Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:37 am

Can we make a judgement on him based on a couple of appearances? Is it possible that we can call him so early? I reckon it is so here goes...

I think he's a really good player. He tucks in and pushes out at the right time, is sensible and robust in the tackle and has a sweet left-foot which can distribute both long and short. His free-kick yesterday was excellent and given the opportunity, will probably score quite a few times from set-pieces this season.

I think he has recieved a lot of unfair criticism for the goal yesterday. People who watch the game on the telly really must try and ignore the ramblings of Andy Gray. Not only is his anti-Liverpool bias absolutely legendary, I think he lacks basic technical football knowledge. How else could you explain the fact that every single time Liverpool concede a goal from a set-piece for any reason whatsoever, Andy always reverts to his critique of the zonal marking system. Forget the fact that Liverpool had the best defence in the Premiership and conceded less goals from set-pieces than anybody else in the league, andy doesn't like zonal marking systems. I've said it many times on here, it's not the system it's the players.

Now lets look at the goal yesterday. Instantly, Andy the analyst said "It's Aurelio's fault". Why? well he was stood closest to Hulse before he made his movement of course, so therefore it must be his fault right? Not really. Zonal marking by definition doesn't mean that Aurelio was marking Hulse because he was standing the closest to him, that's not his job. Infact, as one of the smallest players in the team it would be a touch strange if he was asked to mark the opposition centre-forward from a set-piece under any circumstances. So forget what andy said and resist the temptation to think that because he gets paid for it, he actually knows lots about the technical side of football, he doesn't.

My take on the goal is this. Firstly it was an excellent delivery but you have to expect that in the top division. In expecting the ball to be played in between the goalkeeper and the defensive line I think we should have done two things. Firstly I think we defended too high up. Particularly in view of the fact that Sheff U don't posess any demon headers of the ball I would have like to have seen us defend it maybe five yards deeper, somewhere around and about our penalty spot. This greatly reduces the margin for error in the delivery and would probably mean the taker would take some pace off it, to steer the ball into the area he was aiming at.

Secondly, from a zonal point of view I am certain that had Carragher been playing there would have been a defender, (probably Carra himself) Sweeping along the edge of the six-yard box and attacking the incoming delivery. The problems were basically a lack of organisation and method. It should be the central defenders jobs to organize those around them and this clearly didn't happen. As Hyypia appeared to take the front zone my suspicion is that under further analysis it will infact be placed more at the door of Agger than anybody else. Aurelio while not being blameless was definately not the sole culprit in my view.

So there you have it. My impression is that he is going to be a fantastic aquisition, and that ultimately he will be our regular left-back.

by **coddy** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:45 am

Good post. I think he has a future but we need to decide on Riise's future. I dont think it is fair just to drop JAR to the bench (assuming Gonzo is our regular LW).

About the goal yeaterday, i dont think anyone is really to blame as it was a high class example of set-pieces. However Aurelio could have tracked Hulse and at least challenged the ball. If he wasn't marking Hulse than i would like to know who was...... If we were zonal marking then i think the team made a wrong decision (both doing zonal marking and putting Aurelio next to the substancially taller Hulse)

Aurelio's future will be decided by how hhis next few performances are and how JAR and Gonzo fit into the squad.

by **redmikey** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:47 am

good shout as always bigmick

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:58 am

I think it is way to early judge Aurellio as a left back. I like his comfort on the ball and his distribution. I have read comments about him not being tough enough yesterday and simply watching while they dominated him, I don’t know where this came from, I thought he settled reasonably well. But I would like to see him in a few more games before I believe he will be successful left back at LFC.

In terms of the goal, it can defiantly be attributed to a lack of organisation and familiarity because 2 our long serving defenders went off injured. I find it hard to criticise Agger and Aurellio for the goal because how many times can they have practiced this with the same players, let alone experienced this in real matches with the same players. If you remember we first struggled with the zonal system and then by the end last season most were hailing it with us having such a fantastic defensive record. But it does mean that it will only work though familiarity of players, so when a new player comes in it may look to have a chink or 2 in it.

I like the look of Aurellio and don’t think he will have too many problems settling, but I haven’t seen enough to say whether he is a better left back than Riise.

by **redmikey** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:59 am

I also think he is going to give us the ability to keep teams penned in there own half like yesterday, his passing reminded me of ruddock when he pinged a 60 yard pass to SG,

as far as andy gray goes i wouldn't worry to much as the bais blue nose feck wit is sitting at home prayiny manure win the league so he can climb up fergi,

one point made yesterady that i agree with is that the back four chopped and changed with two three players that have hardly played together,and we were playing in a cup final as far as sheff utd were concerned, and they will have to play like that for the rest of the season to stay up.
which they won't and they will role over when chelsea turn up which is annoying as they would be a match for anyone playing at that pace, but we still should have won if we converted a corner or turned possesion into goals which will come when the players learn to play together up front
i would lie to see xabi sotting balls for bellamy to run on to at away games and robbie and kyte at home as god looked sharp yesterday which was good to see

by **red_indian** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:30 pm

i would ignore andy gray - he was saying rafa was mad to go for an untried back four - what is he talking about? the only 'vaguely' untried player was kromkamp in the starting back four - whats rafa supposed to do, not replace injured players?? the guy is just an idiot and totally biassed against liverpool. his comments about the goal being shocking defending, well yes it may have been, but it may also have been just a mistake - do other teams not make mistakes??

