Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:34 am

LIVERPOOL

YEAR PRE-TAX PROFIT
2006 -5.1
2005 9.5
2004 -21
2003 3.6

Anyone see anything there that would indicate we can pay £50million interest per annum ?link

by **The Manhattan Project** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:39 am

You speak of ronaldo but avoid mention of the total cost of the present manure team which negated your original statement of "its not about splashing the cash"

Actually I said "it's not ALL about splashing the cash".

Meaning you need to spend....but that alone will not bring success.

you talk of wengers PRESENT team but avoid how long it took to build his past teams ! DID wenger achieve instant success at the gooners??

Are you crazy? He won the DOUBLE in his SECOND season.

as for OWEN he was a class player that seems to have been crocked> that doesn't alter the point that fu.kin NEWCASTLE were given enough cash to outbid us for a player we wanted does it ??

Yep...that's the fault of Gillett and Hicks.

Rafa didn't even want Owen.

BUT they also bought Keane (RECORD FOR A MIDFIELD PLAYER)

Pallister (Record for a defender)
Bruce (huge fee)
Parker (big fee)
York (huge fee)
Cole (big fee)

So they didn't exactly do it on a shoestring budget

As I said, it's a combination of wise spending and creating a solid team. Man Utd have done that through good decisions and for the most part identifying quality.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:54 am

s@int wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
s@int wrote:
Manchester United: £550m
Liverpool: £350m
Arsenal: £272m
Chelsea: £270m
Fulham: £159m

Spot the one that needs more money (debt) to pay for their new stadium

Yes another 400 million, 750 million in debt total and there is some dosy @rses here that actually think they will build that stadium HA.

Oh s.hit, this is where you start feeling for the club. I dont want us to do a 'Leeds' kin ell, that would be one of the most sorry state of affairs to happen in football, apart from Hillsborough and Heysel of course and infact to any football supporter who has lost their life watching a game of football.

We may not go down the Leeds route, but we could well become and average Prem side in the future like Villa or someone, because most of the revenue coming in would surely have to go back into the debt thats been made.

How do United do it though ?

So they took over Liverpool to place themselves and the club at a loss, refinanced the loans to place themselves even more in debt knowing that the future doesnt look to good either and the rest of the businesses will suffer to compensate the debt that has been acquired at LFC?

So just explain to me again how we are going to pay interest of approx £50million p.a.

Just seen this so sorry for the delay, in answer to your question how the bugger do I know? I still owe a tenner for 2 packs of baccy so im buggered if I know how to pay back that lot !

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:03 am

Man utd Pre-tax profit

2006 -3.5
2005 -8.7
2004 27.9
2003 39.3
2002 32.3

link

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:05 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Really this is not about winning the title or finishing 4th even , it's not about a nice new stadium ,or if the 2 yanks have x amount of dollars and the arabs have y amount . IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CLUB you clueless glory hunting prats. Yer see when it comes down to it ,this is what being a supporter is all about . you support the club and everything it stands for . It's history it's tradition ,the kit colour the badge ,the smell the atmosphere. Get it . If all you want is titles and leagues and £30 million pound players and you want it now .Well go and get them ,cos there are other clubs that have them whilst we don't .
I think i'll stick around for a bit with the people i know want the best for my club and not just another shiny new stadium . I'll stay here with the people who won't accept being sh!t on from a great hieght as soon as we see the pound signs flashing . The club means alot to me ,more than you would know ,i will not see it ruined by you ,your american idols ,DIC or anyone .Take agood look at yourselves you know who you are.

EXACTLY!

I for one couldn't give a flying f*ck if we stayed at Anfield. I'd prefere that we did. I grew up with that place, so the new staduim will never seem right even if we were to move there tomorrow. There's been so much passion and heartache felt in those stands and in this club, to trade it all for a heartless franchise or business would be to besmirch the ghost of Shanks, Paisley and the 96 and everyone else who has lived and breathed this football club.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:33 am

Rafael Benítez was finally assured he has a long-term future as Liverpool manager last night after Tom Hicks and George Gillett ensured their own survival at the club by completing a £350m refinancing package.
Months of uncertainty over the Spaniard's position at Anfield plus plans for a new stadium and the co-chairmen's ownership of Liverpool appeared to come to an end yesterday when the Americans strengthened their hold on their initial £185m investment. First they unveiled revised designs for a 71,000-seat stadium from the Dallas-based architects HKS, then it was confirmed the pair had secured a £350m loan from the Royal Bank of Scotland and US bank Wachovia and, finally, Hicks gave Benítez his first show of public support since a rift developed between them last November. He also indicated the Spaniard would see out the final 2½ years of his Liverpool contract.

