Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:53 am

Yankee17 wrote:IMHO, One of Rafa's jobs is to target players he thinks would improve the team. Apparently he has done just that. HE WANTS TO IMPROVE THE TEAM. ISN'T THAT WHAT WE WANT?!?!? What I find disconcerting is the fact that they tell him to wait...'We have backed him this far, let him show us what he can do."

If last year, when they where spewing their propoganda, they would have said, "We Will back the manager for a net outlay of 25 million pounds, and then we will have to think about the rest" then most of us would have shouted in anger and disappointment. He has hardly spent anything NET compared to the other big clubs.

Many of you are slagging RAFA off by saying "Look how much he has spent and nothing to show for it." What the heck?!!?
6 points off the league. No losses in the league. I will admit a somewhat patchy Euro campaign, but our squad is miles stronger than 04,05,06. Rafa is IMHO doing a great job rebuilding a club that was once great into a giant once again.

If this is all it takes for G & H to stutter in their financial backing then they should not have purchased a club our size.

This is ridiculous, and the more i think about it the more angry I get. I am a Yank, but I completely support Rafael Benitez.

But he made the squad stronger, he has improved the team but so far he has had players injured and rotated. Im also fully supportive of rafa but im also behind the idea that you cannot throw money at every problem that arises. We need, in my opinion, another quality center half. Aside from that we have the squad, im hoping rafa doesnt go from the path that has got him success so far at liverpool and go on the path that maureen took, whinging about lack of money.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:08 am

Rafa was a knob head for throwing his rattle out the pram in the press conference.

Hicks and Gilett have A LOT to learn about handling a manager.

Parry wants shooting for not telling them both what idiots they where acting.

HOWEVER

Rafa is right to want to tie Mascherano up soon as possible.

The Owners are right to want to discuss transfer money ONLY when the Champions League knock out round money is in the bag.

This will blow over hopefully after a couple of wins.

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:13 am

Rafa we love you an all that but we dont wash our laundry in public and make a laughing stock of the club at the same time, if you have a problem with the owners then sort in out in private, also if you/the team hadnt fooked up the champions league campaign you wouldnt have this problem, concentrate on getting us out of this mess, qualify and get the rewards which is probably around 10 million, can you blame them for waiting to see if we qualify first before letting him know whats in the kitty.

dont worry you`ll all soon be back to talking about rotation again.

by **Yankee17** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:14 am

For those of you who want to have a slag at Rafa, answer this a couple of questions.

Have G & H backed him sufficiently in the transfer market that if they would not spend another pound all year you would be happy thinking they were justified?

Is one third (barely) of a season enough time to judge the effectiveness of Rafa's purchases from the past transfer window?

Do you think it wise that a club would make the manager wait for a certain date (2 weeks prior to a transfer window) to know if he has the owners approval to buy/sell players?

If they cannot spring for another 20 or 30 million they should not be here. If they cannot afford it, they should not be here. If they (or any of you) think that Rafa is throwing money at a problem as the only way of solving it then they(or any of you) have not been paying one bit of attention over the last three years. When has he ever thrown money at a problem, simply hoping to solve it?!?!?

Many of you complained over and over and over....Rafa over analyzed, Rafa over thinks our opponents, He outsmarts himself, He should just play the best eleven, and blah blah blah. The one man the fans accuse of over thinking, and the owners tell him to focus on the team and concentrate on winning the next game. HA!!!! Laughable. That is all he ever does and says. ONE GAME AT A TIME. That is is mantra, his code. And they have the balls to tell him, Don't come to us with talk of transfers, focus on the next game.

Oh the irony.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:25 am

Yankee17 wrote:For those of you who want to have a slag at Rafa, answer this a couple of questions.

Have G & H backed him sufficiently in the transfer market that if they would not spend another pound all year you would be happy thinking they were justified?

Is one third (barely) of a season enough time to judge the effectiveness of Rafa's purchases from the past transfer window?

Do you think it wise that a club would make the manager wait for a certain date (2 weeks prior to a transfer window) to know if he has the owners approval to buy/sell players?

If they cannot spring for another 20 or 30 million they should not be here. If they cannot afford it, they should not be here. If they (or any of you) think that Rafa is throwing money at a problem as the only way of solving it then they(or any of you) have not been paying one bit of attention over the last three years. When has he ever thrown money at a problem, simply hoping to solve it?!?!?

