Liverpool FC Forum

by **Red Red Tom** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:35 am

The Manhattan Project wrote:
Are they really hideous ignorant statements? I for one don't want Hicks in particular here. If Rafa is sacked for NON FOOTBALL REASONS then LFC doesn't mean anything anymore - that's not what we are, or what we are about. Remember FC United?

Who would support 'Anfield FC'?

I love Rafa, In Rafa we Trust etc, but that's not what this is about. It's the principle of EVERYTHING that LFC means to me. Everton really will be 'the People's Club' then.

I don't love Rafa. I respect that he's a good manager, but I love Liverpool Football Club. If Rafa isn't the man to deliver what is required, then he'll have to go. Thus far I tend to agree with Hicks and Gillett. He's bought players and needs to deliver the goods now. On Wednesday, we could very well be knocked out of the Champions League. If he had a problem with transfers, then it should have been addressed quietly and privately. This public stuff I don't like. As for Hicks and Gillett, as long as they can 1) provide the needed funds for players 2) keep the club financially healthy and 3) build the new stadium responsibly, then they are fine with me.

First of all Manhatten, I don't post a lot - but I read the site everyday, and you are definitely my favourite poster, you make me laugh, but even so your posts are always pogient (spelling?) and I respect your views very much.

On to your post; they are all valid points, and I agree that if he's not the man to deliver what's required he'll have to go; but it's my view that he is. He is delivering the goods, we're unbeaten in the leage, and we've had our bad patch (the defeats came in Europe). It's for that reason we may be knocked out on Wednesday. Thing is, even if we are, I don't think it's time for him to go. Anyway, I think we will win on Wednesday anyway, but we'll see.

I'd rather it was kept private too - because then I wouldn't be sat up two thirty on a monday morning sh1tting myself over this; but at the same time, Rafa is keeping the fans informed.

Your stuff on Hicks and Gillett is fine except there should be a 4th point added - they must look after the club on the pitch as well as financially, sacking Rafa would be totally irrisponsible and totally detremental to the club's ambitions (in my view).

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:37 am

s@int wrote:
1) provide the needed funds for players 2) keep the club financially healthy and 3) build the new stadium responsibly, then they are fine with me.

1/ Obviously they can't/won't provide the needed funds (surely the manager is the best judge of whether players are needed or not?)

2/Taking out a loan of £500million to be set against the club is hardly a sign of financial health

3/ The cost of the stadium has gone through the roof and yet we have still had nothing but delays and setbacks.

1. they proved more than enough funds in the summer transfer window

2. normal business practice for wealthy people, why spend your own money when its getting a greater rate of interest than the charge for borrowing the money,

3. Again normal, look at wembley stadium, the fact is they have designed a nice stadium and have the premission to build it, it will be built

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:37 am

1/ Obviously they can't/won't provide the needed funds (surely the manager is the best judge of whether players are needed or not?)

2/Taking out a loan of £500million to be set against the club is hardly a sign of financial health

3/ The cost of the stadium has gone through the roof and yet we have still had nothing but delays and setbacks.

That's why I said "as long as they can"....do the following.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:38 am

s@int wrote:3/ The cost of the stadium has gone through the roof and yet we have still had nothing but delays and setbacks.

Is that the fault of Gillett and Hicks or Liverpool council?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:42 am

peewee wrote:
s@int wrote:
1) provide the needed funds for players 2) keep the club financially healthy and 3) build the new stadium responsibly, then they are fine with me.

1/ Obviously they can't/won't provide the needed funds (surely the manager is the best judge of whether players are needed or not?)

2/Taking out a loan of £500million to be set against the club is hardly a sign of financial health

3/ The cost of the stadium has gone through the roof and yet we have still had nothing but delays and setbacks.

1. they proved more than enough funds in the summer transfer window

2. normal business practice for wealthy people, why spend your own money when its getting a greater rate of interest than the charge for borrowing the money,

3. Again normal, look at wembley stadium, the fact is they have designed a nice stadium and have the premission to build it, it will be built

1/Obviously not in the managers view or he wouldn't be asking for more.