Gillett was a notable absentee from the refinancing statement and the stadium design package, however, indicating the Americans' working relationship remains under strain. Dubai International Capital, who have been frustrated in their attempts to buy into the club, remain poised to capitalise on any split but know the current owners can now demand a substantial profit to walk away.
Hicks has given no indication that he is prepared to sell and, for the Texan, yesterday's stadium proposals and the loan that will allow work to commence on the development represent a personal triumph. Acutely aware of the need to regain favour with a disillusioned fanbase, he also stated his faith in Benítez.

"Since the meeting with Rafa on December 16, at which some widely reported communications issues were discussed, Rafa has been assured that he has continuing and enthusiastic support as the club's manager," Hicks said in a statement. "Reflecting that support, Kop [Holdings] recently approved his transfer payment request to sign Martin Skrtel for £6.5m and is in discussions with Rafa and club management regarding additional player signings this summer. Rafa is under contract for two more seasons following this season. I am solidly behind Rafa and am confident of the team's competitive prospects under his continuing leadership." Those "additional player signings" involve completing the £17m transfer of the on-loan Argentinian midfielder Javier Mascherano and a move for his compatriot the Real Zaragoza forward Pablo Aimar.

The £350m refinancing package will enable Hicks and Gillett to repay loans used to purchase Liverpool last February and has burdened the club with debt of £105m, money that will be used to commence construction work on the Stanley Park site, fund signings this summer and meet the club's working capital needs.

"The other £245m," said the statement, "will be at the holding company level and was used to refinance the £60m of debt that was on the club's books at the time of last year's acquisition as well as the loan related to the share purchase at that time. The overall financing is being supported by a combination of owner cash, letters of credit and personal guarantees totalling £225m, ensuring that the club remains on a sound financial footing."

Hicks added: "This new financing package is a strong vote of confidence in the club's financial strength and a recognition of the exceptional opportunity represented by the construction of the club's new state-of-the-art stadium at Stanley Park."

Liverpool's new stadium is now due to open in August 2011, a year later than Hicks and Gillett had originally envisaged, but work can begin immediately with £60m provided by the RBS and Wachovia. The club has planning permission for a 60,000-seater arena but, as the new design does not exceed the existing footprint, they do not expect the proposals to be called in. A further £300m loan will be required to complete the development.

The striker Andriy Voronin has been ruled out for six weeks following surgery on an ankle ligament injury.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:34 am

Emerald Red wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Really this is not about winning the title or finishing 4th even , it's not about a nice new stadium ,or if the 2 yanks have x amount of dollars and the arabs have y amount . IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CLUB you clueless glory hunting prats. Yer see when it comes down to it ,this is what being a supporter is all about . you support the club and everything it stands for . It's history it's tradition ,the kit colour the badge ,the smell the atmosphere. Get it . If all you want is titles and leagues and £30 million pound players and you want it now .Well go and get them ,cos there are other clubs that have them whilst we don't .
I think i'll stick around for a bit with the people i know want the best for my club and not just another shiny new stadium . I'll stay here with the people who won't accept being sh!t on from a great hieght as soon as we see the pound signs flashing . The club means alot to me ,more than you would know ,i will not see it ruined by you ,your american idols ,DIC or anyone .Take agood look at yourselves you know who you are.

EXACTLY!

