Liverpool FC Forum

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:26 pm

What if Hicks is planning or has already bought out Gillet's shares? That would explain why he only mentions himself as a future owner of LFC. I pray to God that isn't true.

by **ste123lfc** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:29 pm

ruskiy playmaker wrote:What if Hicks is planning or has already bought out Gillet's shares? That would explain why he only mentions himself as a future owner of LFC. I pray to God that isn't true.

I don't think he would do that. He seems to be an honourable man who doesn't go back on his word.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:04 pm

http://www.youtube.com/v/F2IXgUebtDQ

This is a real business man. Why did we settle for much less? :down:

by **maguskwt** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:27 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:One thing is for sure, word from Gillett on anything at all recently is very, very conspicuous by its absence.

I find this sentence very hard to understand...

by **Bammo** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:57 pm

maguskwt wrote:
ivor_the_injun wrote:One thing is for sure, word from Gillett on anything at all recently is very, very conspicuous by its absence.

I find this sentence very hard to understand...

It's perfectly simple to understand!

Gillet not talking may not raise no doubts about him not having no non-involvement in not running no part of the club.

Clear now

by **heimdall** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:09 pm

I'd like to see DIC come out and state that they want to buy the club and have already held talks with Gillet, that would put massive pressure on Hicks to sell.

I also think it is very interesting that Gillet hasn't commented on any of this, surely if everything was fine and dandy as Hicks claims then they would be issuing a joint statement.

Come on DIC buy us please!! :buttrock

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:22 pm

heimdall wrote:I'd like to see DIC come out and state that they want to buy the club and have already held talks with Gillet, that would put massive pressure on Hicks to sell.

I also think it is very interesting that Gillet hasn't commented on any of this, surely if everything was fine and dandy as Hicks claims then they would be issuing a joint statement.

Come on DIC buy us please!!

gillet is willing to sell but hicks wants to co partner with DIC , probaly hoping for a windfall if they buy us , bloody dirty sc.um

I hope if DIC do buy us , DIC own us totally , as in all the shares

by **RUSHIE#9** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:30 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
heimdall wrote:I'd like to see DIC come out and state that they want to buy the club and have already held talks with Gillet, that would put massive pressure on Hicks to sell.

I also think it is very interesting that Gillet hasn't commented on any of this, surely if everything was fine and dandy as Hicks claims then they would be issuing a joint statement.

Come on DIC buy us please!!

gillet is willing to sell but hicks wants to co partner with DIC , probaly hoping for a windfall if they buy us , bloody dirty sc.um

I hope if DIC do buy us , DIC own us totally , as in all the shares

At the moment if (and it's probably a big if) DIC are negotiating to buy the club I think it's gonna be with Gillett. His silence on the matter could almost be described as deafening at the moment. Whether it's wishful thinking or not this could be down to him being involved in negotiations as a lot of "sources" are claiming contact is still ongoing.
As I see it DIC's best chance of getting their hands on the club may be to buyout Gillett and then once they have a foothold within the boardroom they may be able to oust Hicks much easier from there. (All wishful speculation at the moment though!)

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:51 pm

Found this on another forum

Exclusive by Chris Bascombe, News of the World

LIVERPOOL are praying a form of Merseyside GBH will come to their rescue — Gillett Backstabbing Hicks.

Anfield co-owner George Gillett brought his feud with partner Tom Hicks to the fore by refusing to publicly back a £350million refinancing deal.

Gillett signed up to the agreement before the February 5 deadline to protect his own investment — but privately he does not believe holding on to Liverpool is in the Americans' or the club's best interest.

His son, Foster, left his office at Melwood two weeks ago and there are no plans for his return.

It appeared Hicks had seen off the latest challenge from Dubai International Capital (DIC) by signing a debt-ridden agreement with the Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia.

But takeover talks are continuing, with DIC not walking away as they sense the split between the owners leaves the door open for a £250m bid for the whole club — beginning with a fresh move to buy Hicks' share.

The Americans have an existing £105m debt secured against the club's assets.

And even though the pair claim to have obtained less borrowing than feared, Liverpool still face £450m worth of debts once they begin work on the new stadium (below).

As well as the £105m debt, they still need a £300m loan to build the stadium.

With interest payments in the region of £18m a year, a vast transfer kitty to challenge for the title before 2011 looks non-existent.

A Kop source admitted: "The fact is, under the current financial proposals, there isn't a hope of Liverpool challenging for the title until the new stadium is built in three years. It doesn't matter whether Rafa Benitez, Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex Ferguson is in charge. It's an impossible task."