2/ Going back on your word to not put the debt against the club is not "normal business practice"

3/ The shambolic Wembley fiasco was a disgrace and thats what you are using as a comparison?

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:48 am

I'm disgusted. If what was said in Saint's post with Guillem Balague is true in the slightest, then Rafa must feel that to be a right slap in the face from two two-faced c*nts that claim to know what's right for our club by being our owners, even though they haven't a clue about the game.

So Rafa wants to get things done and moving forward by sealing a contract for a world class player, plus doing a world class deal that would see us profit 20 million and sign players for no fee? No harm, but even that insults me as a supporter of this club. G&H haven't a fu*cking clue. They're a cash cow and nothing more than that as yet. Rafa is practically deified and is now a legend in Liverpool lore and is held dear to the people who follow this club for what he's done for it. They need to get that through their thick skulls before they act and do something daft. Whatever happened to "whatever Rafa needs" and "we back Rafa" (or is raw-fa?)? Pretentious c*nts! They sack Rafa and there'll be a uproar or maybe even a riot. And if there isn't one there bloody well should be. I can see them not sticking their hands in their pockets for what Rafa needs, so I'll say he'll walk. He won't even give them a chance to fire him.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:52 am

Who has said he will be sacked? Gillett? Hicks? Parry? or the press? Just wondering like.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:54 am

Kharhaz wrote:Who has said he will be sacked? Gillett? Hicks? Parry? or the press? Just wondering like.

Apparently one of them (G&H). It's all very hush hush cloak and dagger sh*t at the moment, so who knows.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:57 am

Kharhaz wrote:Who has said he will be sacked? Gillett? Hicks? Parry? or the press? Just wondering like.

Who has said he won't be sacked Gillett? Hicks? Parry? or the press? Just wondering like.

Surely after all the rumours flying about they should have said something in support of the manager, rather than just stirring the pot with a non statement.

by **Effes** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:16 am

Obviously the tieing up the Mascherano deal and sorting other targets
is not a big an issue for the Yanks as it is for Rafa.

I think the Yanks are more worried about finances at the moment.

But, it does seem rediculous that Rafa may get sacked - what's he done wrong?

OK, he was petulant in that press conference - but does this club deserve to lose
him just for that?

Nothing will happen til Dec 16th inmy eyes - but by then I dont think the Yanks
will have the bottle to sack Rafa.
Yea, I know they are tough businessmen, but I think they know he's an asset
to the club and sacking him would more than likely make things worse.

Just my take.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:46 am

I'm not crazy about the way the whole thing is being handled, but I'm not overly surprised either. Given the fact the Americans know little about football, and given that the bloke who managed the team who won the Premiership twice in the last three seasons in currently out of a job, you can hardly be surprised that they are getting a bit twitchy with the old trigger finger. Add in Rafa's little outbursts, wich they probably consider very impudent given they are paying him millions of pounds a year (I'm talking their thinking here not my own) and you have a recipe for change.

I'm not anti-Rafa by any means but I think winning the Prem with his rotation policy is an impossibility, so goodness only knows what their experts are telling them.

I was thinking this morning, when we drew at pompey and completely lost our way for a month or so, what was the team? No Torres, No Babel, No Lucas. So the Americans could be possibly thinking, "that's forty million quids worth of talent which WE bought in the Summer, because he told us he desperately needed them and he doesn't play any of them!". I've said for a while that if the couple of advisors they turn to for guidance don't buy into rotation "Rafa-style" then he was always going to be on a sticky wicket.

by **skatesy** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:38 am

Red Red Tom wrote:
The Manhattan Project wrote:
Are they really hideous ignorant statements? I for one don't want Hicks in particular here. If Rafa is sacked for NON FOOTBALL REASONS then LFC doesn't mean anything anymore - that's not what we are, or what we are about. Remember FC United?

Who would support 'Anfield FC'?

I love Rafa, In Rafa we Trust etc, but that's not what this is about. It's the principle of EVERYTHING that LFC means to me. Everton really will be 'the People's Club' then.

