Liverpool FC Forum

by **heimdall** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:46 pm

Fauxy wrote:
kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:The Maddock fella is on the money.

Last season we missed out on the title by four points. The scenario is that you are told we are going to get 30 million quid for Alonso, and 5 million quid for Arbeloa. We are going to be allowed to spend ALL the money on replacements, plus a couple of mill.

If someone had told you at that point that the Mancs were going to lose Ronaldo and Tevez and replace them with Owen and Valencia (making a profit of 62 million quid, would have been more if Tevez hadn't left for free) would you have been confident of overtaking them? If you were still in doubt, they could have told you that both Vidic and Ferdinand were going to miss over half the season.

If they'd have told you that Arsenal (who we finished well ahead of) were going to lose Emanuel Adebayor and Kolo Toure, not bothering to replace ther front man and replacing the defender with Vermaelan, would you have been confident about finishing above them again? What if they told you that an Persie was going to be injured all season, would that have settled any doubts you had?

And what of Chelsea, who we finished above last season? They were going to keep their players, get a new manager and sign a Russian fella for 18 million quid to play fullback. They also had the African Nations Cup to contend with, and Michael Essien being injured nearly all season. Confident?

What about Spurs, Villa, City, Everton, Birmingham etc etc etc etc. Have they really all improved out of all recognition.

This "Rafa hater" says it's not all the owners. The management of the team has been a farce, get rid.

Funny how you constantly only give half the story. You talk about the other teams suffering from injuries painting them out to be victims, yet you conveniently do not mention our own worries with injuries. You talk like Rafa knew Alonso was going, even though he was sold towards the end of the transfer window which says Rafa tried to keep him or at least there was a chance he would not go. The truth seems unimportant to you but still you keep going. Still, as long as your happy.

No doubt your response will be as usual, no answer only a (not so) smiley.

Was thinking the same thing as i read bigmick's post..

Torres, Gerrard, Johnson, Benayoun and Agger are all massive players for us. They have been out for a big chunk of the season so you cant just ignore that and mention everyone else's injuries.

But have we had more injuries than the other top teams, I don't think we have, but Rafa bought very badly in the summer, especially Aquaman and Glen is massively overpriced and is a luxury item that we didn't really need.

by **devaney** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:02 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
devaney wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
devaney wrote:
Tophatman wrote:Maybe if Benitez does go to Madrid,he may want to off load Alonso, back to us!!!

Why the fk do you think Real Madrid would be remotely interested in Benitez. Sorry forgot it was football - fk the job up - get a massive pay off - go to bigger club and get even more money - why?

Don't know why your jumping down his throat mate, I (and i'm pretty sure i'm not alone in thinking they will be interested in Rafa) think they will be watccing Rafa's situation at LFC very closely. Here's a few reasons why.

- He's a Real Madrid old boy
- He's Spanish
- He beat Madrid to two titles in 3 years whilst managing unfashionable Valencia
- He's won a European Cup and been to another final with LFC
- His record in the European Cup is pretty impressive period
- His Liverpool side completely wiped the floor with Madrid last season, winning at their place and thrashing them at Anfield
- Oh, and I understand they have been in for him THREE TIMES in the past during his stint with LFC.

That's why they might be interested (despite this clusterfu...c...k of season)

Sorry Scott - I wasn't really having a go at you. All of you're reasons would look good on any CV for a prospective candidate but unfortunately you can pick holes in nearly all of them. For example just how good is his CL record.Very nearly out in the group stages the year we won it due to some idiotic tactical selections and then selects Kewell in the final and leaves Hamann out. Last season in the CL Rafa very nearly messed things up and this season he definately did.Real Madrid spent nearly a quarter of a billion pounds to rebuild what was a poor team by their standards and whilst the 4-1 was a brilliant result we caught them on a very bad day. Valencia winning the league title twice was a fantastic achievement but it was a long time ago. As for past interest in Rafa just how genuine was it? Was it just more agent hype to gain a superior negotiating stance to get Rafa his five year £25m contract.

