Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:51 pm

Effes wrote:
red--sangria wrote:IT'S ONLY OURSELPES TO BLAIM.we sold our team to business people the only interest in making money. H e bought us for not another reason apart from the business. and these people hav'nt got the feelings and the passion for our club and this is what is wrong
We've sold ourselves our historic liverpool to these people who have nothing to do with football. I don't know how all this is hoing to finish, but i'm a very very worried man. Leave benitez to one side. Fingers crossed for our future..

Exactly same post on RAWK at 5.40pm:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum....211#new

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:52 pm

And this b*llocks about "can't keep throwing money at him..." - ONE F*CKING CLOSE SEASON.

That's how long they've held the purse strings, people.

by **Reg** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:56 pm

Effes wrote:
Reg wrote:Check the Dallas papers on the net and search under Tom Hicks. He´s no pussy this lad and if Rafa calls his bluff, Rafa will lose. Thats how people like Hicks have become successful businessmen.

Successful businessman does not = successful footbal chairman

See Ken Bates.

Here's a report on Hicks and his hockey team:

As it turns out, Hicks wasn't any crazier about the Stars' failure to add firepower in the off-season than disgruntled fans, players and media. "Disappointed," is how he put it. When Columbus called asking about Armstrong's availability, the owner discussed the possibilities with his GM. Ultimately, Hicks said, "We decided to go forward."

But Hicks' doubts had been building, and not just about the roster. He wondered if a once-model organization had gone stale. On nearly any question about the Stars, he normally would have consulted Jim Lites. Or talked hockey with Armstrong. But Armstrong sensed some distance from the owner lately. Lites didn't get a call.

"I just wanted a more objective viewpoint," Hicks said.

So he went outside the organization, to a couple of friends in the NHL. And he talked to Mike Modano.

The preseason confab between Hicks and his star player couldn't have helped Armstrong's cause. Hicks wouldn't reveal what was discussed, but you don't have to channel Don Cherry to imagine where Modano stood. Armstrong was behind the decision to rip the "C" from Modano's sweater. He traded Joe Nieuwendyk and Jamie Langenbrunner and dumped Darryl Sydor, all vital parts in the franchise's success, all friends of Modano's.

Armstrong also represented a system that had always asked Modano to sacrifice and never played to his strengths. And when Modano desperately needed help to carry some of the scoring load, Armstrong in effect told him he'd done all he could. The former captain would have to shoulder the burden on his own.

Very interesting stuff:

My point was that years ago Moores didnt fire Souness, Evans nor Houllier soon enough and their bitching spoilt the team spirit and :censored:

off the supporters. Hicks meanwhile doesnt even speak to his board, when he´s heard enough he just presses the ejector button and said PITA is longer sitting in front of him. Rafa shouldnt think that whining at Hicks like he did with Moores will produce the desired result. Hicks expects to see results.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:57 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:And this b*llocks about "can't keep throwing money at him..." - ONE F*CKING CLOSE SEASON.

That's how long they've held the purse strings, people.

They only spent 20 million the way they are going on you would think they had just spent 200 million on the team.

We need another defender because if Carra and Agger got injured we are basicly fucked with a capital F.
Dont they realise that?

by **Igor Zidane** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:59 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Effes wrote:
red--sangria wrote:IT'S ONLY OURSELPES TO BLAIM.we sold our team to business people the only interest in making money. H e bought us for not another reason apart from the business. and these people hav'nt got the feelings and the passion for our club and this is what is wrong
We've sold ourselves our historic liverpool to these people who have nothing to do with football. I don't know how all this is hoing to finish, but i'm a very very worried man. Leave benitez to one side. Fingers crossed for our future..

Exactly same post on RAWK at 5.40pm:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum....211#new

This is getting fecking stupid now

by **LFC2007** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:01 pm

Reg wrote:My point was that years ago Moores didnt fire Souness, Evans nor Houllier soon enough and their bitching spoilt the team spirit and off the supporters. Hicks meanwhile doesnt even speak to his board, when he´s heard enough he just presses the ejector button and said PITA is longer sitting in front of him. Rafa shouldnt think that whining at Hicks like he did with Moores will produce the desired result. Hicks expects to see results.

I don't know where you get your information from mate, but I don't think Rafa is "whining" and I certainly don't think Hicks opts out of speaking to the board.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:03 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Effes wrote:
red--sangria wrote:IT'S ONLY OURSELPES TO BLAIM.we sold our team to business people the only interest in making money. H e bought us for not another reason apart from the business. and these people hav'nt got the feelings and the passion for our club and this is what is wrong
We've sold ourselves our historic liverpool to these people who have nothing to do with football. I don't know how all this is hoing to finish, but i'm a very very worried man. Leave benitez to one side. Fingers crossed for our future..

