Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bermenstein** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:00 pm

puroresu wrote:
Bermenstein wrote:I would like to see Gerard take over from Benitez....in about 7-8 years maybe!
I know we're having a mucky season, and at some stage everybody has been pointing the finger at Rafa, but when everybody's blood cools down again, hopefully Rafa will be given a chance to rectify the minor crisis at Anfield at the moment.
But with 1 out of 2 Champions League Final wins & an FA cup too, that aint too bad a CV for his first 4 years as boss.
I think it would be fairly harsh if he were given the boot over this fiasco.
The ultimate requirement for me this season is to finish no Lower than 4th in the Prem. The ChampLeague is a bonus, but 4th is essential to build for next season. I would be very suprised if we cannot at least manage 4th this year. If we do not, then I think my opinion would surely change.
But I believe Rafa will achieve the crucial 4th spot.

Walk on.

The ultimate requirement for me was to be in the title race and Rafa has failed to do that. Why suddenly cos we have blown it does 4th and way behind become acceptable?

Yes the ultimate requirement was a title contending season, no doubts about that. But now, with hindsight and in the cold light of Day, the fundamental goal at the moment for Rafa is the crucial 4th spot.

If this is not achieved, well then the criticism would be more appropriate.

Surely he could be given a final oportunity to establish what he so wants to achieve here if we finish 4th or better?

Is he really that Bad to boot him out now?

Has he changed so much from being a great manager to being rubbish?

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:09 pm

dawson99 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:This thread's a disgrace.

why? because some of us fans think we deserve better than what we are getting?

some people, and you can disagree, think the lpayers arent playing for the manager, or the manager is doing something wrong...

I won't disagree here. People do often misunderstand my stance on the whole situation. But fact is fact. We currently still have a manager at this club who is still trying to a job regardless of what people's opinions are on how well he's doing it or not. Rafa is still boss. To be talking about replacements already when so much is still uncertain is a joke. It's alright to support him and give him credit in Europe but want him fired for league performances anyway? Hypocritical. Can't have it both ways.

by **dawson99** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:15 pm

not hypocritical at all. the only reason we do well in cups/europe (dont count fa cup debacle on saturday) is because he rotates so much, keeping us out of the league.

we want the league. no matter what hes done in cups, we need consistency in the league as well

by **Judge** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:05 pm

dawson99 wrote:not hypocritical at all. the only reason we do well in cups/europe (dont count fa cup debacle on saturday) is because he rotates so much, keeping us out of the league.

we want the league. no matter what hes done in cups, we need consistency in the league as well

i dont think thats his intention, its just his managerial way he percieves things

by **big al** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:08 pm

Everyones very good at counting the cost of Rafa's spending maybe someone here could put a price to the following players so we can see how much Rafa has invested in the youth and reserve team structure so here goes

Name Age
Miki Roque 20
Godwin Antwi 20
Ronald Huth 19
Martin Hansen 18
Kristian Nemeth 19
Peter Gulacsi 18
Jordy Brouwer 20
Damien Plessis 20
Dean Bouzanis 18
Paul anderson 20 cost £1m
Ryan Crowther 20
Andras Simon 18
Nikolay Milayzov 20
Fransico Duran 20
Scott Carson 22 £1m
Emiliano Insua 19
Mikel San Jose Dominguez 19
Astrit Ajdarevic 18
Gary Mackay Steven 18
Alex Kacaniklic 17
martin Pourie 17
Jack Hobbs 19 £0.75M
David Martin 22

this does not include the two Irish alads at the academy who would cost albeit not very much.
In terms of benitez not spotting a bargain Scott Carson is worth a lot more than benitez paid.

by **Owzat** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:24 pm

I read a rumour that we're lining up Martin O'Neill, is that how bad it really is? I know some rate him very highly but a quick if whimsical look at him compared to Rafa suggests it would be a step backwards off a cliff!