I hate being so negative about Benitez but I really think it is time for a change. Rafa clearly seems to have run out of ideas in a season when Man United and Chelsea have lost a lot more games than in recent years. Everything seemed to start going wrong when Paco Ayestarán left after a disagreement and they had been together for a very long time. I don't think he has the same relationship with Sammy Lee - just an opinion - I'm not sure? Rafa clearly has problems with the man management side of his role. You only have to look at the body language of so many of the players to appreciate that they are absolutely fed up and Rafa seems incapable of motivating them. Is it Rafa, the silenced Kop, SOS protests or the chronic effect of our awful owners or a combination of things that have turned us into such a dispirited team?

Unless we win the Europa League Rafa will have gone four years without winning anything and for the best part playing some awful football. His stubbornness and boring style of play will be two of the key reasons that would not excite me if I was Real Madrid. His record in the transfer market would be another. The fact that he can speak Spanish would be an advantage - at least the fans would have a chance of understanding him!

Eh, hang on a minute.

Madrid have made a career of both employing sh!t managers and sacking sh!t managers

That most accurately describes their interest in Rafa if it does exist!

As for Rafa successfully turning it around next season I really would like to see that happen but I really am fed up with his very predictable and boring style of football.

by **Rockthekop** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:12 pm

It's a pity this once great club couldn't grow a set of balls and sack managers who clearly aren't up to it. How much longer will it take for the deluded to realise what most people already know?

That Benitez won't win the league with negative, inflexible tactics, mediocre players and serious lack of man management skills.

Houllier Part 2!

by **Fauxy** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:16 pm

heimdall wrote:
Fauxy wrote:
kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:The Maddock fella is on the money.

Last season we missed out on the title by four points. The scenario is that you are told we are going to get 30 million quid for Alonso, and 5 million quid for Arbeloa. We are going to be allowed to spend ALL the money on replacements, plus a couple of mill.

If someone had told you at that point that the Mancs were going to lose Ronaldo and Tevez and replace them with Owen and Valencia (making a profit of 62 million quid, would have been more if Tevez hadn't left for free) would you have been confident of overtaking them? If you were still in doubt, they could have told you that both Vidic and Ferdinand were going to miss over half the season.

If they'd have told you that Arsenal (who we finished well ahead of) were going to lose Emanuel Adebayor and Kolo Toure, not bothering to replace ther front man and replacing the defender with Vermaelan, would you have been confident about finishing above them again? What if they told you that an Persie was going to be injured all season, would that have settled any doubts you had?

And what of Chelsea, who we finished above last season? They were going to keep their players, get a new manager and sign a Russian fella for 18 million quid to play fullback. They also had the African Nations Cup to contend with, and Michael Essien being injured nearly all season. Confident?

What about Spurs, Villa, City, Everton, Birmingham etc etc etc etc. Have they really all improved out of all recognition.

This "Rafa hater" says it's not all the owners. The management of the team has been a farce, get rid.

Funny how you constantly only give half the story. You talk about the other teams suffering from injuries painting them out to be victims, yet you conveniently do not mention our own worries with injuries. You talk like Rafa knew Alonso was going, even though he was sold towards the end of the transfer window which says Rafa tried to keep him or at least there was a chance he would not go. The truth seems unimportant to you but still you keep going. Still, as long as your happy.

No doubt your response will be as usual, no answer only a (not so) smiley.

Was thinking the same thing as i read bigmick's post..

Torres, Gerrard, Johnson, Benayoun and Agger are all massive players for us. They have been out for a big chunk of the season so you cant just ignore that and mention everyone else's injuries.

But have we had more injuries than the other top teams, I don't think we have, but Rafa bought very badly in the summer, especially Aquaman and Glen is massively overpriced and is a luxury item that we didn't really need.

I will agree that Glen is a bit of a luxury that we didnt need, it would have been much better to spend 10 mill on a good striker and 7 mill on a decent full back...

