Liverpool FC Forum

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:47 am

bigmick wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
bigmick wrote:The old "add ons" . More nonsense is talked on these forms these days about the old "add ons" than anything else. When you agree to buy a player and it's 5 million down, plus five million per season for two more seasons then you are paying 15 million quid for him. You can't send him back after the first season and say, "you know what, we don't want him anymore". You can sell him back at a huge loss (as in the Keane scenario) but you can't just give him back and not be liable.

In Aquilani's case, the "common knowledge"/speculation was that he was going to cost 5 million per season for three seasons plus an additional million per season should we qualify for the Champions League, plus appearance bonuses etc etc. I suppose there is a chance we might miss out on paying a Champions League add on this season as it's turning out, but whichever way you look at it it's 18-20 million quid.

Many many transfers are paid in installments, not just ours. Equally, if we spend 20 million next season andpeople start talking about "plus 16 million in add ons for various previous purchases" it just gets silly. 18-20 million quid for Aquilani, take your pick.

No mick the add ons are dependant on appearances , roma published it themselves . So if Aquilani stay's fit and is doing well for himself and the club .Roma get the dosh all in installments over the legnth of his contract . So up to now we have payed £5 million for this player ,no more no less. Glen johnson cost £17 million ,so we pay pompey £9 million i think cos the rest they owe us from the crouch deal . Madrid paid £30 million for Alonso upfront that was the deal .

The point being that , we have not seen the money recouped from our sales (don't forget alonso was'nt the only sale ) ploughed back into the team . If you don't like it mick that's fair enough , but you shouldn't dispell it as nonsense . I'm sure Rafa wishes it was nonsense and he actually had that money to spend on players.

Well the truth is that none of us really know without seeing the contract. I had a quick look this is from LFC online, and apparently the article from Roma confirms it:

The 20 million EURO transfer fee is broken up into the following:

- 4 cash instalments of
- - 5 million EURO upfront
- - 3 million EURO by 4th January 2010
- - 7 million EURO by June 30th 2010
- - 5 million EURO by June 30th 2011.

Further Add ons include:

- 300,000 EURO for every year Liverpool qualify for the Champions League from 2010/11 to 2014/15

- 250,000 EURO everytime the player reaches 35 appearancs, 70 appearances, 105 appeances and then 140 appearances.

- 1 million EURO the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014.

- 5% of any future transfer fee will be paid to Roma.

Details can be found here (for those fluent in Italian) - http://www.asroma.it/UserFiles/988.pdf

So if I'm reading that right, the main bulk of the transfer fee isn't dependent on appearances. We've already paid 5 million Euro (quite a lot at todays exchange rates), we have to pay 3 million more in January, and 7 million more at the end of the season. Then we have to pay a further 5 million at the end of next season. No mention of appearances in that bit, they come in the "add ons" afterwards.

If we qualify for the Champions League each year, they get a further 1.2 million, plus another million Euro if he makes 140 appearances.

All told it would make it about 22 millkion Euro or so, which without getting my calculator out probably explains why they've called it around 18 million quid.

Sorry, speaking of "add ons", I didn't put the link in. Its here

http://forums.lfconline.com/showthread.php?t=91854

Like i said THE ADD ONS ,were dependant on appearances.

by **bigmick** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:54 am

Oh so you meant that the 5% extra was based on appearances Igor my mistake. I thought you were backing up Lando's point from earlier that his transfer fee largely depended on appearances. As we can see from this breakdown, it doesn't. Lando also implied that if he turns out to be sh!t or words to that effect, he will be cheaper. He may end up being 3% cheaper or whatever it is, but we are signed up for 20 million Euros whichever way you look at it.

by **aCe'** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:55 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
bigmick wrote:The old "add ons" . More nonsense is talked on these forms these days about the old "add ons" than anything else. When you agree to buy a player and it's 5 million down, plus five million per season for two more seasons then you are paying 15 million quid for him. You can't send him back after the first season and say, "you know what, we don't want him anymore". You can sell him back at a huge loss (as in the Keane scenario) but you can't just give him back and not be liable.