Rafa won the Spanish league with Valencia, not one of the top sides but in one of the top European leagues. He also won the UEFA CUp.

Martin O'Neill "did ok" with Leicester winning a couple of mickey mouse cups but did little special with them in the league by managing 8th. He went to Celtic and won the SPL which isn't exactly in the same league as winning the Spanish league with Valencia.

So Martin O'Neill will manager to best what Rafa's done?!?!?! It's not a gamble I'm happy to go with, four or five years of him might make me think about supporting the bitters! (just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding - I mean committing suicide, the other is unthinkable)

by **redtrader74** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:39 pm

Owzat wrote:I read a rumour that we're lining up Martin O'Neill, is that how bad it really is? I know some rate him very highly but a quick if whimsical look at him compared to Rafa suggests it would be a step backwards off a cliff!

Rafa won the Spanish league with Valencia, not one of the top sides but in one of the top European leagues. He also won the UEFA CUp.

Martin O'Neill "did ok" with Leicester winning a couple of mickey mouse cups but did little special with them in the league by managing 8th. He went to Celtic and won the SPL which isn't exactly in the same league as winning the Spanish league with Valencia.

So Martin O'Neill will manager to best what Rafa's done?!?!?! It's not a gamble I'm happy to go with, four or five years of him might make me think about supporting the bitters! (just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding - I mean committing suicide, the other is unthinkable)

Martin O'Neill is a good manager, thats all, nothing special, it is quite simple, most of the journalists like him and get on with him, probabaly because he has not been at a high pressure role and he is 'one of our own'. There has and always will be a bias towards British managers who are affable, just like they all love Redknapp, average again. Fergie used to get lots of bad press once, but when he bacame the only really decent non-foreign manager he bacame a 'genius', and they all kiss his as s now. O'Neill would not be a good choice IMO.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:00 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
heimdall wrote:Are you pro or anti rafa Judge?? Because we don't need any more rose tinted mods.

The mods are both divided on this issue, whats with the stupid comment?

stupop commint LEeerrooooy !!!! la la la rafi bonifire

More to follow...

haha how is you lando aint spoke to you in a while.

Whats going on in that head of yours ?

Not bad mate, not bad.

In answer to your question:

Many things.

by **lakes10** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:27 pm

Read this.

• Chelsea manager Avram Grant:
"If you want to become a bigger club, you must be in the final and then do more.

"You cannot say we are getting bigger if we don't get to the final"

..........................................

to me that sums up why we should get a British manager next time, oversea's manager see the CL as the be all end all of football.

If we wish to win the Prem we need a manager that will work on the prem.

I dont think it would be that bad if we ended up 5th this year, If Rafa is still the manager at that time (can not see that myself) it would give him a chance to show what he can do in the Prem without the CL getting in the way.

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:55 pm

lakes10 wrote:Read this.

• Chelsea manager Avram Grant:
"If you want to become a bigger club, you must be in the final and then do more.

"You cannot say we are getting bigger if we don't get to the final"

..........................................

to me that sums up why we should get a British manager next time, oversea's manager see the CL as the be all end all of football.

If we wish to win the Prem we need a manager that will work on the prem.

I dont think it would be that bad if we ended up 5th this year, If Rafa is still the manager at that time (can not see that myself) it would give him a chance to show what he can do in the Prem without the CL getting in the way.

Right. So name a Brit manager that is capable of winning the Prem.

by **Reg** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:18 pm

To put it even more plainly, we need a manager and players who understand the importance to the fans of winning the league, not just a manager.

Today´s squad dont have the same fire that their former team mates did to win the league.