But why do you think Aquilani was a bad signing? Since he has recently adjusted to our team he has played like the italian version of Fabregas and he hasnt broken his ankle or anything yet so I cant work out why people dont like the bloke

by **Penguins** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:00 pm

redmikey wrote:
bigmick wrote:The Maddock fella is on the money.

Last season we missed out on the title by four points. The scenario is that you are told we are going to get 30 million quid for Alonso, and 5 million quid for Arbeloa. We are going to be allowed to spend ALL the money on replacements, plus a couple of mill.

If someone had told you at that point that the Mancs were going to lose Ronaldo and Tevez and replace them with Owen and Valencia (making a profit of 62 million quid, would have been more if Tevez hadn't left for free) would you have been confident of overtaking them? If you were still in doubt, they could have told you that both Vidic and Ferdinand were going to miss over half the season.

If they'd have told you that Arsenal (who we finished well ahead of) were going to lose Emanuel Adebayor and Kolo Toure, not bothering to replace ther front man and replacing the defender with Vermaelan, would you have been confident about finishing above them again? What if they told you that an Persie was going to be injured all season, would that have settled any doubts you had?

And what of Chelsea, who we finished above last season? They were going to keep their players, get a new manager and sign a Russian fella for 18 million quid to play fullback. They also had the African Nations Cup to contend with, and Michael Essien being injured nearly all season. Confident?

What about Spurs, Villa, City, Everton, Birmingham etc etc etc etc. Have they really all improved out of all recognition.

This "Rafa hater" says it's not all the owners. The management of the team has been a farce, get rid.

mick,

i know people don't love rafa but i have yet to hear 1 single suggestion as to who people would rather have which is not idiotic or a pipe dream

gus hiddink wouldn't stay at chavski even with close links to roman

maureen wouldn't come to us as we have no money and are in a flat spin as a club

who else , enlighten me please.

this comes from someone who reads and respects a lot of things you post.

This is where I am right now.

I wouldn't say Rafa has lost the plot but his philosophy isn't working and never will unless he changes which he probably never will. I am tired of his favouritsm, love for hard work etc but if he is replaced it has to be smart replacement. Not a pipe dream but a young hungry manager willing to work on a non existant budget in the europa league.

Someone who do appreciate skill and a bit more offensive minded altough not naive. Someone to motivate the players and someone who isn't worried about his own repuation every day if the success isn't there.

by **bigmick** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:40 pm

redmikey wrote:
bigmick wrote:The Maddock fella is on the money.

Last season we missed out on the title by four points. The scenario is that you are told we are going to get 30 million quid for Alonso, and 5 million quid for Arbeloa. We are going to be allowed to spend ALL the money on replacements, plus a couple of mill.

If someone had told you at that point that the Mancs were going to lose Ronaldo and Tevez and replace them with Owen and Valencia (making a profit of 62 million quid, would have been more if Tevez hadn't left for free) would you have been confident of overtaking them? If you were still in doubt, they could have told you that both Vidic and Ferdinand were going to miss over half the season.

If they'd have told you that Arsenal (who we finished well ahead of) were going to lose Emanuel Adebayor and Kolo Toure, not bothering to replace ther front man and replacing the defender with Vermaelan, would you have been confident about finishing above them again? What if they told you that an Persie was going to be injured all season, would that have settled any doubts you had?

And what of Chelsea, who we finished above last season? They were going to keep their players, get a new manager and sign a Russian fella for 18 million quid to play fullback. They also had the African Nations Cup to contend with, and Michael Essien being injured nearly all season. Confident?

What about Spurs, Villa, City, Everton, Birmingham etc etc etc etc. Have they really all improved out of all recognition.

This "Rafa hater" says it's not all the owners. The management of the team has been a farce, get rid.

mick,

i know people don't love rafa but i have yet to hear 1 single suggestion as to who people would rather have which is not idiotic or a pipe dream

gus hiddink wouldn't stay at chavski even with close links to roman

maureen wouldn't come to us as we have no money and are in a flat spin as a club

who else , enlighten me please.

this comes from someone who reads and respects a lot of things you post.

It was a good question Mike until you spoilt it with the fan/supporter nonsense a couple of posts later.