Exactly same post on RAWK at 5.40pm:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum....211#new

This is getting fecking stupid now

©

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:07 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Effes wrote:
red--sangria wrote:IT'S ONLY OURSELPES TO BLAIM.we sold our team to business people the only interest in making money. H e bought us for not another reason apart from the business. and these people hav'nt got the feelings and the passion for our club and this is what is wrong
We've sold ourselves our historic liverpool to these people who have nothing to do with football. I don't know how all this is hoing to finish, but i'm a very very worried man. Leave benitez to one side. Fingers crossed for our future..

Exactly same post on RAWK at 5.40pm:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum....211#new

This is getting fecking stupid now

©

pmsl

by **zarababe** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:44 pm

I'm really worried bout this development - Benitez is the best thing to have happend to this club snce dalglish (management -wise) this is serious -

From the BBC

"Rafael Benitez's relationship with Liverpool owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks has been strained before - now it is close to breaking point.

Benitez delivered an extraordinary, exasperated performance at his media briefing before Liverpool's visit to Newcastle on Saturday.

He responded to questioning on a variety of topics by repeating that he was "focused on training and coaching my team" no fewer than 25 times.

Benitez was so agitated that he was even happy to link himself with the newly-vacated England job - a sure sign of any man's discontent.

So what is the truth behind the apparent breakdown in relations between Benitez and Anfield's American owners?

My understanding is that Hicks and Gillett were furious with Benitez's outburst, which they regard as unwarranted and undeserved.

And, contrary to reports, his incendiary reaction was not a response to a telephone call with the Americans shortly before the press conference.

Benitez has been told within the last three weeks that no transfer business - in or out - or any potential funding, will be discussed until Hicks and Gillett return to Merseyside from America in mid-December.

He has clearly stewed on this information and the lid came off at Liverpool's Melwood training headquarters in almost surreal circumstances.

Hicks and Gillett were similarly infuriated and mystified when Benitez, in an apparent fit of pique, launched an attack on them in the wake of the Champions League final defeat against AC Milan in Athens in May.

I believe that was forgiven, if not exactly forgotten, and even Thursday's outburst has not put his job in immediate jeopardy.

But if it was designed to shake the Americans off course from their original strategy of formulating all their transfer plans in December, it has backfired.

Benitez's very public show of petulance will not persuade Hicks or Gillett to shift their stance one inch.

There will be no discussions until mid-December whether Benitez likes it or not.

If that has made him question his position, so be it.

The ball is now firmly back in his court, but he can be in no doubt that he has not pleased his employers and they are sure to take a dim view if he delivers any more public criticism.

Hicks and Gillett believe they gave Benitez everything he wanted in the transfer market in the summer, even though it was a stretch on their planned transfer budget.

They feel the arrival of Fernando Torres, Yossi Benayoun and Ryan Babel demonstrated their commitment.

This is a point for debate among Liverpool supporters, with some suggesting he recouped plenty back from sales, but this is the view across the Atlantic.

Benitez has since come up with a number of transfer targets that he wishes to pursue and has expressed fears to the Anfield hierarchy that he could miss out.

Hicks and Gillett want to sit down in December and formulate a clear plan. There will be no scatter-gun spending.

Rather than back down in the face of increasing and regular pressure from Benitez, I am told his latest broadside left the American pair almost having to be scraped off the ceiling in rage.

Their message to Benitez was to stay silent and get on with the business of coaching and winning games between now and December - then they will talk business.

They feel their request that Benitez waits until December to discuss matters further is perfectly reasonable - a view clearly not shared by their manager.

Benitez is no stranger to the politicking of football. He had similar problems at Valencia over transfer targets.

But I understand the Americans will not be budged, leaving Benitez to either bite his tongue and wait or continue to publicly berate the club's owners.

If he fails to take the hint, it may well be that Benitez might pursue his ambitions elsewhere.

Benitez, despite his benign public image, is a ruthless, single-minded, sore loser - no problem with that.

He also remains a highly-popular figure with Liverpool fans, although that might alter if they fail to reach the Champions League knockout phase.

But Hicks and Gillett feel they have played fair with Benitez, a feeling not reciprocated by the Spanish manager.

Benitez may have the last word, but a major diplomatic incident has been sparked by his criticism and he needs results more than ever as Liverpool enter a crucial phase of their campaign."

.. and

"Benitez warned to 'quit talking'

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez has been told by club co-owner Tom Hicks to "quit talking about new players" and to win games with those he already has.
On Thursday Benitez hinted Hicks and co-owner George Gillett were holding up his transfer plans and even suggested he could be England's next coach.