The fragility of the Americans' reign continues to make them vulnerable to the renewed interest from DIC, especially as fundamental questions remain unanswered.

It has yet to be revealed how the latest £350m loan will be repaid within an 18-month deadline, since the new stadium will not be built until 2011.

Multi-million pound interest payments will also ensure any Champions League earnings are swiftly swallowed up.

And a top-four finish is no longer a ‘minimum acceptable requirement' at Anfield — it will be essential in order to prevent financial meltdown.

That has not stopped Hicks insisting funding will be available for players. But the fact that this will come straight from the banks ought to immediately concern Reds supporters.

Hicks is holding on, despite the manager, fans and even members of his own board wanting him out.

Questions have also been raised as to how long two more established figures will survive.

Chief executive Rick Parry and former chairman David Moores now feel like strangers at their own club.

A year ago, Moores led a club £60m in debt, with a £300m bank loan the only realistic option to keep stadium plans on track. The chairman opted against this, fearing he would lack the funds to strengthen the squad. He sold to Hicks and Gillett, convinced the duo had deep pockets.

Instead, they have created a much worse scenario.

Having led the opposition to Hicks behind the scenes, Moores and Parry are attempting to win back the Kop fans who blame them for inviting the bogeyman into their club.

But the Anfield faithful are in no mood for forgiveness.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:53 pm

Link : http://www.anfieldroad.com/news....rt.html

Be wary of Hicks spin as he fights for Reds support

Posted on January 28th, 2008 by Jim Boardman

Liverpool supporters need to be careful in the coming weeks that they don’t fall for the PR spin that will undoubtedly be served up by Tom Hicks as he aims to get Liverpool supporters falling for his stories and promises once again.

He’ll use the promise of a fancy stadium and the so-called £17m signing of Javier Mascherano to boost his claims that he cares about the club, hoping that we soon forget the lies and deceit of the past few months in particular, but that have been there since the day he first spoke of his plans for the club nearly a year ago.

He’s also keen to try and play on Liverpool supporters’ mistrust of the press, a mistrust that stems back at least to 1989 when The Sun lied about Liverpool supporters and what they had done to their dying and dead fellow supporters on the day of the Hillsborough disaster. Those lies were deeply upsetting, and the ‘newspaper’ was soon boycotted. For a paper that sells over 3 million copies in the UK, it now sells just 12,000 in the Liverpool area - where it used to sell around a quarter of a million.

In deflecting the blame and trying to deny claims about him yesterday, Hicks used the word “tabloid” three times, unprompted, to try and convince listeners that he was the victim of more tabloid lies. But the stories and allegations haven’t just come from the tabloids. The broadsheets have covered the stories, as has the BBC - the whole of the media is in on the truth about Hicks. Using our mistrust of the tabloids won’t work, not for most of us anyway. He even denied having spoken to DIC yesterday, before admitting that he had after all, dismissing it as unimportant because it was “months ago”. It still happened, so denying it is still a lie! And according to more reports, he was still speaking to them last week.

Liverpool supporters certainly gave Hicks the benefit of the doubt, even when the evidence was mounting against him. Where he came unstuck was when Jurgen Klinsmann was offered the job at Bayern and more weight was added to the claims he’d been offered Rafa’s job by the owners. The minute Hicks admitted that any doubters saw the light. Hicks has not been honest. And as soon as they have seen one subject where they were wrong to trust Hicks, they started to question other subjects.

But some supporters are still far too trusting. They already falling for the words Hicks used in his statements on Friday and his interview yesterday and have started to think maybe he’s not so bad after all.

That’s a dangerous approach to take. Hicks does not deserve the benefit of the doubt any longer. Even yesterday he lied about having had contact with DIC, before admitting the truth. The best way he had of getting back the trust of the majority of the Liverpool supporters was to show that the lies were now all in the past. But that’s not how he sees it. He thinks he can still lie to supporters, that they’ll fall for it all again.

So it’s important that we don’t. Listen carefully to what he says. And make sure any supporters you know who don’t have access to the internet are also careful to read and listen carefully.

One subject Hicks will use in the coming days is the signature of Javier Mascherano. Arguably the best holding midfielder in the world - (and if he isn’t now then he soon will be) the Argentinean is currently on an 18-month loan deal at Anfield, which expires in the summer. It’s no secret that there is a £17m agreement in place to see the player stay at Anfield for five more years after that.