I for one couldn't give a flying f*ck if we stayed at Anfield. I'd prefere that we did. I grew up with that place, so the new staduim will never seem right even if we were to move there tomorrow. There's been so much passion and heartache felt in those stands and in this club, to trade it all for a heartless franchise or business would be to besmirch the ghost of Shanks, Paisley and the 96 and everyone else who has lived and breathed this football club.

unfortunately a move is necessary to generate income to make the club move forward. It is a shame we cannot expand the current stadium but times are changing. And not many people like change.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:43 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Really this is not about winning the title or finishing 4th even , it's not about a nice new stadium ,or if the 2 yanks have x amount of dollars and the arabs have y amount . IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CLUB you clueless glory hunting prats. Yer see when it comes down to it ,this is what being a supporter is all about . you support the club and everything it stands for . It's history it's tradition ,the kit colour the badge ,the smell the atmosphere. Get it . If all you want is titles and leagues and £30 million pound players and you want it now .Well go and get them ,cos there are other clubs that have them whilst we don't .
I think i'll stick around for a bit with the people i know want the best for my club and not just another shiny new stadium . I'll stay here with the people who won't accept being sh!t on from a great hieght as soon as we see the pound signs flashing . The club means alot to me ,more than you would know ,i will not see it ruined by you ,your american idols ,DIC or anyone .Take agood look at yourselves you know who you are.

EXACTLY!

I for one couldn't give a flying f*ck if we stayed at Anfield. I'd prefere that we did. I grew up with that place, so the new staduim will never seem right even if we were to move there tomorrow. There's been so much passion and heartache felt in those stands and in this club, to trade it all for a heartless franchise or business would be to besmirch the ghost of Shanks, Paisley and the 96 and everyone else who has lived and breathed this football club.

unfortunately a move is necessary to generate income to make the club move forward. It is a shame we cannot expand the current stadium but times are changing. And not many people like change.

We can expand the stadium, but it was considered unfeasable to expand it to more than 55,000. That was however when the cost of a new stadium was estimated at something under £200million. With the huge cost increases since then maybe its time we had another look at the feasability of expansion?

by **Espionage** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:43 am

Been traveling South-East Asia so its been hard to stay on top of everything that has been going on.

I really hope all this :censored:

gets sorted out because our results need to get better fast. G&H need to come out and make another public announcement, but not like the last couple which have only caused fear for the fans and instability for our Manager. They need to come out, be honest, and put things right because at the rate they are going they are going to be reaping a whirlwind of angry angry fans.

Whatever they do, we will still support Liverpool, but some G&H's actions I am finding hard to take...

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:51 am

We can expand the stadium, but it was considered unfeasable to expand it to more than 55,000. That was however when the cost of a new stadium was estimated at something under £200million. With the huge cost increases since then maybe its time we had another look at the feasability of expansion?

I didnt know that, I always thought expansion was just simply a no no, id be all for expanding the current stadium.

Been traveling South-East Asia so its been hard to stay on top of everything that has been going on.

I really hope all this gets sorted out because our results need to get better fast. G&H need to come out and make another public announcement, but not like the last couple which have only caused fear for the fans and instability for our Manager. They need to come out, be honest, and put things right because at the rate they are going they are going to be reaping a whirlwind of angry angry fans.

Whatever they do, we will still support Liverpool, but some G&H's actions I am finding hard to take...

It doesnt matter how many public announcements they make, most have already made up there mind. The feeling im getting is even if the new stadium is built, even if masherano is signed permanent, even if money is made available for star players. They will be sucking the life out of LFC and regarded as scum.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:57 am

s@int wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Really this is not about winning the title or finishing 4th even , it's not about a nice new stadium ,or if the 2 yanks have x amount of dollars and the arabs have y amount . IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CLUB you clueless glory hunting prats. Yer see when it comes down to it ,this is what being a supporter is all about . you support the club and everything it stands for . It's history it's tradition ,the kit colour the badge ,the smell the atmosphere. Get it . If all you want is titles and leagues and £30 million pound players and you want it now .Well go and get them ,cos there are other clubs that have them whilst we don't .
I think i'll stick around for a bit with the people i know want the best for my club and not just another shiny new stadium . I'll stay here with the people who won't accept being sh!t on from a great hieght as soon as we see the pound signs flashing . The club means alot to me ,more than you would know ,i will not see it ruined by you ,your american idols ,DIC or anyone .Take agood look at yourselves you know who you are.

EXACTLY!