Many of you complained over and over and over....Rafa over analyzed, Rafa over thinks our opponents, He outsmarts himself, He should just play the best eleven, and blah blah blah. The one man the fans accuse of over thinking, and the owners tell him to focus on the team and concentrate on winning the next game. HA!!!! Laughable. That is all he ever does and says. ONE GAME AT A TIME. That is is mantra, his code. And they have the balls to tell him, Don't come to us with talk of transfers, focus on the next game.

Oh the irony.

Good thoughtful; post.

Stick around.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:35 am

Have G & H backed him sufficiently in the transfer market that if they would not spend another pound all year you would be happy thinking they were justified?

I think so, who would have thought someone like Torres would be here. We are not just talking about the sum paid for the player to the club, we are also talking wages and bonuses.

Is one third (barely) of a season enough time to judge the effectiveness of Rafa's purchases from the past transfer window?

This would be my point in my reply to you. He has made signings already and they need time, I cant see how signing more players would solve this problem.

Do you think it wise that a club would make the manager wait for a certain date (2 weeks prior to a transfer window) to know if he has the owners approval to buy/sell players?

Yes, he has spent money and bought players already and the transfer window is over a month away. If he cannot use the players he already has then the problem is deeper than we thought. As you said yourself we are still unbeaten despite injuries.

If they cannot spring for another 20 or 30 million they should not be here. If they cannot afford it, they should not be here. If they (or any of you) think that Rafa is throwing money at a problem as the only way of solving it then they(or any of you) have not been paying one bit of attention over the last three years. When has he ever thrown money at a problem, simply hoping to solve it?!?!?

He has made the most of what he had. And that is what has earned our respect. If he needs another 20 or 30 million then the club will be looking for another manager if he doesnt win the league this year. They are businessmen and look to make money not lose it.

I dont knock rafa. Like ive said before never would I have imagined that I would see us win the european cup in my lifetime and grateful that we have. On this subject though, I think he should have spoken privately rather than publicly.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:44 am

The transfer in dispute, and the one that has caused the rift is Mascherano (thats from the horses mouth by the way) a player EVERYONE on here is saying we cant let go.

People need to bare this in mind when talking about Rafa demanding new players.

He is not asking them to sign a player now outside the transfer window as its IMPOSSIBLE. He wants MAscherano tied up early.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:48 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:Rafa was a knob head for throwing his rattle out the pram in the press conference.

Hicks and Gilett have A LOT to learn about handling a manager.

Parry wants shooting for not telling them both what idiots they where acting.

HOWEVER

Rafa is right to want to tie Mascherano up soon as possible.

I agree with you on all of this mate.

The Owners are right to want to discuss transfer money ONLY when the Champions League knock out round money is in the bag.

I am not so sure about this tho', I think that while the CL money will obviously have some bearing on just how much money will/should be available, the huge risk of losing a key target should be taken into account and contingency plans should already be drawn up.

I may be wrong but I believe Rafa is quite willing to sell players (Crouch, Sissoko,Carson)in order to buy. Its more a question of financing the purchases until Rafa can sell the players rather than finding new money.ie Carson may only get sold in the summer,but Rafa wants to spend that money NOW rather than wait and perhaps lose key targets that he feels are essential to our progress.

This will blow over hopefully after a couple of wins.

I totally disagree with this Leon. I think the relationship between them was already damaged and I fear after this latest spat, its now a case of when the break occurs rather than if. I am pretty sure that if Rafa didn't have a £6million clause in his contract he would already have been sacked or walked.

G&H don't want to pay £6million to sack him, and Rafa doesn't want to resign and lose the £6million, but I fear his position is becoming untenable and the final straw may come sooner rather than later. (I hope I am wrong)

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:50 am

I like Mascherano a lot but I dont think there needs to be a rush to sign him, he wants to be here and rafa wants him here and the next game he plays will be in a red shirt and will be come the end of the season. That is when we should snap him up for good.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:56 am

s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:This will blow over hopefully after a couple of wins.

I totally disagree with this Leon. I think the relationship between them was already damaged and I fear after this latest spat, its now a case of when the break occurs rather than if. I am pretty sure that if Rafa didn't have a £6million clause in his contract he would already have been sacked or walked.

G&H don't want to pay £6million to sack him, and Rafa doesn't want to resign and lose the £6million, but I fear his position is becoming untenable and the final straw may come sooner rather than later. (I hope I am wrong)

I was initially very worried, see my post on page one, seriously devestated, but I think it will all blow over.

MY old man sat me down and calmed me down (seriously) and told me about a certain man from Glenbuck who had experienced the same friction with the board members at the clubs. Me Dad said he offered his resignation a few times (so legend has it) before winning his first trophy after 5 barren years.

