Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:41 pm

Was reading some other liverpool websites and found a post which really hit home to me.

Who can defend a system, the same one most are looking forward to next year, that allows the below strikers such a return? You defend the system and at the same time point fingers at the results from the system and blame the striker for the results but not the system.

Results are

Baros 9 goals in 22 games
Morientes 2 in 8 games
Ciise 2 in 8 games
Pongolle 2 in 16 games
Mellor 2 in 9

And you should look at how much or better said, how little chances the above get to shoot at goal

Apparently the majority think Benny is going to say good bye to Baros this summer and rightly so. Rightly so? Have to wonder about that as our system is obviously not set up to create a lot of chances for our strikers as the above lot combined has less shots on goal all year than Henry. Combined. You can nominate any striker in the world and put him in a system that provides so little oppurtunities and you will get the same result. Less goals. If Henry played in this sytem his 80 shots at goal would become closer to 30 - 40 and goals scored would become 12 - 14

If you are a fan of Bennys system then you know his strikers suffer as he spreads the goals about. If that is the case then get off our strikers case as you cant have Bennys system and a 20 league goal a year striker as well. Unless you know a striker who will score every 2nd chance he gets as any striker under Benny's system will be lucky to have 30 shots on goal all year.

Thoughts?

by **Scottbot** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:53 pm

It certainly raises some good points. Am sure i read that during one of Rafas' La Liga winning seasons the top scorer had something like 12-14 goals to his name (might be wrong about that).
There is no doubting our style of play this season has resulted in many more goals coming from the midfield. Gerrard and Garcia are into double figures (although both have played further forward on a number of occasions) Riise must have 7. Throw in a couple from Xabi (it might be 3) + goals from Hamman, Igor and Nunez and it makes pretty impressive reading.

how many goals do we think Owen would have scored had he stayed on this season? My guess would be 16-20 in all competitions up till this point. So i guess i am contradicting the first post.

by **the return of HAS** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:53 pm

No offence St Mike but that is the biggest piece of b.u.l.l.******thats i've heard in a while.

By the way didn't Miguel Angel Mista score something like 20 goals in the league only for Valencia last season under Rafa and the same system?

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:00 pm

There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

What a load of cr@p.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:01 pm

the return of HAS wrote:No offence St Mike but that is the biggest piece of b.u.l.l.******thats i've heard in a while.

Since reading your own teamsheet for the Man.City this weekend you mean?

Couldn't resist it Has

by **Scottbot** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:03 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

What a load of cr@p.

Leon - your always on peoples backs for posting tosh on this forum and then when a post comes up that might be worth talking about (whether you agree with it or not) you pis.s all over it.

by **the return of HAS** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:04 pm

Scottbot wrote:
the return of HAS wrote:No offence St Mike but that is the biggest piece of b.u.l.l.******thats i've heard in a while.

Since reading your own teamsheet for the Man.City this weekend you mean?

Couldn't resist it Has

Come on man, The only thing I have really done is to rest Gerrard and play Welsh.

by **stmichael** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:07 pm

I accept that many would say how can we even be looking at a system that has provided the most entertaining football we have seen in six years!

Ok its still not right but give Rafa a bit of credit. He knows what he needs and besides Mori he hasnt been able to bring in any strikers, he has been lumbered with what he inherited. Lets face it, in the last system we were hardly giving Micky O a dozen shots a game, especially the last two years.

But the fact is, the system we play creates very few shots on goals for our strikers, no matter who they are or how few or many games they have played this season. Look at any of them & I bet you their shots on goal have been halved in the games they played this year versus what they were use to in France, Spain etc. Unless they are magicians they are not going to score many goals if they dont get the shot chances, will they?

by **Scottbot** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:14 pm

Have to say Baros and Cisse (when he was fit) have missed their fair share of chances this season. Were the strikers getting so many more chances last season? I doubt it myself although Ged liked to tell us we had a million shots a season. I'm happy with the system we play and would be surprised if Mori/Cisses don't notch up 30+ goals next season between them. Also i'm pretty sure the boss would have played with 2 up more often if he had the personnel this season.

by **the return of HAS** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:14 pm

stmichael wrote:I accept that many would say how can we even be looking at a system that has provided the most entertaining football we have seen in six years!

Ok its still not right but give Rafa a bit of credit. He knows what he needs and besides Mori he hasnt been able to bring in any strikers, he has been lumbered with what he inherited. Lets face it, in the last system we were hardly giving Micky O a dozen shots a game, especially the last two years.

But the fact is, the system we play creates very few shots on goals for our strikers, no matter who they are or how few or many games they have played this season. Look at any of them & I bet you their shots on goal have been halved in the games they played this year versus what they were use to in France, Spain etc. Unless they are magicians they are not going to score many goals if they dont get the shot chances, will they?

It is true that Rafa needs to bring in his own type of players to play the way he wants.

But the main 3 factors we haven’t had a 20 goal man this season are:

1) We went into this season without a proven Premiership goal scorer. None of our strikers had played a full Premiership season.

2) None of our strikers have had an extended run in the team, except Baros who was interrupted by 2 injures and now a suspension.

3) The team has not played with any sort of consistency this season. It has taken time for players too adjust to Rafa's way.

I think next season we will be better placed to see how well strikers can do in this system, and also whether the strikers we have are good enough to be top notch goal scores in the Premiership.

by **LiverpoolFan00** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:09 pm

I don't think the reason Baros isn't getting more goals is the systems. He seems to be getting plenty of chances but just can't convert enough of them

by **Alonso_Rulz** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:44 pm

LiverpoolFan00 wrote:I don't think the reason Baros isn't getting more goals is the systems. He seems to be getting plenty of chances but just can't convert enough of them

agree with that point.. i think, as long as the team in all, score enough goals, who cares who is the scorer?
as long as we just win!

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:54 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

What a load of cr@p.

Leon - your always on peoples backs for posting tosh on this forum and then when a post comes up that might be worth talking about (whether you agree with it or not) you pis.s all over it.

You think that stats are worth talking about ?

I mean read this again:

St Michael wrote:Who can defend a system, the same one most are looking forward to next year, that allows the below strikers such a return? You defend the system and at the same time point fingers at the results from the system and blame the striker for the results but not the system.

Results are

Baros 9 goals in 22 games
Morientes 2 in 8 games
Ciise 2 in 8 games
Pongolle 2 in 16 games
Mellor 2 in 9

And you should look at how much or better said, how little chances the above get to shoot at goal

1) What kind of english is that supposed to be anyway?

2) Those figures are completed games? Are they including sub appearences?

3) Where does it actually show the number of goal scoring opportunities each player has actuall had (which is my interpretation of the argument behind the thread)?

4) Are those figures League, Cup Europe or all goals?

5) What is the actual argument St Michael is getting at?

I think what has happened here is St Michael has seen someone elses post on anotehr forum that has got some decent replies and ripped it off.

by **PabloAimar** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:20 pm

milan is jus goin thru a bad patch.

look at his record before xmas. he's one sick-****** dangerous mo' fo'

by **Eazy-E** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:35 pm

Bravo...best post i've seen today.

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Systems - Getting the best out of our strikers?

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