I for one couldn't give a flying f*ck if we stayed at Anfield. I'd prefere that we did. I grew up with that place, so the new staduim will never seem right even if we were to move there tomorrow. There's been so much passion and heartache felt in those stands and in this club, to trade it all for a heartless franchise or business would be to besmirch the ghost of Shanks, Paisley and the 96 and everyone else who has lived and breathed this football club.

unfortunately a move is necessary to generate income to make the club move forward. It is a shame we cannot expand the current stadium but times are changing. And not many people like change.

We can expand the stadium, but it was considered unfeasable to expand it to more than 55,000. That was however when the cost of a new stadium was estimated at something under £200million. With the huge cost increases since then maybe its time we had another look at the feasability of expansion?

RE: expansion.

The Main Stand has a line of houses behind it on Lothair Road.

The Anfield Road obviously has Anfield Road behind it which has a number of buildings on it

The Kemlyn Stand has houses and a car park behind it.

I presume each stand would be rebuilt in phases. One knocked down while the other three are open.

All these things would have to be taken into account:

1- Are the buildings behind these stands empty?

2- How much would it cost to remove Anfield Road?

3- How much revenue would the club lose in each season where one of these stands is demolished?

If the collective cost of all this was lower than the cost of building a new stadium, then this is the plan that should have been approved.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:00 am

The Manhattan Project wrote:
s@int wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Really this is not about winning the title or finishing 4th even , it's not about a nice new stadium ,or if the 2 yanks have x amount of dollars and the arabs have y amount . IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CLUB you clueless glory hunting prats. Yer see when it comes down to it ,this is what being a supporter is all about . you support the club and everything it stands for . It's history it's tradition ,the kit colour the badge ,the smell the atmosphere. Get it . If all you want is titles and leagues and £30 million pound players and you want it now .Well go and get them ,cos there are other clubs that have them whilst we don't .
I think i'll stick around for a bit with the people i know want the best for my club and not just another shiny new stadium . I'll stay here with the people who won't accept being sh!t on from a great hieght as soon as we see the pound signs flashing . The club means alot to me ,more than you would know ,i will not see it ruined by you ,your american idols ,DIC or anyone .Take agood look at yourselves you know who you are.

EXACTLY!

I for one couldn't give a flying f*ck if we stayed at Anfield. I'd prefere that we did. I grew up with that place, so the new staduim will never seem right even if we were to move there tomorrow. There's been so much passion and heartache felt in those stands and in this club, to trade it all for a heartless franchise or business would be to besmirch the ghost of Shanks, Paisley and the 96 and everyone else who has lived and breathed this football club.

unfortunately a move is necessary to generate income to make the club move forward. It is a shame we cannot expand the current stadium but times are changing. And not many people like change.

We can expand the stadium, but it was considered unfeasable to expand it to more than 55,000. That was however when the cost of a new stadium was estimated at something under £200million. With the huge cost increases since then maybe its time we had another look at the feasability of expansion?

RE: expansion.

The Main Stand has a line of houses behind it on Lothair Road.

The Anfield Road obviously has Anfield Road behind it which has a number of buildings on it

The Kemlyn Stand has houses and a car park behind it.

I presume each stand would be rebuilt in phases. One knocked down while the other three are open.

All these things would have to be taken into account:

1- Are the buildings behind these stands empty?

2- How much would it cost to remove Anfield Road?

3- How much revenue would the club lose in each season where one of these stands is demolished?

If the collective cost of all this was lower than the cost of building a new stadium, then this is the plan that should have been approved.

Thats what I thought was the stumbling block, you also have the people who would be unwilling to move, which is perfectly understandable. Shame.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:07 am

The Manhattan Project wrote:
s@int wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Really this is not about winning the title or finishing 4th even , it's not about a nice new stadium ,or if the 2 yanks have x amount of dollars and the arabs have y amount . IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CLUB you clueless glory hunting prats. Yer see when it comes down to it ,this is what being a supporter is all about . you support the club and everything it stands for . It's history it's tradition ,the kit colour the badge ,the smell the atmosphere. Get it . If all you want is titles and leagues and £30 million pound players and you want it now .Well go and get them ,cos there are other clubs that have them whilst we don't .
I think i'll stick around for a bit with the people i know want the best for my club and not just another shiny new stadium . I'll stay here with the people who won't accept being sh!t on from a great hieght as soon as we see the pound signs flashing . The club means alot to me ,more than you would know ,i will not see it ruined by you ,your american idols ,DIC or anyone .Take agood look at yourselves you know who you are.