The expectations of the fans, manager and players and out of sync.

by **Toffeehater** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:20 pm

big al wrote:Everyones very good at counting the cost of Rafa's spending maybe someone here could put a price to the following players so we can see how much Rafa has invested in the youth and reserve team structure so here goes

Name Age
Miki Roque 20
Godwin Antwi 20
Ronald Huth 19
Martin Hansen 18
Kristian Nemeth 19
Peter Gulacsi 18
Jordy Brouwer 20
Damien Plessis 20
Dean Bouzanis 18
Paul anderson 20 cost £1m
Ryan Crowther 20
Andras Simon 18
Nikolay Milayzov 20
Fransico Duran 20
Scott Carson 22 £1m
Emiliano Insua 19
Mikel San Jose Dominguez 19
Astrit Ajdarevic 18
Gary Mackay Steven 18
Alex Kacaniklic 17
martin Pourie 17
Jack Hobbs 19 £0.75M
David Martin 22

this does not include the two Irish alads at the academy who would cost albeit not very much.
In terms of benitez not spotting a bargain Scott Carson is worth a lot more than benitez paid.

sorry my memory's abit bad at the moment , remind me how many of this players have actually started a first team match or even featured at all?? Carson yes is a bargin but at the moment its not looking like the 10 mill transfer that we supposed to get for him

by **Toffeehater** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:23 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Read this.

• Chelsea manager Avram Grant:
"If you want to become a bigger club, you must be in the final and then do more.

"You cannot say we are getting bigger if we don't get to the final"

..........................................

to me that sums up why we should get a British manager next time, oversea's manager see the CL as the be all end all of football.

If we wish to win the Prem we need a manager that will work on the prem.

I dont think it would be that bad if we ended up 5th this year, If Rafa is still the manager at that time (can not see that myself) it would give him a chance to show what he can do in the Prem without the CL getting in the way.

Right. So name a Brit manager that is capable of winning the Prem.

Steve Macclaren mate , he's one of the best

:wwww

yea right

by **Thinkpad** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:24 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
Thinkpad wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:I think O'neil would do a good job.

He understands the british game
He has never had any money to spend.. he may still not, but more than he ever has had
He has worked at a big(ish) club with Celtic. (OK Small club in a teeney tiny pond)
Has always been linked to the Liverpool Job

I like him and would like to see him given a chance to manage a really big club. He seems like a back to basics type of manager, play your best players in their best positions..

Good thinking but may not be too feasible at the momment, me think. I still think he need more time on tactics and gain other experience. Would he be good to us? Absolutely. But the best to manage us now? Nope, soon.. but not now.

I don't really understand your thinking...

We all talk about getting a "big name" manager in. How do you know that a manager who has had sucess at a smaller club, (which O'Neil has had with every club he has been at) couldnt step up when he is backed by a trully big club.

Club management depends on lots of things:-

Money
Backing from the board
Fans support
Tradition
Back Room Staff
Players respect
Understanding of the basics of the game
Ability to spot talent
Motivational skills

A lot of these things are not available to managers of smaller clubs. Give him the chance and he may be the next top manager.

Well I did support him before Rafa came. I really wanted him to take over Houllier but you know how he was immediately shot down. I thought he was worth a shot. Even now, I still think he may make it. But we need a real rebuilding now, in fact total rebuilding. Rip the club a part and dig out what is hindering the club.

I strongly believe someone "tough", a disciplinarian with huge experience will make the journey so much more realistic. This is the most crutial time, we can't afford to make mistakes now as decisions made will either enhance or impede the club further. Once the framework and stability is established (which will take 3-5 years), a hand over to Martin O'neil will be perfect. Timing somehow is everything..

by **MR C** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:48 pm

rafa is above o'neil in achievement in the prem.

i don't like the dips in the season that o'neils teams have.they sometimes start well then fall away,or start bad then catch up....explain to me how this is different from what we already have.

we need a manager who can keep the team strong all through the season.
i don't like rafa and want him out,but i'm convinced if he brought in a charismatic number 2 who is older
and wiser then there would be no need to boot him out.

we need a bobby robson type number 2 who is just lives for footy.a guy who rafa would listen to and respect.this guy would pass on tips and tricks to players so the could improve....rafa does not have any tips or tricks,if he did he would have used them as a player.

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So who do you want to replace him ?

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