Leaving that aside, are you seriously telling me that there isn't another manager in World football, nobody on planet Earth, who could have matched this seasons efforts? Before anybody calls this season a bliiiiiiiiiiiiip, we haven't won anything for four seasons, thats FOUR. This despite as I detailed in my previous post, us having every chance.

Many a manager would run to join Liverpool IMHO, and I'm disappointed you think the draw of the club has diminished to quite the extent that you do. I don't agree with that point of view, I still think we are a prestigious football club, and I don't think Benitez is the best man to manage it.

Being a fan, a real fan, a supporter or a superfan doesn't even come into it. That is my honest opinion, as I've no doubt yours is too.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:21 pm

Benitez: I have no cash for a summer spree
By Chris Brereton
Saturday, 27 March 2010

Rafael Benitez does not expect his Liverpool transfer kitty to be adversely affected if his club does not qualify for the Champions League this season – only because he has precious few funds to play with in the first place.

Benitez was advised at the start of the season that he could do little more than spend the money he generated, hence the purchases of Alberto Aquilani and Glen Johnson only once outgoing deals for Xabi Alonso and Alvaro Arbeloa had been settled.

The manager has also spent a relatively small amount bringing Maxi Rodriguez and Sotirios Kyrgiakos to Merseyside yet he is anything but the last of the big spenders.

Not finishing fourth is currently unthinkable yet if they do not make it, he expects no reduction in his war chest only because he is determined not to miss what he never had.

"They [the owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks] told me before that it didn't make a big difference [if we don't qualify]. Every year that we have qualified for the Champions League it hasn't made a big difference so if we don't qualify this time I don't expect a big difference."

A failure to qualify for the Champions League would be a stark wake-up call to the fact that the likes of Tottenham Hotspur, Manchester City and Aston Villa are now all genuine contenders. The hegemony of the old Big Four looks to be over – with Liverpool the principal victims – yet Benitez has not given up faith that a strong end of season can restore their position among the elite.

"It could go to the very end," he said. "I don't know which teams will be there. Hopefully it will be Liverpool and maybe another one but now there are four and maybe five teams involved so it is important to remain calm."

He also confirmed that Albert Riera's time at Anfield is almost up after he publicly criticised the Liverpool manager last week. Benitez said Riera could be sent out on loan.

by **zarababe** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:15 pm

Rafa ( AND EVERYONE) is buying in an overpriced market in which 'premier league' clubs r charged over the odds for half decent players.. and then there' s Man City, who'll pay anything for anyone (transfer fee-wise and wages) and are being overcharged to the hilt too (chicken and egg stuff) - so everyone suffers..

you can argue Johnson is not worth £18m.. but that was Portsmouth's asking price and others, including Chelsea (again) were willing to pay it.. so if Rafa ducked out, we'd accuse him of not competing and so on and on.. something Wenger is readily accused of - an lets face it how many of you on here didn't will that deal over the finishing line ... ay ?

The reality of the transfer market is, that the Mancs can ask for and relent in selling Ronaldo for a staggering £80m , cos someone is willing to pay it..( is he worth it - not in my book) £50m for Kaka.. and what £40m (and rising) for David Villa.. is he worth it, do you want Rafa to spend it on Villa (if he had it) etc etc - of course you will and we'd be on here willing it to happen.

Therefore, without a decent transfer budget.. there's no chance and we need a D.Villa, Alves, a Vidic etc - but at what price.. £25m + each

So as some argue why not just spend 30 mill on one player instead of on several players..u can do that if you're the mancs.. adding to a 'fit for purpose' squad - not if you need to add KWALITY in several key positions.. and that is where ewe are at the moment.

so money matters and we are in the paupers league on that people !

by **rocky29** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:45 pm

if rafa is still in charge next season we wont make the top ten never mind top 4.

by **DrPepe** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:02 pm

rocky29 wrote:if rafa is still in charge next season we wont make the top ten never mind top 4.

can you explain your reasoning ?

