was still a game going on he was to slow to react to the parry from kewells shot, to me he sums up perfectly the difference between Houlier and Rafa.
Rafa seen right through him even before he came while Houlier chased him for 2 years.
talking of Houlier I reckon he was heavily involved in recieving bungs from the Cisse and other poor quality over priced deals he did abroad - its the only explanation!

IMHO  :D
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Postby KINGCANTONA1966 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:37 pm

SO YOU NEED HELP GETTING OVER THE GOOD OLD GLORY YEARS UH? THE 80'S HAVE GONE.....GONE! SO COME ON! YOU AINT HAD NOTHING TO SHOUT ABOUT TILL LAST YEAR WHEN THE REF HELPED YOU WIN/FLUKE THE CHAMPS LEAGUE!!

WHAT YOU ALL NEED TO DO IS FIRST:

1, GET INTO THE CENTRY AND LEAVE THE 80'S BEHIND

2, TAKE YOUR LIVERPPOL GLASSES OFF

3, STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE PAST! ITS HISTORY!!

4, STOP TRYING TO KILL POOR WAITERS IN OTHER COUNTRIES

5, STOP STEALING CARS, GET JOBS AND STOP GRANNY STABBING!!

gary neville for prime minister!!

why cant you lot get over the 80's? you have been a shitty team for 15 years now! we are rebuliding a new team we had john o' in centre mid and giggs a winger in centre mid and you still could'nt beat us!

stop relying on stevie (chelski rent boy) gerrard!! if he plays  so do you!

how many times have you lot won the prem?? 0......NOT THE OLD LEAGUE BUT THE PREM??

its like man utd v's spain!

SO COME ON ADMIT UNITED ARE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN THE WORLD!![B]
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Postby teamleader1 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:40 pm

KINGCANTONA1966 wrote:hello  why dont you all take off your liverpool glasses and see the truth? you are a middle table club! a couple of good months dont make you  good ! we are rebuliding our new team these last two seasons and you still cant beat us!you all need to get over the 80's!! and stop relying on stevie(chelski rent boy)gerrard!

we will be back to the top where we belong!! the BIGGEST club in the world

gary neville for prime minister!!  :devil:  :devil:

Come back at the end of the season when your eyes have been well and truly opened.
we took a lot more positives out of the game -and we lost!

says it all  :buttrock
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Postby stoney » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:42 pm

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:UNITED skintest club in the world 500 million in debt  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Indeed
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Postby Sabre » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:47 pm

1, GET INTO THE CENTRY AND LEAVE THE 80'S BEHIND

2, TAKE YOUR LIVERPPOL GLASSES OFF

3, STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE PAST! ITS HISTORY!!

4, STOP TRYING TO KILL POOR WAITERS IN OTHER COUNTRIES

5, STOP STEALING CARS, GET JOBS AND STOP GRANNY STABBING!!



I do understand that not everybody can be clever . I know many morons, some of which, are nice chaps. You can be a moron and actually be liked.

But a contradictory moron is too much. You come here to tell us at the same time to forget the 80s but yet you insist on old prejudices about Liverpool citizens. And you lie.

You come here to tell us at the same time that we should forget our past glory (that's not only not forgotten, but it's admired through out Europe) and you don't realise you're talking to the current CL champion.

You are an idiot. Your stadium is a field of potatoes. With mice and everything. Half Europe is laughing at you, and the other half are commenting how you are in decline.

Get lost, you fecking idiota.

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Postby teamleader1 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:59 pm

KINGCANTONA1966 wrote:SO YOU NEED HELP GETTING OVER THE GOOD OLD GLORY YEARS UH? THE 80'S HAVE GONE.....GONE! SO COME ON! YOU AINT HAD NOTHING TO SHOUT ABOUT TILL LAST YEAR WHEN THE REF HELPED YOU WIN/FLUKE THE CHAMPS LEAGUE!!

WHAT YOU ALL NEED TO DO IS FIRST:

1, GET INTO THE CENTRY AND LEAVE THE 80'S BEHIND

2, TAKE YOUR LIVERPPOL GLASSES OFF

3, STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE PAST! ITS HISTORY!!

4, STOP TRYING TO KILL POOR WAITERS IN OTHER COUNTRIES

5, STOP STEALING CARS, GET JOBS AND STOP GRANNY STABBING!!

gary neville for prime minister!!

why cant you lot get over the 80's? you have been a shitty team for 15 years now! we are rebuliding a new team we had john o' in centre mid and giggs a winger in centre mid and you still could'nt beat us!

stop relying on stevie (chelski rent boy) gerrard!! if he plays  so do you!

how many times have you lot won the prem?? 0......NOT THE OLD LEAGUE BUT THE PREM??

its like man utd v's spain!