"We told him to concentrate on the games coming up. I guess he didn't like it," Hicks told the Liverpool Echo.

"We will come over in December. That is the time to talk about other issues."

Benitez arrived late for Thursday's news conference, seemingly in a state of distress, and used the answer "I am focused on training and coaching my team" a number of times in response to a series of questions on various issues.

He also hinted his future could lie away from Anfield.

"Maybe I could be Steve McClaren's replacement if I improve my English," said the 47-year-old Spaniard.

606: DEBATE
A major diplomatic incident has been sparked by Benitez's criticism

BBC Sport's Phil McNulty

"I was being serious. You never know what can happen in the future."

Despite a huge transfer outlay in the summer on players like Fernando Torres and Ryan Babel, Liverpool are fifth in the Premier League and in danger of failing to get beyond the group stage of the Champions League.

Benitez is thought to have already started making plans for the January transfer window, but the club's American owners do not seem to be thinking that far ahead at the moment.

"After the Champions League final in Athens, Rafa made certain demands of us and we responded to those demands in the summer," said Hicks.

"We brought in some good players and spent more money than has ever been spent before at this club.

"This was the message we gave to Rafa recently and I think during the international break he must have grown a bit frustrated.

"For the time being we just need to be focused on what happens on the pitch."

This is clearly where his refernce to being "focused" on the match etc comes from - it would be a disaster if we lost him ... couldn't bear it folks! If we don't plan transfer targets now, we'll lose out on key players :down:

by **roberto green** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:49 pm

I am totaly behind Benitez but it seems he always has a tendancy to falll out with his board and this goes back to his Valencia days and at Liverpool everytime he has had words he has ended up getting the backing off his board but he could just push his luck to far one of these days.

by **Pineapple Nutty** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:55 pm

i love bentie (MY HERO)

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:26 pm

I have criticised Rafa at times this reason regarding rotaion or team selection..however you want to put it.
But i seriously am shocked that people think (if what we are hearing about our owners is true) that Rafa is in the wrong.

Firstly lets take the.....he has had money and wasted it camp.

That may be true...it may not...at this stage in the season we are not far off pace in the league and although in a precarious position in the champions league we are still in it after smashing our last opponents 8-0.
People cant say he is just trying to throw money at problems without knowing the facts. He may have just asked how much he will have in January...a perfectly reasonable question.
No matter how much the owners spent pre-season if they have done any business research into top level football they will know that even the top teams will want to change certain aspects or players. Thats called not standing still and wanting to improve.

What should Rafa do...sit on his erse and say thanks for them players in the summer i know we still need players but you have spent enough ??
If anyone can give me any other reason how making him wait until after the champions league group and the major league game against united is good for us or the club then do tell.

It is showing that they dont have faith in the manager..the same man they backed wholeheartedly in the summer.
They might as well get rid now, because i cant see him settling for this.
And i dont blame him.

by **crabbers** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:29 pm

Full audio herelink

by **Reg** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:53 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:My point was that years ago Moores didnt fire Souness, Evans nor Houllier soon enough and their bitching spoilt the team spirit and off the supporters. Hicks meanwhile doesnt even speak to his board, when he´s heard enough he just presses the ejector button and said PITA is longer sitting in front of him. Rafa shouldnt think that whining at Hicks like he did with Moores will produce the desired result. Hicks expects to see results.

I don't know where you get your information from mate, but I don't think Rafa is "whining" and I certainly don't think Hicks opts out of speaking to the board.

If you care to follow the exchange you would realise we have been discussing his recent actions in his Dallas hockey team.

On the whining issue, Rafa is a senior football manager and he should act like one. If he has an issue the place to discuss it is in the club or at worst in the boardroom, not in front of the world´s media so that little :censored:

from the small club across the park can take the :censored:

.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:56 pm

Reg wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:My point was that years ago Moores didnt fire Souness, Evans nor Houllier soon enough and their bitching spoilt the team spirit and off the supporters. Hicks meanwhile doesnt even speak to his board, when he´s heard enough he just presses the ejector button and said PITA is longer sitting in front of him. Rafa shouldnt think that whining at Hicks like he did with Moores will produce the desired result. Hicks expects to see results.

I don't know where you get your information from mate, but I don't think Rafa is "whining" and I certainly don't think Hicks opts out of speaking to the board.

If you care to follow the exchange you would realise we have been discussing his recent actions in his Dallas hockey team.

On the whining issue, Rafa is a senior football manager and he should act like one. If he has an issue the place to discuss it is in the club or at worst in the boardroom, not in front of the world´s media so that little from the small club across the park can take the .

Cheery.

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