I don't love Rafa. I respect that he's a good manager, but I love Liverpool Football Club. If Rafa isn't the man to deliver what is required, then he'll have to go. Thus far I tend to agree with Hicks and Gillett. He's bought players and needs to deliver the goods now. On Wednesday, we could very well be knocked out of the Champions League. If he had a problem with transfers, then it should have been addressed quietly and privately. This public stuff I don't like. As for Hicks and Gillett, as long as they can 1) provide the needed funds for players 2) keep the club financially healthy and 3) build the new stadium responsibly, then they are fine with me.

First of all Manhatten, I don't post a lot - but I read the site everyday, and you are definitely my favourite poster, you make me laugh, but even so your posts are always pogient (spelling?) and I respect your views very much.

On to your post; they are all valid points, and I agree that if he's not the man to deliver what's required he'll have to go; but it's my view that he is. He is delivering the goods, we're unbeaten in the leage, and we've had our bad patch (the defeats came in Europe). It's for that reason we may be knocked out on Wednesday. Thing is, even if we are, I don't think it's time for him to go. Anyway, I think we will win on Wednesday anyway, but we'll see.

I'd rather it was kept private too - because then I wouldn't be sat up two thirty on a monday morning sh1tting myself over this; but at the same time, Rafa is keeping the fans informed.

Your stuff on Hicks and Gillett is fine except there should be a 4th point added - they must look after the club on the pitch as well as financially, sacking Rafa would be totally irrisponsible and totally detremental to the club's ambitions (in my view).

The notion is being presented that "If Rafa isn't the man to deliver what is required, then he'll have to go. Thus far I tend to agree with Hicks and Gillett"

These are two very different ideas. First off - sure, if Rafa is not doing the job over a consistent period of time then he has to go. However, during his tenure at the club he has done a fine job. You cannot connect his fine job with the club with how Hicks and Gillett have been. I get the impression that this issue is a bit deeper than just the fact that Hicks and Gillett will not support Rafa in how he wants to tie up some contracts now as opposed to waiting until later, risking losing them. And it seems that the contact/discussions between Rafa and the owners have been scarce which is a problem. Not only does this create problems because there is not much understanding of the three, but it also creates problems because ideas can become construed because of the lack of communication. I get the impression that there is a significant lack of communication which IN ANY RELATIONSHIP IS BAD. And I think this is the problem; it is a problem of poor communication between the manager and upper management and this needs to be solved.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:47 am

So its like this from what I am understanding.

We beat Porto and Marseille and qualify if we dont Rafa's out.

Or with them being new owners they want to bring their own man in into a job they havent got a fuckin clue about.

6 games they have been to and two of them where finals CL and FA Cup.

Why arnt they coming over for the Porto game? Isnt that big enough?

And who are they coming to watch on december the 16th us or the mancs?

Fuckin snides that includes you Parry.

Those who want Rafa out be careful what you wish for my guess is a YES man will be brought in and not some world class manager.

If they want to gain a bit of respect back they MUST get on a flight and get over here and sort this mess out with Rafa and get the players signed that he wants and stop fannying around if they want this club to move forward.

Open your dirty big fat cheque books sign Masherano and a defender before its to late.

by **skatesy** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:01 am

Ciggy wrote:So its like this from what I am understanding.

We beat Porto and Marseille and qualify if we dont Rafa's out.

Or with them being new owners they want to bring their own man in into a job they havent got a fuckin clue about.

6 games they have been to and two of them where finals CL and FA Cup.

Why arnt they coming over for the Porto game? Isnt that big enough?

And who are they coming to watch on december the 16th us or the mancs?

Fuckin snides that includes you Parry.

Those who want Rafa out be careful what you wish for my guess is a YES man will be brought in and not some world class manager.

If they want to gain a bit of respect back they MUST get on a flight and get over here and sort this mess out with Rafa and get the players signed that he wants and stop fannying around if they want this club to move forward.

Open your dirty big fat cheque books sign Masherano and a defender before its to late.

I vote this as the conclusion.

Right on! :buttrock

by **maguskwt** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:23 am

there's only one solution... why don't we fans pool some money and buy our club back from the yanks?

if we can gather a milion fans, it's only about 500 per fan...

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