SO COME ON ADMIT UNITED ARE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN THE WORLD!![B]

United were 1 minute away from  getting bood off again by you lot-
Dont even dream your the team you were a few years ago,

And grabbing a last minute winner in a game you were totally outplayed in only papers over the cracks, we know weve done it ourselves under Houlier mate. Your nobodies in europe these days so get used to it - did you really walk away from the ground yesterday full of hope or just glad you never got the hiding your performance deserved

Chelsea will win the title and we will finish second and you lot are yesterdays news  :rasp
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Postby Proudy » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:14 pm

Anelka on loan is a good shout. I'd wait till the summer, after hes had the 2nd half of the season to play, then maybe make a move for him on a permanet basis.

Having Fowler back would be great and a massive lift for the club, ok he probably wouldnt score loads, but he'd be a great option to throw on with 20/30 mins left.
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Postby RAFABENITEZ » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:22 pm

Taken from RAWK. This is the most sense anyone has talked over Cisse.



Djibril Cissé – Le Grand Enigma
« on: Today at 10:18:29 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Djibril Cissé is turning into one of Liverpool's greatest. Of course, I mean greatest enigmas.

I'm a big fan of Cissé, but if he's stretching my patience, it's easy to conclude how his manager feels. His inconsistency doesn't stretch match to match, but minute to minute. It’s enough to leave you pulling out your Mohican.

Cissé does some brilliant things: a great backheel, a stunning cross, a thumping shot, a burst of electric pace. But they are nearly always followed with a wayward pass, a simple error, a basic miscontrol.

His instincts seem at odds with his instructions. He's a frustrating player, but also seems constantly frustrated with himself and with the world (on the pitch at least). At times he looks like he doesn't even know what he's doing, confused as to where he should run.

It's like he's so desperate to please and to fit in with what the manager wants, he's lost sight of his natural game, and is neither doing what Rafa requests nor what is best for him. When he runs at defenders he seems hesitant half the time, and too eager the other half, and the anxiety sees him overrun the ball.

Cissé is different to the frustrating Emile Heskey, who I felt could be a much more effective player, and use his bull-like strength to greater effect; Cissé, unlike Heskey, is a natural striker: it's about the positions you take up, your preparedness to get into the six-yard box (even if you sky the ball over the bar), or to take a shot when only half a chance presents itself. Cissé has all those latter attributes; he's just not been very good at executing them.

Every time he plays, he feels on trial. It's his 'big chance'. He has to score, or he's out on the wing, or out of the side; and sometimes, even if he has scored, that happens, if Rafa, who likes to rotate his strikers, feels another more suited for the next fixture. Cissé looks anxious, lacking in confidence. Watch his goals for Auxerre, and there's a supreme confidence about him. But at Auxerre he felt at home, in his element.

His technique for most of those goals in France was sublime, his reactions first-rate. He produced all manner of finishes, from the powerful to the subtle and cheeky. His record, in a top league, was phenomenal. But he was the main man, le :censored: of the roost.

Cissé is a natural finisher, but one lacking confidence and I just don't see him ever getting it at Anfield. Without confidence, a striker will always look unnatural. If you only watched Michael Owen on his bad days, you'd conclude the same; but Owen has a more robust mentality.

I just don't see an ideal marriage between what Benítez wants and what Cissé offers; but Cissé's pace, along with the promise of what he might just come up with, tempts the manager. My view is that Gérard Houllier would have got far more out of Cissé for Liverpool; but that Benítez can shape a far better Liverpool than Houllier, and that's all that counts.

This is about getting the best out of the team, not one player. But of all the players at Liverpool, Cissé is one of those I've been desperate to see succeed, especially after his injury last season and the way he worked so hard to get fit so soon. I would love to see him scoring week-in, week-out. But I'd prefer to see the team winning, and it's up to the manager to field the best team to do that.

If Benítez went out of his way to placate Cissé, to offer him the arm around the shoulder as well as weekly reassurances (in the way I feel Houllier, who paid all that money, would have), it would go against his successful methods and perhaps diminish the aura the manager wants to create.

The point is that Rafa doesn't single out individuals for special attention. There's no favouritism, with the possible exception of his attempts to keep Steven Gerrard last summer, after he too failed to feel loved by the manager. The fact is that you can make an exception to your rule for a player as proven and as crucial as Gerrard; his performances for the club have earned a little leeway. Cissé's haven't.