by **spion** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:32 pm

Fab will be a real asset after the settling down period. He already looks like a relaxed player on the ball & his distribution was very good in the most part. My only concern is that he & Riise are almost like for like players, so therefore might not play together very often. He is obviouslty a wing back rather than a traditional left back so we might be looking to play a 3-5-2 at times. Rafa hasn't got much wrong & the signing of Fab on a free cant be bad buisness. Anyhow a player that in Brazil is already looked upon as the replacement of Roberto Carlos cant be a bad player?

by **Sabre** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:43 pm

Now lets look at the goal yesterday. Instantly, Andy the analyst said "It's Aurelio's fault". Why? well he was stood closest to Hulse before he made his movement of course, so therefore it must be his fault right? Not really. Zonal marking by definition doesn't mean that Aurelio was marking Hulse because he was standing the closest to him, that's not his job. Infact, as one of the smallest players in the team it would be a touch strange if he was asked to mark the opposition centre-forward from a set-piece under any circumstances. So forget what andy said and resist the temptation to think that because he gets paid for it, he actually knows lots about the technical side of football, he doesn't.

I think that the criticism is unfair, and that he's a great player. We need this kind of players. Yesteryear we were just lucky with injuries, but look, two twisted ankles against Sheffield of two important men.

In the goal what we saw is a poorly implemented zonal defence, and if I were to ask who's fault it is I'd say it was Agger's.

Aurelio is only going to improve from now on and he has excellent set pieces taking, he's going to bring a lot of good things.

by **onizukaeikichi** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:01 pm

i think he's a good player but i see JAR and him rotating and possibly Warnock as well since JAR is injuired now

by **bigmick** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:03 pm

Sabre wrote:I think that the criticism is unfair, and that he's a great player. We need this kind of players. Yesteryear we were just lucky with injuries, but look, two twisted ankles against Sheffield of two important men.

In the goal what we saw is a poorly implemented zonal defence, and if I were to ask who's fault it is I'd say it was Agger's.

Sabes if you read the rest of my post you will see that I came to exactly the same conclusion as you regarding the goal. I'm not criticising Aurelio, I too think he will be a really good player for us.

by **Sabre** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:07 pm

Yes you did :blush:

, I use to read all the posts, but this time I was eager to post something as I have just seen the game and couldn't wait to quote the first paragraph. On the second read I realised, I didn't copy you ! :laugh:

I didn't see the game with Andy Gray but another channel, and they didn't mention it was Aurelio's fault whatsoever.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:53 pm

I also didn't have the "pleasure" of Andy Gray's commentary so I must admit it is my own lack of understanding of the principles of zonal marking that caused me to blame Aurelio for the goal in the match thread. I'm still a firm believer in the system--the results don't lie--I just don't understand all of its nuances. Thanks for the lesson, Mick!

As for Aurelio, I think he has real quality and will provide a lot to the side. His whipped cross into Bellamy, for example, was superb yesterday and Bellamy was unlucky not to score from it.

Ultimately he may well displace JAR but, prior to the injury yesterday, it seemed as though Rafa had designs on Aurelio and Gonzales sharing LM duties while JAR continued as LB. I suspect that, as much as Rafa likes squad rotation, unsettling last season's very effective back four is not what he wants to do at this stage--although he won't have much choice now thanks to the two ankle injuries to Carra and Riise.

by **weringo** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:03 pm

Andy Gray is a :censored:

bias

. There is no point listening to him if you want to learn about the technical side of the game when watching liverpool, when another team scores its not a good goal, its all liverpool's fault.

Earlier in the game yesterday Kromkamp was in a 50-50 challenge with a Sheffield player, the Sheffield player fell over. According to Andy Gray it was a blatent foul. A couple of minutes later I think Riise? had a shot and it should have been a corner, I could see it a mile off. According to Andy it was too hard for the ref to see to give a corner.

by **bigmick** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:37 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Thanks for the lesson, Mick!

Hey Bob I'm only a guesser same as you mate. Just 'cos I go on a bit doesn't mean I'm right.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:44 pm

bigmick wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Thanks for the lesson, Mick!

Hey Bob I'm only a guesser same as you mate. Just 'cos I go on a bit doesn't mean I'm right.

Now you're just being modest, mate. When it comes to defensive organization, you seem to know your stuff. Let me guess--you used to be one of those good old fashioned English centre-backs in your day...dominant in the air, positionally sound and hard as f*ck in the tackle!

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