Hicks has now told the press that he will allow the signing to go ahead - after he’d blocked it back in October when he told Rafa to shut up and coach.

So, surely, if Hicks is willing to find £17m from somewhere he must have the club’s best interests at heart? Not exactly. But he’ll be happy to see the headlines make it look that way. He will be happy to see the tabloids work for him in this instance. Except the deal isn’t quite what it sounds.

This was rumoured some time ago, but The Liverpool Way fanzine say they’ve now had confirmation that it’s true. The £17m covers everything - the fees to the owners of the player, and the player’s wages - for five years. It doesn’t even have to be paid up-front. The whole amount can be spread over five years, at a rate of under £3.5m per year. Mascherano’s owners will get a fee of a few million - at most £4m if Mascherano’s wages are £50k per week.

With the departure of Momo Sissoko looking close to happening, if not now then in the summer, the club will in effect be better off. They’ll save on Momo’s wages, and they’ll get around £9m in from his transfer. If it all works out then it’s going to be quite a deal, but not because of the generosity of Hicks, purely because of how Rafa will have exchanged Momo for Mascherano, and with change left over.

The same website have also got wind of how a big chunk of money has been spent with little to show for it. £15m has been spent on getting four different sets of plans drawn up for the stadium, and also on the services so far of a consultancy firm who’ll be liaising between the club, the architects and the builders. All that money spent, a third of the amount the club was in debt by prior to the takeover, and nothing more to show for it than some admittedly impressive drawings of a stadium that still can’t be built. There’s going to be another long process needed now to get the various permissions in place, which if successful will mean some work can finally start on building - but not too much, because very little of the required finance is in place for that. The club still need to get a £300m loan before they can finish the stadium, which is already going to be a finished a year later than promised at takeover.

So whilst it seems money is no object when it comes to getting drawings done, there are still issues with Hicks over just how his policy on transfers stands up to scrutiny. Last summer’s spending should not have required any borrowing, the club having brought in more than in previous seasons, and having spent much the same as in previous seasons. The Champions League income alone was higher than the net spending on transfers.

Martin Skrtel’s signature came in January, and is used by Hicks as a pointer to his intentions, to somehow prove that he’s now fully supportive of the boss. Skrtel’s fee was slightly less than Rafa had left over in his budget from the summer after the Gabriel Heinze move fell through, and will be paid in instalments over the next few seasons. The first payment for Javier Mascherano won’t be due until the summer, and in any case it doesn’t take much to work out that Momo Sissoko’s sale (£9m) would be enough to pay for both Mascherano’s first year (£3.4m), and Skrtel’s full fee (£5.6m).

Of course Skrtel’s fee doesn’t have to be paid in full just yet, and with Rafa interested in signing Pablo Aimar, a player he worked with at Valencia from Real Zaragoza, part of the Momo money could be used for the Argentinean playmaker. Whether or not this deal can go through in the last couple of days of the transfer window remains to be seen, if it does then perhaps it will work out that a little investment in the squad has finally been forthcoming, although of course that can soon be cancelled out by sales in the summer.

The big problem here is that we are talking of relatively small amounts of investment in the team after prize money and sales have been taken off. Investment of literally just a few million pounds, when the club is going to have to pay the interest on a massive total of £350m in loans.

Before the takeover we had our eyes on a new stadium and we had debt of around £45m, we also needed investment in the playing squad to allow us to compete with our rivals. A year later and we are now in debt, directly and indirectly, of £350m, and that’s before the stadium costs are included.

This loan has just bought them time, it only lasts for 18 months, and seeing as it’s already taken them 12 months to come up with a set of stadium plans that they think they will be able to afford then it’s easy to see just how short that time is. It took them nearly six months to get this interim loan, how long will it take to get the funding for the stadium. And Hicks refused to speak about the debt when interviewed by Five Live - and so we don’t know what rate of interest this finance has been taken out at. What was Hicks hiding? Where is George Gillett, if the deal is as good as Hicks says?

So please, don’t fall for the Hicks spin, and do all you can to warn fellow supporters, with or without the internet, that the battle mustn’t be allowed to fizzle out now. Hicks is not to be trusted - and even though he asks to be judged on actions instead of other people’s words, his own words are also something he can be judged on. His own words feature lies and broken promises. His actions have seen us lose ground in the battle to be a contender for the title and very little else.