Cissé's season actually mirrors Ian Rush's year in Turin: a few cup goals against weak opposition (Rushie scored five in one cup game for Juventus) but not enough in the league. Liverpool's record goalscorer only managed 14 goals in Italy, just seven in the league. His teammates were never quite on the same wavelength. How can the deadliest striker in English football in the '80s fail so miserably in Turin? After all, he was a natural, right?

As with examples like Diego Forlan, who went on to be the top scorer in Spain, it shows that finishers need stability, security.

I'm guessing Benítez sees Cissé’s ability in training, as in training a player is relaxed. Training is when you see the true player, in terms of pure ability, but it's on the pitch where you need to see how pressure affects that ability. If you can't translate it into performances on matchday, it's of no use.

It's about fitting into your environment, feeling loved (or trusted), understanding what's required. It's a number of factors that conspire so that when you step over that white line, you are focussed, relaxed and full of self-belief. Strikers who are not relaxed snatch at chances, try too hard. Instead of clarity in the moment, your head is a mix of conflicting messages, and you end up doing something that is neither one thing nor the other.

Despite his difficulties at Liverpool, I believe Cissé will go on to be a big success somewhere else. There is a hugely talented player in there, just dying to get out. But he will need another Guy Roux – a manager prepared to make him feel special.

But it does look like Liverpool need a new quick striker, to play off Crouch when Rafa is looking for pace on the break, given Morientes will never offer that. Sinama-Pongolle has a lot of potential, but it's not yet clear whether he quite has what it takes to be a regular, although still has plenty to offer to the squad. While far from quick, it will also be interesting to see if Neil Mellor's loan is to prove his fitness and get some experience, or a precursor to a sale.

The revelation by Sven that Michael Owen is unhappy at Newcastle was no surprise. In the summer I felt Rafa was correct to go for Crouch, because of the style of play and 4-5-1 system, and because Crouch is the kind of player we needed to hold the attack together. But now we play two strikers on at least some occasions (although when it's Morientes, he drops deeper), bringing Owen back has to be considered. I'd love to know what's in Mickey's contract.

With only a week left to the transfer window, it looks like Cissé will have four more months to prove himself at Liverpool, or for everyone to call it quits. I haven't given up hope, but I'm also no longer holding my breath.

© Paul Tomkins 2006
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Postby desperado0831 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:46 pm

David Villa of Valencia will be the man who we needed at this term. Jermaine Defoe is also vulnerable to sign for after mido will definitely commits his future at spurs. ???
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Postby Ace Ventura » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:59 pm

RAFABENITEZ wrote:His technique for most of those goals in France was sublime, his reactions first-rate. He produced all manner of finishes, from the powerful to the subtle and cheeky. His record, in a top league, was phenomenal.

Cissé is a natural finisher, but one lacking confidence and I just don't see him ever getting it at Anfield. Without confidence, a striker will always look unnatural. If you only watched Michael Owen on his bad days, you'd conclude the same; but Owen has a more robust mentality.

I just don't see an ideal marriage between what Benítez wants and what Cissé offers; but Cissé's pace, along with the promise of what he might just come up with, tempts the manager. My view is that Gérard Houllier would have got far more out of Cissé for Liverpool; but that Benítez can shape a far better Liverpool than Houllier, and that's all that counts.

This is about getting the best out of the team, not one player. But of all the players at Liverpool, Cissé is one of those I've been desperate to see succeed, especially after his injury last season and the way he worked so hard to get fit so soon. I would love to see him scoring week-in, week-out. But I'd prefer to see the team winning, and it's up to the manager to field the best team to do that.

If Benítez went out of his way to placate Cissé, to offer him the arm around the shoulder as well as weekly reassurances (in the way I feel Houllier, who paid all that money, would have), it would go against his successful methods and perhaps diminish the aura the manager wants to create.

The point is that Rafa doesn't single out individuals for special attention. There's no favouritism, with the possible exception of his attempts to keep Steven Gerrard last summer, after he too failed to feel loved by the manager. The fact is that you can make an exception to your rule for a player as proven and as crucial as Gerrard; his performances for the club have earned a little leeway. Cissé's haven't.

Cissé's season actually mirrors Ian Rush's year in Turin: a few cup goals against weak opposition (Rushie scored five in one cup game for Juventus) but not enough in the league. Liverpool's record goalscorer only managed 14 goals in Italy, just seven in the league. His teammates were never quite on the same wavelength. How can the deadliest striker in English football in the '80s fail so miserably in Turin? After all, he was a natural, right?

As with examples like Diego Forlan, who went on to be the top scorer in Spain, it shows that finishers need stability, security.