In Aquilani's case, the "common knowledge"/speculation was that he was going to cost 5 million per season for three seasons plus an additional million per season should we qualify for the Champions League, plus appearance bonuses etc etc. I suppose there is a chance we might miss out on paying a Champions League add on this season as it's turning out, but whichever way you look at it it's 18-20 million quid.

Many many transfers are paid in installments, not just ours. Equally, if we spend 20 million next season andpeople start talking about "plus 16 million in add ons for various previous purchases" it just gets silly. 18-20 million quid for Aquilani, take your pick.

No mick the add ons are dependant on appearances , roma published it themselves . So if Aquilani stay's fit and is doing well for himself and the club .Roma get the dosh all in installments over the legnth of his contract . So up to now we have payed £5 million for this player ,no more no less. Glen johnson cost £17 million ,so we pay pompey £9 million i think cos the rest they owe us from the crouch deal . Madrid paid £30 million for Alonso upfront that was the deal .

The point being that , we have not seen the money recouped from our sales (don't forget alonso was'nt the only sale ) ploughed back into the team . If you don't like it mick that's fair enough , but you shouldn't dispell it as nonsense . I'm sure Rafa wishes it was nonsense and he actually had that money to spend on players.

Well the truth is that none of us really know without seeing the contract. I had a quick look this is from LFC online, and apparently the article from Roma confirms it:

The 20 million EURO transfer fee is broken up into the following:

- 4 cash instalments of
- - 5 million EURO upfront
- - 3 million EURO by 4th January 2010
- - 7 million EURO by June 30th 2010
- - 5 million EURO by June 30th 2011.

Further Add ons include:

- 300,000 EURO for every year Liverpool qualify for the Champions League from 2010/11 to 2014/15

- 250,000 EURO everytime the player reaches 35 appearancs, 70 appearances, 105 appeances and then 140 appearances.

- 1 million EURO the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014.

- 5% of any future transfer fee will be paid to Roma.

Details can be found here (for those fluent in Italian) - http://www.asroma.it/UserFiles/988.pdf

So if I'm reading that right, the main bulk of the transfer fee isn't dependent on appearances. We've already paid 5 million Euro (quite a lot at todays exchange rates), we have to pay 3 million more in January, and 7 million more at the end of the season. Then we have to pay a further 5 million at the end of next season. No mention of appearances in that bit, they come in the "add ons" afterwards.

If we qualify for the Champions League each year, they get a further 1.2 million, plus another million Euro if he makes 140 appearances.

All told it would make it about 22 millkion Euro or so, which without getting my calculator out probably explains why they've called it around 18 million quid.

Sorry, speaking of "add ons", I didn't put the link in. Its here

http://forums.lfconline.com/showthread.php?t=91854

Like i said THE ADD ONS ,were dependant on appearances.

great ! maybe next summer we'll sell dossena for 3 mill and use that money to buy Messi and Aguero.... Im sure if we offer them 100mill each in installments with no upfront payment they'd be willing to sell... we'd still be on a net transfer profit according to some then and the fcking owners would be blamed for not putting up the money.....

get real people !

by **Kopite-Jud** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:55 am

Don't sack him. If u had a bit of a rocky relationship in the past month with your wife but the best year of your life in years you would be filing for divorce? We need to stick together, like friends/ families stick together yes times are hard but we will be alright, and it will start with a tonking of united on Sunday. na na na na na na na na na na na na Fernando Torres Liverpools number 9 :cool:

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:04 pm

bigmick wrote:Oh so you meant that the 5% extra was based on appearances Igor my mistake. I thought you were backing up Lando's point from earlier that his transfer fee largely depended on appearances. As we can see from this breakdown, it doesn't. Lando also implied that if he turns out to be sh!t or words to that effect, he will be cheaper. He may end up being 3% cheaper or whatever it is, but we are signed up for 20 million Euros whichever way you look at it.