we don't necessarily need a Villa-level player imo - we need decent back up up front - we have another striker in the bag supposedly (the free guy from belgium) so hopefully that area wil be improved

by **damjan193** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:31 pm

Not that I support Rafa, but I neither hate him, thats why I ussualy dont talk about this topic.But I dont know why do you hate him so much... I dont think that you hated him at the time when he turned a whole match around and won us the CL title in a season when we look like we aint gonna get out of the group stages.I think you also loved him when he won the cup for us, and even not so long i.e. last year you loved him.Now he has a bad season and all of a sudden you talk about sacking him and stuff.I mean, it's only one bad season.Gerrard's having one as well, do you want to sell him now?But then again, he did make some stupid transfers, but he did some great ones as well (Mascherano, Reaina, TORRES...).But this year he is doing some idiotic things and as Rieara said, it's like he thinks that we are all stupid or something.I mean, his formation and lineup crealy sucks bad but he is just too stubrn to change it, and he plays players like Lucas, who are clearly a key of bad games.But he doesnt want to do anything and it looks like he WANTS us to fail.And he also may be aiming for the money.So I cant made up my mind but if you ask me I still trust in Rafa, cos you cant say something about him becouse of one bad season, knowing the more than OK seasons before.As far as I know, even Alex Ferguson sucked for like 5 or 6 years... well look at him now.What I think is that we shouldnt rush this, and give him another chance.Hope that you guys are into reading long posts

.

by **parchpea** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:35 pm

Poorer clubs than ours fire managers and people can rattle on about in the stats and do the maths all day long but bottom line is finishing outside that top 4 is poor season for Liverpool Football Club. If we dont have that expectation as fans anymore then maybe recent history has tore the heart out of the support and thats sadder than rubbish owners and a manager on the ropes.

by **roberto green** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:07 pm

rocky29 wrote:if rafa is still in charge next season we wont make the top ten never mind top 4.

what a whopper

:no

by **Penguins** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:47 pm

roberto green wrote:
rocky29 wrote:if rafa is still in charge next season we wont make the top ten never mind top 4.

what a whopper

I see the difference of Rafa being here and not being here as maybe 1-2 spots in the table if nothing else changes at the club.

I do not see the squad we have now as being close to challenging as what was good enough to challenge 2-3 years ago will not be today. It's not like the game stands still.

Injuries will happen and is a part of the game.

And when Torres is injured we have to play Ngog and when Drogba is injured Anelka plays and when rooney is injured Barbatov plays. There is the difference.

At the same time I'd rather us finishing 5th and play a bit positive football than ending 5th playing boring negative football.

by **lakes10** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:52 am

heres is the list of the players Rafa has taken to or club, what ones do you think have been good buys

The 56

Josemi Rey
Antonio Nunez
Xabi Alonso
Luis Garcia
Mauricio Pellegrino
Fernando Morientes
Scott Carson
Boudewijn Zenden
Jose Reina
Antonio Barragan
Mohamed Sissoko
Peter Crouch
Miki Roque
Jack Hobbs
Besian Idrizaj
Mark Gonzalez
Paul Anderson
Jan Kromkamp
David Martin
Daniel Agger
Robbie Fowler
Craig Bellamy
Gabriel Paletta
Fábio Aurélio
Jermaine Pennant
Dirk Kuyt
Nabil El Zhar
Astrit Ajdarevic
Daniele Padelli
Jordy Brouwer
Francisco Durán
Álvaro Arbeloa
Javier Mascherano
Lucas Leiva
Krisztián Németh
Mikel San José Domínguez
Sebastian Leto
Fernando Torres
Andriy Voronin
Yossi Benayoun
Ryan Babel
Charles Itandje
Emiliano Insúa
Martin Skrtel
Javier Mascherano
Philipp Degen
Andrea Dossena
Diego Cavalieri
David N'Gog
Robbie Keane
Albert Riera
Glen Johnson
Alberto Aquilani
Sotirios Kyrgiakos
Daniel Ayala
Maxi Rodriguez

i think the cost is £228,976,000

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