I'm guessing Benítez sees Cissé’s ability in training, as in training a player is relaxed. Training is when you see the true player, in terms of pure ability, but it's on the pitch where you need to see how pressure affects that ability. If you can't translate it into performances on matchday, it's of no use.

It's about fitting into your environment, feeling loved (or trusted), understanding what's required. It's a number of factors that conspire so that when you step over that white line, you are focussed, relaxed and full of self-belief. Strikers who are not relaxed snatch at chances, try too hard. Instead of clarity in the moment, your head is a mix of conflicting messages, and you end up doing something that is neither one thing nor the other.

Despite his difficulties at Liverpool, I believe Cissé will go on to be a big success somewhere else. There is a hugely talented player in there, just dying to get out. But he will need another Guy Roux – a manager prepared to make him feel special.

But it does look like Liverpool need a new quick striker, to play off Crouch when Rafa is looking for pace on the break, given Morientes will never offer that. Sinama-Pongolle has a lot of potential, but it's not yet clear whether he quite has what it takes to be a regular, although still has plenty to offer to the squad. While far from quick, it will also be interesting to see if Neil Mellor's loan is to prove his fitness and get some experience, or a precursor to a sale.

The revelation by Sven that Michael Owen is unhappy at Newcastle was no surprise. In the summer I felt Rafa was correct to go for Crouch, because of the style of play and 4-5-1 system, and because Crouch is the kind of player we needed to hold the attack together. But now we play two strikers on at least some occasions (although when it's Morientes, he drops deeper), bringing Owen back has to be considered. I'd love to know what's in Mickey's contract.

With only a week left to the transfer window, it looks like Cissé will have four more months to prove himself at Liverpool, or for everyone to call it quits. I haven't given up hope, but I'm also no longer holding my breath.

© Paul Tomkins 2006

Paul Tomkins's articles on LFC are second to none, but unless he was a totally different player in France there is no way i can believe he has produced subtle or cheeky finishes.
I know confidence is always a massive factor for a footballer, but he has never attempted a subtle or cheeky finish that i can recall.
He snatches at chances and ALWAYS goes for power instead of placement.
I wouldnt say he is a natural finisher either, not from what i have seen of him in a liverpool shirt...or a France one either.
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Postby zarababe » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:03 pm

We miss Luis Garcia, don't you think.. ?

Calm down though, this is a 'team' of scorers, not just relying on out and out scorers, we were unlucky yesterday, who scored there winner... ummm a defender ..
THE BRENDAN REVOLUTION IS UPON US !

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Postby red37 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:17 pm

larsson is touted as returning to sweden (helsingborgs) and now the barcodes are trying to get him as cover for owen.
it seems though he wants to go home.
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Postby stmichael » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:36 pm

KINGCANTONA1966 wrote:SO YOU NEED HELP GETTING OVER THE GOOD OLD GLORY YEARS UH? THE 80'S HAVE GONE.....GONE! SO COME ON! YOU AINT HAD NOTHING TO SHOUT ABOUT TILL LAST YEAR WHEN THE REF HELPED YOU WIN/FLUKE THE CHAMPS LEAGUE!!

WHAT YOU ALL NEED TO DO IS FIRST:

1, GET INTO THE CENTRY AND LEAVE THE 80'S BEHIND

2, TAKE YOUR LIVERPPOL GLASSES OFF

3, STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE PAST! ITS HISTORY!!

4, STOP TRYING TO KILL POOR WAITERS IN OTHER COUNTRIES

5, STOP STEALING CARS, GET JOBS AND STOP GRANNY STABBING!!

gary neville for prime minister!!

why cant you lot get over the 80's? you have been a shitty team for 15 years now! we are rebuliding a new team we had john o' in centre mid and giggs a winger in centre mid and you still could'nt beat us!

stop relying on stevie (chelski rent boy) gerrard!! if he plays  so do you!

how many times have you lot won the prem?? 0......NOT THE OLD LEAGUE BUT THE PREM??

its like man utd v's spain!

SO COME ON ADMIT UNITED ARE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN THE WORLD!![B]

right so you've been banned once so you come back with a different username, just confirming you are a manc as i believed you were.

once lfc logs on and gets my PM you're history.
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Postby El Nino_#9 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:39 pm

you just have to wonder.... If Cisse/Crouch or Nando had scored and won the utd game. would we have people on here asking for new strikers? ??? i think not!
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Postby stmichael » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:40 pm

Can I just clarify. We don't need a prolific scorer, we need a clinical scorer.

There is a difference.

Andrew Cole is prolific, he is not clinical.
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