The piont being mick ,that with other player sales and the alonso money .Where the feck has it gone ? IT HAS NOT ALL GONE ON THE AQUILANI AND JOHNSON DEALS. So with the manager being promised one thing at the start of the transfer window and ending up something totally different ,what in gods name was the man supposed to do .

by **flipmode** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:18 pm

Interesting facts:-

Rafa Benitez will take charge of his 200th league game for Liverpool on Sunday - and we've unearthed some fascinating statistics comparing the Spaniard's record to rival managers.
Benitez has won 113 of his 199 top-flight clashes since taking charge of Liverpool in 2004 - an impressive 56.8 per cent.

This compares favourably to the records of Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger in their first 200 league games.

Ferguson won just 87 from 200 (43.5 per cent) after joining Manchester United in 1986 - and it took the Scot almost seven years to collect a league title.

Wenger triumphed in 110 (55 per cent) of his first 200 league matches following his appointment at Highbury in 1996 - a stat which was good enough at the time to win him a championship trophy in 1997-98

by **Dazzer** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:58 pm

NANNY RED wrote:So Mick what happens to next seasies tranfer budget then , if your saying that all the Aqua money has been included in this season as overall spend . then that should leave us 13 million straight in the pot for next season. Because the way i see it 5 million a season payments mean 5 million out of our tranfer budget next season, They havnt paid the eighteen million up front as you know ,its gonna be paid at 5 a season, so they still have to firstly come up with that 5 million next year. Or am i being stupid arl bas.tard

What happend to the Money that in an interview with Rafa , were he said himself after signing Johnson we can buy one more quality player WITHOUT having to sell anyone. At that time Xabi was still here , An somehow i dont think he was talking about the greek,
I dont understand all about figures, but i know what i hear im sure its on youtube or some where where he said it

Well nan the point I was making that lando didn't understand is that money comes out of this years budget all 18-20 mil and gets put in a savings account or some sh.it then if we have money on top of that he be given more regaurdless of if we have to pay 5 mil each year cos that money is backed up.

So if you spend 18-20 mil that whole amount goes from ya budget in that year stops managers buying 100 players for 100 mil for 1 mil per year for 100 years get my point its a safe gaurd.

Reason why clubs buy players like this is because it saves them maybe 3-4% due to instrest they make in the banks on money over the few years the payment waits.

They will take the 3rd payment put in high intrest frozen account and make a good profit of that money and reduce the overall cost.

by **tubby** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:56 pm

Nice to see Wenger backing RAFA.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N166189091023-1648.htm

by **Madmax** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:07 pm

yeah just read that article.. Nice one wenger..

by **Octsky** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:11 pm

Sabre wrote:
He's a great manager and there are times when he is a genius but sometimes his approach can take the best out of you," said Pennant. "Liverpool are a great side but they need to let loose and express themselves a bit. Look at Barcelona - you don't see them restricted, you see them breaking all sorts of shackles and they win things. Maybe if Liverpool went that way a bit they would be even better."

Yes Pennant, we're all seeing how great you are in Caesar Augusta (that's where Zaragoza comes from).

Tell your manager to play like Barcelona. Instead of a long goal kick and pressing, try to start the play from the back like they do, try to play their posession football without their quality, and if we're lucky I might see you next season in Segunda Division and I can ask you sign a photo as an ex red you are.

To be frank, i sort off agreed with Pennant.
I always see old fergie or H.Redknapp as those kind of managers who are technically limited and just play their best 11.

They managed by motivation (be it fear or inspiration), play their best 11 and let the team expressed their creativity in the field. Arsene Wenger is also a manager who played his best 11 but i feel that he is more technically savvy, but maybe lacking in the motivation department.