On Thursday night there’s a meeting of various people involved in LFC websites, fanzines, associations, clubs and so on to discuss what can be done to continue putting the pressure on the owners. I’m hoping to be there too. If you’ve got any ideas on showing the owners that this battle goes on, that we won’t be lied to, that we want our club back, if not completely then at least in the hands of owners who think winning might be more important than “fan affinity”, then please either leave them as a comment under this article, or post them on one of the forums of the sites supporting the LFC Supporters Network.

Remember, no matter how much you want to trust Mr Hicks, his past actions have shown that we’ve never got to take his word for it on any issue, at the very, very least we’ve got to let him know that we’re watching his every step. Please don’t let yourselves fall for the spin.

-----------------------------------------------

Interesting thing is here it states 15 million for the stadium design so why has Hicks said the price is 50 million?
50 million on a stadium design for a few pictures seems an awful lot of money to me its probably getting laundered in some off shore bank account.

Another little t!t bit of info HKS has a Gerry Hicks as the vice president it would be no suprise if he is a relation to Hicks.

by **woof woof !** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:16 pm

CIG,I KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT, I KNOW IT'S RELEVANT BUT I JUST WISH WE COULD GET BACK TO THE FOOTY

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:23 pm

Thanks for these articles Ciggy! It's very important that we don't forget about these lies.

by **TwelthMan** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:58 pm

Ciggy wrote:Be wary of Hicks spin as he fights for Reds support

Posted on January 28th, 2008 by Jim Boardman

So please, don’t fall for the Hicks spin, and do all you can to warn fellow supporters, with or without the internet, that the battle mustn’t be allowed to fizzle out now. Hicks is not to be trusted - and even though he asks to be judged on actions instead of other people’s words, his own words are also something he can be judged on. His own words feature lies and broken promises. His actions have seen us lose ground in the battle to be a contender for the title and very little else.

On Thursday night there’s a meeting of various people involved in LFC websites, fanzines, associations, clubs and so on to discuss what can be done to continue putting the pressure on the owners. I’m hoping to be there too. If you’ve got any ideas on showing the owners that this battle goes on, that we won’t be lied to, that we want our club back, if not completely then at least in the hands of owners who think winning might be more important than “fan affinity”, then please either leave them as a comment under this article, or post them on one of the forums of the sites supporting the LFC Supporters Network.

Remember, no matter how much you want to trust Mr Hicks, his past actions have shown that we’ve never got to take his word for it on any issue, at the very, very least we’ve got to let him know that we’re watching his every step. Please don’t let yourselves fall for the spin.

-----------------------------------------------

Interesting thing is here it states 15 million for the stadium design so why has Hicks said the price is 50 million?
50 million on a stadium design for a few pictures seems an awful lot of money to me its probably getting laundered in some off shore bank account.

Another little t!t bit of info HKS has a Gerry Hicks as the vice president it would be no suprise if he is a relation to Hicks.

Although I'm a new poster and people will tend to ignore or shout down new posters, I want to propose a serious idea. I would like all those fans who really care to come under the banner of 'Kick Hicks out of Liverpool' and make this our campaign goal. The guy really is the worst possible thing for our club's legacy -both financially, and how we come across as a club.

I call to those established members such as Ciggy et al, to support this campaign. Can someone post a new thread entitled 'Kick Hicks out of Liverpool' where all discussions and plans can be posted? I would do it but feel more likely to be taken seriously if an established member starts it.

If every fan's forum begins a similar initiative this 'Kick Hicks out of Liverpool' campaign can become a catchphrase and known and discussed within the media - I predict an unstoppable domino effect - a gathering juggernaut of anti-Hicksism which becomes so strong Hicks finally admits defeat.

We have so much material and evidence on this guy already that the campaign can be a sensible and well informed one.

For example, any computer whizzes out there can create an anti Hicks website, e.g. called tomhicks.com as a counter measure against his absurd PR campaign to win us over - let's show him and the world that we can see right through his lies.

Of course some detractors will say that this is taking away the focus of the football and supporting the team - I say there will be no team or decent football if this situation is allowed to continue. Others may say let's give Hicks a chance since he has come up with the goods at last - I say it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to realise he has come up with nothing, it's all a sham, pulling wool over our eyes, and we must act now.

by **tommycockles** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:12 pm

TwelthMan wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Be wary of Hicks spin as he fights for Reds support

Posted on January 28th, 2008 by Jim Boardman

So please, don’t fall for the Hicks spin, and do all you can to warn fellow supporters, with or without the internet, that the battle mustn’t be allowed to fizzle out now. Hicks is not to be trusted - and even though he asks to be judged on actions instead of other people’s words, his own words are also something he can be judged on. His own words feature lies and broken promises. His actions have seen us lose ground in the battle to be a contender for the title and very little else.