EXACTLY!

I for one couldn't give a flying f*ck if we stayed at Anfield. I'd prefere that we did. I grew up with that place, so the new staduim will never seem right even if we were to move there tomorrow. There's been so much passion and heartache felt in those stands and in this club, to trade it all for a heartless franchise or business would be to besmirch the ghost of Shanks, Paisley and the 96 and everyone else who has lived and breathed this football club.

unfortunately a move is necessary to generate income to make the club move forward. It is a shame we cannot expand the current stadium but times are changing. And not many people like change.

We can expand the stadium, but it was considered unfeasable to expand it to more than 55,000. That was however when the cost of a new stadium was estimated at something under £200million. With the huge cost increases since then maybe its time we had another look at the feasability of expansion?

RE: expansion.

The Main Stand has a line of houses behind it on Lothair Road.

The Anfield Road obviously has Anfield Road behind it which has a number of buildings on it

The Kemlyn Stand has houses and a car park behind it.

I presume each stand would be rebuilt in phases. One knocked down while the other three are open.

All these things would have to be taken into account:

1- Are the buildings behind these stands empty?

2- How much would it cost to remove Anfield Road?

3- How much revenue would the club lose in each season where one of these stands is demolished?

If the collective cost of all this was lower than the cost of building a new stadium, then this is the plan that should have been approved.

It was held universally by all within Anfield that the current crowd capacity had to be increased. The optimum capacity figure arrived at for whatever reasons - and do not rule out here politically correct parity with the proposed King's Dock stadium capacity - was 55,000, an increase of some 10,000 on the current Anfield capacity.

Next the financial consideration. The new stadium - 55,000 expandable to 60,000 - is expected to cost around 60-70 million pounds. The expansion of the existing ground to around 54,600 was assessed at 50-55 million. This latter cost includes demolition, resident compensation and lost revenue from reduced attendances/disruption of around 15-20 million pounds. Thus for around 10-15 million pounds additional real cost - given that one or other of the options HAD to be selected - the LFC board was being tempted with the enticing prospect of a pristine and symmetrical new stadium compared with a makeshift expansion of the existing ground.

Second, in order to accommodate the additional requisite 10,000 seats and meet the current construction legislation criteria, the architectural/ engineering design solution meant the rebuilding of both the main stand and a single tier Anfield Road stand with the closure of Anfield Road. By all accounts the initial cursory drawings perusal quickly revealed even to the most ardent pro-stay lobby within the Board a revamped Anfield that looked both unsightly and unbefitting of our legendary home.

In Rick Parry's words, the expansion design proposals simply 'did not look right' and every board member was disappointed with the results, having expected beforehand to have been confronted by something altogether more attractive, special and fitting.

Forinstance, it appears the new Anfield Road stand would actually have had to have been larger than the Kop. This, alone, if not exactly as unpalatable to pro-stayers as a ground move did present them with a not insignificant problem of principle, especially in view of future generations attempting to grasp what the Kop was all about.

It seems that these were the overriding criteria which virtually dictated to those present that the only viable solution was a move

COST OF NEW STADIUM WAS £60-70MILLION AT THE TIME.
COST OF EXPANDING WAS £50-55 MILLION AT THE TIME

new stadium costs have risen enormously, would the cost of expansion have risen by the same amount?

LINK TO FULL ARTICLE

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:18 am

Even now with clueless owners, the kop is the focal point of LFC, just as it always has been, surely thats a positive ?

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:31 am

Kharhaz wrote:Even now with clueless owners, the kop is the focal point of LFC, just as it always has been, surely thats a positive ?

It would be IF the new stadium ever gets built. Off the figures I have seen (and I have no idea if they are right or not) the new stadium would still be much too expensive to be built, without a huge increase in commercial revenue and season tickets.

Maybe we can sell the name of the ground etc but I still think its highly unlikely to be built under the present owners.

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