Whereas Rafa is a brilliant technician but like to restrict players' creativity and couldnt raise the players to play their 110% consistently. A good example is the Alonso's free kick incident VS Blackburn, when he wanted Alonso to play it short but he crossed it for Torres instead.
Post match, big fat sam and fergie kicked a big fuss out of it, this is then we know big fat sam is sleeping with the enemy.

i just feel that under Rafa we always played to adapt to opposition whereas opposition played to adapt to Fergie's or Wenger's. Sometime Rafa read too much into a situation and hampered the team's creativity and freedom.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:30 pm

The_Rock wrote:"I don't see how a player can play at an average team and be great and go to Liverpool and be not as great," Pennant told the Guardian.

by **Dazzer** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:45 pm

bavlondon wrote:Nice to see Wenger backing RAFA.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N166189091023-1648.htm

Its in his instrest to back rafa as arsenal are chasing for a title and playing well if mancs slip up its all good for the arsenal.I was expecting this reaction from either Wenger or Ancelotti.

by **neil** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:19 pm

baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
neil wrote:we say we cannot afford to sack the manager but surely we must be at a crossroads. Losing the amount of games we have so far this season is a disgrace, the next game...which we will lose...must end the incumbent managers tenure. I'm happy we've merited a top 8 in europe monica for the last few years but this has come to an end, we will not finish top 4 this year. We need a new perspective, I'm tired of Rafas dogmatic approach, zonal defending, Lucas, no subs till 70+ mins, surely sub decisions are based on in game merit?? not whatever time has elapsed? I have had enough, who have we beat? burnley bolton(just) its over for this guy, bring on Morihno or klinsmann. btw i was ashamed to be sat amongst people booing the other night, blimey wtf is going on.

Well there's nothing like support from people like you is there? What a ridiculous post that is.

I suppose Mystic Meg told you we're definitely gonna lose against United or did you read Russel Grant's predications on the stars?

I support lfc not blindly not rafa. How bad do you want things to get? isnt losing every game we play bad enough. "what a ridiculous post" source?

by **Dazzer** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:50 pm

neil wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
neil wrote:we say we cannot afford to sack the manager but surely we must be at a crossroads. Losing the amount of games we have so far this season is a disgrace, the next game...which we will lose...must end the incumbent managers tenure. I'm happy we've merited a top 8 in europe monica for the last few years but this has come to an end, we will not finish top 4 this year. We need a new perspective, I'm tired of Rafas dogmatic approach, zonal defending, Lucas, no subs till 70+ mins, surely sub decisions are based on in game merit?? not whatever time has elapsed? I have had enough, who have we beat? burnley bolton(just) its over for this guy, bring on Morihno or klinsmann. btw i was ashamed to be sat amongst people booing the other night, blimey wtf is going on.

Well there's nothing like support from people like you is there? What a ridiculous post that is.

I suppose Mystic Meg told you we're definitely gonna lose against United or did you read Russel Grant's predications on the stars?

I support lfc not blindly not rafa. How bad do you want things to get? isnt losing every game we play bad enough. "what a ridiculous post" source?

Don't worrie around here if you do any thing but kiss Rafa ar.se you are a loon. :laugh:

by **Reg** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:55 pm

neil wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
neil wrote:we say we cannot afford to sack the manager but surely we must be at a crossroads. Losing the amount of games we have so far this season is a disgrace, the next game...which we will lose...must end the incumbent managers tenure. I'm happy we've merited a top 8 in europe monica for the last few years but this has come to an end, we will not finish top 4 this year. We need a new perspective, I'm tired of Rafas dogmatic approach, zonal defending, Lucas, no subs till 70+ mins, surely sub decisions are based on in game merit?? not whatever time has elapsed? I have had enough, who have we beat? burnley bolton(just) its over for this guy, bring on Morihno or klinsmann. btw i was ashamed to be sat amongst people booing the other night, blimey wtf is going on.

Well there's nothing like support from people like you is there? What a ridiculous post that is.

I suppose Mystic Meg told you we're definitely gonna lose against United or did you read Russel Grant's predications on the stars?

I support lfc not blindly not rafa. How bad do you want things to get? isnt losing every game we play bad enough. "what a ridiculous post" source?

Here you go son, whats good for the others is good for you:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAVoQfoU0dQ

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