On Thursday night there’s a meeting of various people involved in LFC websites, fanzines, associations, clubs and so on to discuss what can be done to continue putting the pressure on the owners. I’m hoping to be there too. If you’ve got any ideas on showing the owners that this battle goes on, that we won’t be lied to, that we want our club back, if not completely then at least in the hands of owners who think winning might be more important than “fan affinity”, then please either leave them as a comment under this article, or post them on one of the forums of the sites supporting the LFC Supporters Network.

Remember, no matter how much you want to trust Mr Hicks, his past actions have shown that we’ve never got to take his word for it on any issue, at the very, very least we’ve got to let him know that we’re watching his every step. Please don’t let yourselves fall for the spin.

-----------------------------------------------

Interesting thing is here it states 15 million for the stadium design so why has Hicks said the price is 50 million?
50 million on a stadium design for a few pictures seems an awful lot of money to me its probably getting laundered in some off shore bank account.

Another little t!t bit of info HKS has a Gerry Hicks as the vice president it would be no suprise if he is a relation to Hicks.

Although I'm a new poster and people will tend to ignore or shout down new posters, I want to propose a serious idea. I would like all those fans who really care to come under the banner of 'Kick Hicks out of Liverpool' and make this our campaign goal. The guy really is the worst possible thing for our club's legacy -both financially, and how we come across as a club.

I call to those established members such as Ciggy et al, to support this campaign. Can someone post a new thread entitled 'Kick Hicks out of Liverpool' where all discussions and plans can be posted? I would do it but feel more likely to be taken seriously if an established member starts it.

If every fan's forum begins a similar initiative this 'Kick Hicks out of Liverpool' campaign can become a catchphrase and known and discussed within the media - I predict an unstoppable domino effect - a gathering juggernaut of anti-Hicksism which becomes so strong Hicks finally admits defeat.

We have so much material and evidence on this guy already that the campaign can be a sensible and well informed one.

For example, any computer whizzes out there can create an anti Hicks website, e.g. called tomhicks.com as a counter measure against his absurd PR campaign to win us over - let's show him and the world that we can see right through his lies.

Of course some detractors will say that this is taking away the focus of the football and supporting the team - I say there will be no team or decent football if this situation is allowed to continue. Others may say let's give Hicks a chance since he has come up with the goods at last - I say it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to realise he has come up with nothing, it's all a sham, pulling wool over our eyes, and we must act now.

well said, at least with a new thread it won't detract from the football as people don't have to read it if they don't want to. I suspect they will though as unless Hick's goes we will always wonder what we could be achieving with straight-forward owners that care about the club in the long-term (not that he cares at all).

Who going to take up the mantel?

by **Ciggy** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:36 pm

TwelthMan wrote:I call to those established members such as Ciggy et al, to support this campaign. Can someone post a new thread entitled 'Kick Hicks out of Liverpool' where all discussions and plans can be posted? I would do it but feel more likely to be taken seriously if an established member starts it.

I think its a great idea mate, but some here have already fallen for the PR bollox, I wont start the topic as it would get locked maybe someone else can.

Hicks has to go I feel the club cannot progress with him at the helm.

And woof I know it sounds like Im moaning about them all the time and wish none of this would have happened, but all this has ruined our season, the club is up in the air even after they got the new loan.

In 18 months time when they need another loan to re finance this one plus another loan for the stadium all this is going to happen again.

So as far as I can see the only way for the club to get back to normality is if these two sell up.

* Haven't put any money into the club, but bought it on the never-never.

* Haven't invested in the playing squad the way they implied pre-Athens.

* Promised to have spades in the ground for the new stadium within sixty days of taking over. A year on and they've spent 50 million fecking about with designs they can't afford or don't have planning permission for.

* Promised not to put debt on the club, and yet by the time the stadium is built we will be servicing the biggest debt of any club in the world, whether it's secured against the club's assets or the holding company whose only asset is the club.

* Deliberately misled us in the press on numerous occasions.

* Have unsettled the manager and the team.

* Have fallen out with each other and the board.

We needed an investor with pockets as deep as Abramovich but what we got where two tw@ts who have put the club in financial turmoil, the manager in turmoil along with the players and fans and will be off to the pawn shop again soon maybe with Gerrard and Torres.

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