I think that its just a case of the owners needing to get to know Rarfours way of thinking, and then biting the bullet and letting him run the show.

After such large investment, and in the face of a lot of personal "debt" in the financing of the deal, its understandable that the trust element will need to be built up between Tom George and Rar-four. They will eventually learn to leave him in charge of ALL team matters in relation to signing players.

We hope. :Oo:

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:03 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:This will blow over hopefully after a couple of wins.

I totally disagree with this Leon. I think the relationship between them was already damaged and I fear after this latest spat, its now a case of when the break occurs rather than if. I am pretty sure that if Rafa didn't have a £6million clause in his contract he would already have been sacked or walked.

G&H don't want to pay £6million to sack him, and Rafa doesn't want to resign and lose the £6million, but I fear his position is becoming untenable and the final straw may come sooner rather than later. (I hope I am wrong)

I was initially very worried, see my post on page one, seriously devestated, but I think it will all blow over.

MY old man sat me down and calmed me down (seriously) and told me about a certain man from Glenbuck who had experienced the same friction with the board members at the clubs. Me Dad said he offered his resignation a few times (so legend has it) before winning his first trophy after 5 barren years.

I think that its just a case of the owners needing to get to know Rarfours way of thinking, and then biting the bullet and letting him run the show.

After such large investment, and in the face of a lot of personal "debt" in the financing of the deal, its understandable that the trust element will need to be built up between Tom George and Rar-four. They will eventually learn to leave him in charge of ALL team matters in relation to signing players.

We hope.

I hope you are right mate, but my worry is these are businessmen rather than people with a great love of our football club, where as Shankly was faced with a board that were Liverpool fans first and foremost.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:26 am

One more point that I havent seen mentioned is the refinancing of the loan by G&H. After them saying that they would buy the club outright without putting the debt against the club, they are now in the process of so doing. One prerequisite for such a loan would obviously be the stability and reputation of the management team in place even when the loan is placed against fixed assets (the good will aspect) Surely if this dispute escalates it will place Liverpool fc in an invidious position. A new and untested management team would obviously be seen as more of a liability and less as a valued asset.

In other words the whole house of cards could come crashing down. (Hopefully this is an extremly unlikely occurence)

by **maguskwt** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:36 am

like LFC2007 said we dont' know the real reason why rafa is so moody... and you guys are criticizing him out of what you read form the media... it is really pathetic (and I'm still waiting for heimdall to do his unveiling ceremony, 500+ posts must be a record isn't it)

If this is all about mascherano's case rafa is right about going to yanks early ask about money to sign him, or whatever plan he has for the winter whether it's selling and buying to make that deal. After all we often complain about not acting quick enough to seal the deals. And now rafa is being blamed for doing just that. If he was being mislead regarding the transfer money available he has a right to be unhappy about. Yes we brought torres in the summer and spent alot of money to buy players. But we also sold alot of players... so our NET spending is not far from what we've spent in previous seasons... Hicks should be aware of this before he said they've given rafa more money than the club has ever spent. It seems to me like the yanks are backing out from their promises...

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:45 am

maguskwt wrote:like LFC2007 said we dont' know the real reason why rafa is so moody... and you guys are criticizing him out of what you read form the media... it is really pathetic

It seems to me like the yanks are backing out from their promises...

so lets just look at these two parts of your post. on one point you say its pathetic for people to believe the press, and then in the second point you are believing the press.

again i will state that i have not seen the americans backing out of anything, they have said they will discuss it in the middle of december, what is so hard for people to understand about this. if they dont discuss it in the middle of december then start to worry. dont worry now, they have not said there is no money, they have simply said they will discuss it in december when they are here. if rafa is throwing his toys out the pram over this then the pathetic statement can be levelled squarely at him, as i said earlier he is not in any position to dictate to the owners after his poor start to this season. the comment that he should focus on the upcoming games and the current squad (built by rafa, and lets not say he had no more money, he did, he was trying to buy hienze and then had no back up, so the money was there) is a fair comment, thats what he should be doing rather than going to war with two succssful businessmen with no real affinity to the club, just a desire to be successful and make a profit.if rafa can not do that then dont expect any sympathy from these guys, also dont expect them to roll over to keep him, he will be out

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:54 am

Cursing the guy, telling him to f'ng this or that, is absolutely ridiculous. It's the Rafa bashers at their opportunistic best, and it's pathetic.

Where are these Rafa bashers then ?

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